Opeth's Last 3 Albums Have Been Fantastic
- Thread starter DiscipleofTruMetal
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wankerness
Member
It's most of it, with a band like Opeth. I do pay attention to the lyrics, and I think the lyrics are good on everything after morningrise (including damnation and deliverance). BUT, I think the VOCALS on deliverance aren't as good as the previous cds either! His growls sound way weaker than they do on Blackwater Park (especially on WREATH, most obviously on that really long screech before the solo). But yeah, I have listened to a lot of Opeth songs VERY CLOSELY A GREAT MANY TIMES as a result of tabbing them, and I think that the ones I can still enjoy after tabbing them (April Ethereal, When, The Leper Affinity, Moonlapse Vertigo, Closure, Bleak, A Fair Judgement) are the ones that are probably actually the better songs, while The Drapery Falls and Wreath just...don't do it for me anymore. I'm sick of them!estimate said:
Most of the stuff on Deliverance never even did it for me in the first place...I guess the acoustic stuff on the title track and By the Pain I See in Others isn't the flowing melodic stuff I'm used to from their previous albums...it sounds very harsh and mechanical. The riffing itself on those songs isn't very interesting IMO either, besides the intro on BTPISIO. Then MASTER'S APPRENTICES or whatever it's called is good once it gets to that part where the vocals go really high, but man that intro is lame. Anyway, what the heck are you talking about "prejudge?" It's not like I decided the outro to deliverance repeated too much before I heard it! I always HATED it on the cd, but then when I saw them play it live it was the coolest thing ever to experience. However, then when I got back from the show loving it and listened to the cd, it was once again way too long and stale. 
rjf385
UNDERGROUND!
i really think that damnation is a really good album even thou it's more mellow than anything but it's still really good.
MetalManCPA
Papa Opeth
For the past several weeks, I've had my Opeth catalogue MP3 CD in my car, and have been playing the songs at random. I really wanted to get a feel/comparison between their works prior to BWP, and the 3 albums you allude to in this thread.
I also listened to their entire catalogue in chronological order prior to seeing them in concert a couple of weeks ago.
MY THOUGHTS (personal - no need to flame about peoples tastes)-
Blackwater Park continues to be my #1 favorite album by any band. And as far as Opeth songs go, my top 6 are:
#1 - The Drapery Falls
#2(tied) - Closure and Deliverence
#4 - The Funeral Portrait
#5(tied) - Bleak, Windowpane
See where my tastes lie?
As I've been cycling through Opeth songs at random, I just feel their older works are a tad (and I do stress a tad) emptier than their more current works. There are still amazing songs, amazing transistions, mesmerizing moments throughout their catalogue. I can pick several songs off of each album that easily compare to the current albums. But I just feel, in the bigger picture, that their more recent works are deeper and more complete. It's definately partially due to production. It's hard to deny that the production on BWP and beyond is cleaner than the older stuff. And I know for many, cleaner production means the original feel of the band has been stripped away, thus, I feel that's why many of the older listeners cling to the older stuff.
What I find surprising is how anybody can label any album by Opeth "boring". I would say that person is truly not an Opeth fan. Nothing "boring" about anything that's Opeth (IMHO).
On a sidenote, the more I listen to Opeth, the harder time I have labelling them "metal". They have so many more mellow works. And even when Mikael is growling away, many of those songs still have a softer feel in the background - not a heavy/fast/distorted metal feel. Opeth is just Opeth - never duplicated, tough to compare, and they stand on their own.
I also listened to their entire catalogue in chronological order prior to seeing them in concert a couple of weeks ago.
MY THOUGHTS (personal - no need to flame about peoples tastes)-
Blackwater Park continues to be my #1 favorite album by any band. And as far as Opeth songs go, my top 6 are:
#1 - The Drapery Falls
#2(tied) - Closure and Deliverence
#4 - The Funeral Portrait
#5(tied) - Bleak, Windowpane
See where my tastes lie?
As I've been cycling through Opeth songs at random, I just feel their older works are a tad (and I do stress a tad) emptier than their more current works. There are still amazing songs, amazing transistions, mesmerizing moments throughout their catalogue. I can pick several songs off of each album that easily compare to the current albums. But I just feel, in the bigger picture, that their more recent works are deeper and more complete. It's definately partially due to production. It's hard to deny that the production on BWP and beyond is cleaner than the older stuff. And I know for many, cleaner production means the original feel of the band has been stripped away, thus, I feel that's why many of the older listeners cling to the older stuff.
What I find surprising is how anybody can label any album by Opeth "boring". I would say that person is truly not an Opeth fan. Nothing "boring" about anything that's Opeth (IMHO).
