It doesn't matter if they're good, it matters if you worked hard to make the best you can. If they're your best, you wouldn't somebody ripping them apart. It makes you feel like shit. It makes you feel like you can't follow your ambitions, and you're incapable of doing what you love to do. It's not a good feeling.
Opeth's lyrics, on a whole, suck. Badly.
- Thread starter Schraiber
- Start date
It doesn't matter if they're good, it matters if you worked hard to make the best you can. If they're your best, you wouldn't somebody ripping them apart. It makes you feel like shit. It makes you feel like you can't follow your ambitions, and you're incapable of doing what you love to do. It's not a good feeling.
So I guess we just shouldn't criticize things that suck then, as long as they tried their best, right?
Also I don't think Mike's lyrics "suck" for the most part. They're kinda inconsistent though, I'd say they range from below-average to very good.
I don't listen to Opeth to hear pretensious(sic?) words written by a person who thinks he Shakespear or some modern Poe. Who gives a fuck if the lyrics aren't what some would think of as poetry? This is a METAL message board and forum, not a local coffee shop with stage where people read non-sensical bullshit who have an over-inflated sense of self-importance or intelligence. Big deal. Oh, yeah. Paul Simon called and he wants his gimmick of being a musical poet back.
Wow I guess most of us can make better Opeth music than Opeth...... nice.
I'd like to see some expert poetry from the original poster of his own.
Oh wait, no I wouldnt because it would probably suck.
I'd like to see some expert poetry from the original poster of his own.
Oh wait, no I wouldnt because it would probably suck.
calx
New Metal Member
Originally posted by Darkness Falls
Wow I guess most of us can make better Opeth music than Opeth...... nice.
I'd like to see some expert poetry from the original poster of his own.
Oh wait, no I wouldnt because it would probably suck.
Yeah, you're not allowed to criticize something if you can't do it better.
Stupidest argument ever.
I don't think Mikael would win many poetry contests, but the lyrics compliment his vocal style and they go well with the tone and the mood of the music. After all, they're musicians, not poets. As such, they should be judged according to