On a sidenote, the more I listen to Opeth, the harder time I have labelling them "metal". They have so many more mellow works. And even when Mikael is growling away, many of those songs still have a softer feel in the background - not a heavy/fast/distorted metal feel. Opeth is just Opeth - never duplicated, tough to compare, and they stand on their own.
seems that wankerness and moonlapse have nailed it, for me at least. while we may disagree on a particularly favorite album (mine is my arms, your hearse), i mirror those sentiments about deliverance being too repetitive. i gave it an honest listen and felt that many of the songs, the title track especially, drone on to the point of irritation. there are some good moments, but overall i think that the band could have made a better album if the recording conditions were better. i understand that conditions during the deliverance/damnation sessions were unfavorable, so i still hope that the new disc will be as good as we expect. still, wouldn't that be nice if dan swano produced the next one?
estimate
Code
wankerness: Of course I disagree with some of your statements, and I agree with some of 'em. But I see now that it's all about taste, man. (Find it shocking that you don't like the deliverance-ending thought, it's awesome for me, as a drummer.)
wankerness
Member
Cause after all, real fans like everything by a band regardless of what it sounds like.MetalmanCPA said:
TheFourthHorseman
In The Twilight World
MetalmanCPA said:
You know, whatever. Wreath is boring.
The last few minutes of Deliverance are boring. Still, personal tastes and all...but not that I care in this case what you'd say I truly am not and I'm just clinging to stupid little things anyway.Don't really agree about the "not metal" comment...even Mike is being careful not to make people think that Damnation is what they're always doing as he always separates it from the rest of their work. All the other albums are definitely metal to me...ok this just yells Captain Obvious.
Still, I don't really understand the whole "soft feel under the heavy parts."Somehow the latest three just don't catch my attention as much...well ok I started naming BWP songs that I've listened to lately and then noticed I had named most of them, so I suppose I listen to that one quite a lot anyway.
Something still feels that's not so great in songs like Dirge For November...well, whatever. Deliverance is just different. The songs actually got old and I don't feel like listening to most of them at all...which kinda sucks. Damnation is bit of an oddball...I definitely like many of the songs but I've pretty much just ignored the album after some time.Still, I have high hopes for the next ones since they're gonna take the time with the writing process.
@Estimate: Peace bro. My comment was a bit stupid. What am I supposed to ask myself though?
And still, it feels like they lost something after Still Life...Godhead's Lament is just...*awe*.
MetalManCPA
Papa Opeth
Demilich
Remember
the alumnus said:
fuck YES, though I don't think they like his production so much. some guy said he asked mike about crimson 2 and mike said it sounded like shit.
Reign in Acai
Of Elephant and Man
Reign in Acai
Of Elephant and Man
TheFourthHorseman said:You know, whatever. Wreath is boring.
You're boring.
TheFourthHorseman
In The Twilight World
~sigh~
So now that the Nevermore board rejected you you decided to come and act like an idiot here? You just said that it's a matter of personal preference, and then you criticize me for my personal preference. I'm starting to think you're Profånity's fake account.
So now that the Nevermore board rejected you you decided to come and act like an idiot here? You just said that it's a matter of personal preference, and then you criticize me for my personal preference. I'm starting to think you're Profånity's fake account.
estimate
Code
It came out a bit wrong. And it was also a bit stupid. Let's just agree on the great fact, that musical taste is individual. Even if it's within a little band.TheFourthHorseman said:
Reign in Acai
Of Elephant and Man
TheFourthHorseman said:
Alright I apologize. You just angered me by saying you didn't care for some parts I truly love. I'll try and have more restraint next time bro. And no i'm not profanity's fake account. If he has one that is.
Vehemens
The Wayfarer
Well, I've never thought Still Life was so great. In fact, it's probably my least favourite album as a whole. 'Deliverance' was the first song I ever heard by Opeth, and you can't tell me I didn't think it was 'intricate' and 'emotive'. Personally I think the emotions portrayed in it by the clean parts "Walk with me..." and the screaming parts "All over now..." are much clearer to be understood than on Still Life or My Arms Your Hearse. To me, those albums are close to being unable to be understood. You talk about concepts? The only way I knew there was a definite concept was by reading about it. Yes, I got a general idea that there was something going on just by reading the lyrics, but I couldn't understand what it was exactly.
Also, Blackwater Park and Deliverance are, in my opinion, heavier than the others. The riffing, while not the same style, is definitely heavier. Double guitar harmonies are awesome, but I just don't think they sound very 'heavy' in a sense of the word.
When it comes to talking about progressions/transitions from heavy to clean in particular, there are more smoother changes on Blackwater Park and Deliverance. In Morningrise and My Arms Your Hearse the changes don't seem to be very smooth - the style changes a bit too radically at times.
This topic is a bad one to be debated as it revolves purely around peoples' opinions. Here's my opinion on the subject:
Blackwater Park and Deliverance (not including Damnation here) are overall a bit simpler and less-complex. Does that make them "subpar"? No. In terms of topics/concepts, they are easier to be understood by people just getting into Opeth. Does that also make them "subpar"? Hell no. It makes them better. If you were looking for something specifically a bit simpler and less-complex, but wanting something Opeth, then these albums fill the spot.
Damnation is also a very good album, one of my favourites. For a while when I was feeling down it was the CD that got played the most. If I'm in that state of mind I like to listen to music that in some way portrays the same emotions that I'm feeling, and so I listened to songs like 'In My Time Of Need' and 'Hope Leaves', and 'To Bid You Farewell'. That song is one of their best.
This argument does not have a clear "They're worse" or "They're better" answer. It's all about opinions.
Also, Blackwater Park and Deliverance are, in my opinion, heavier than the others. The riffing, while not the same style, is definitely heavier. Double guitar harmonies are awesome, but I just don't think they sound very 'heavy' in a sense of the word.
When it comes to talking about progressions/transitions from heavy to clean in particular, there are more smoother changes on Blackwater Park and Deliverance. In Morningrise and My Arms Your Hearse the changes don't seem to be very smooth - the style changes a bit too radically at times.
This topic is a bad one to be debated as it revolves purely around peoples' opinions. Here's my opinion on the subject:
Blackwater Park and Deliverance (not including Damnation here) are overall a bit simpler and less-complex. Does that make them "subpar"? No. In terms of topics/concepts, they are easier to be understood by people just getting into Opeth. Does that also make them "subpar"? Hell no. It makes them better. If you were looking for something specifically a bit simpler and less-complex, but wanting something Opeth, then these albums fill the spot.
Damnation is also a very good album, one of my favourites. For a while when I was feeling down it was the CD that got played the most. If I'm in that state of mind I like to listen to music that in some way portrays the same emotions that I'm feeling, and so I listened to songs like 'In My Time Of Need' and 'Hope Leaves', and 'To Bid You Farewell'. That song is one of their best.
This argument does not have a clear "They're worse" or "They're better" answer. It's all about opinions.
I like hearing people's thoughts on this. I heard Still Life first, liked it, but it wasn't until Deliverance that I got totally hooked. Go figure. I'm probably an exception on this.
Personally, most of the repetition in Deliverance works for me (except middle sections of Wreath and Deliverance). I find the opening of Masters catchy, gaining power as it repeats, and the end of Deliverance and Fair Judgement hypnotic and worthy of repetition. In contrast, I get bored by the repetition of heavy riff in Melinda (though everything else about the song's brilliant) and the middle melody of April Etherealm for example. Go figure. All in all, I think Opeth have good instincts about when an idea gains or loses power through repetion.
Though I love all the albums, I think the last three have the best songwriting in that (besides the flow of part to part, which has been commented on by others) each individual song stands alone as a distinctive composition from the others. Each song has its own different particular feel and soundscape, and plays a unique role in the arc of the whole album, whereas with the other albums the songs blend together more and sound a bit more samey. For example, I could almost immediately distinguish the songs on BWP and Deliverance from one another, even if you started at a random spot in any song, after a couple listens, but it took me much longer to reach that point with MAYH and Still Life.
Some exceptions to this are Night and the Silent Water, the Moor, and Moonlapse Vertigo, and the mellow songs, which immediately grabbed me as being the most cohesive and distinctive and flowing of their era.
My 2 cents anyway.
Personally, most of the repetition in Deliverance works for me (except middle sections of Wreath and Deliverance). I find the opening of Masters catchy, gaining power as it repeats, and the end of Deliverance and Fair Judgement hypnotic and worthy of repetition. In contrast, I get bored by the repetition of heavy riff in Melinda (though everything else about the song's brilliant) and the middle melody of April Etherealm for example. Go figure. All in all, I think Opeth have good instincts about when an idea gains or loses power through repetion.
Though I love all the albums, I think the last three have the best songwriting in that (besides the flow of part to part, which has been commented on by others) each individual song stands alone as a distinctive composition from the others. Each song has its own different particular feel and soundscape, and plays a unique role in the arc of the whole album, whereas with the other albums the songs blend together more and sound a bit more samey. For example, I could almost immediately distinguish the songs on BWP and Deliverance from one another, even if you started at a random spot in any song, after a couple listens, but it took me much longer to reach that point with MAYH and Still Life.
Some exceptions to this are Night and the Silent Water, the Moor, and Moonlapse Vertigo, and the mellow songs, which immediately grabbed me as being the most cohesive and distinctive and flowing of their era.
My 2 cents anyway.
Scourge of Malice
Member
I always wonder if a different band released Deliverence and Damnation, you would probably be all over it. Just cause it has Opeth's name on it you feel the need to critique. If they stayed the same style every album I would be bored to hell of them. They change their style like many bands and in their case its working just fine. Deliverence is a great album to thrown on when you want to get pumped and rock out like a mad man. Still Life is a great album to thrown on when you wanna lay down and get sucked in to it. All their albums are A+ in my opinion. But opinion is opinion. I still think many of you arent giving it a chance and just disliking it to remain elite and old school. Let it take you in.
wankerness
Member
NO, I would NOT be all over them if they were released by a different band, in fact I probably wouldn't have even bought them (deliverance and damnation...I would have gotten blackwater park cause it's good). I'm not trying to be OLD SKOOL, I just don't like repetition. Sometimes it bugs me on the old cds too, like that part towards the end of April Ethereal with the weird off rhythms and the sliding octaves. Just not NEARLY as often as it does on deliverance. Poo. Opeth isn't even my favorite band, the fact of the matter is I DON'T LIKE DELIVERANCE AND I'D PROBABLY LIKE IT LESS IF OPETH HADN'T RELEASED IT!Scourge of Malice said:
Vehemens
The Wayfarer
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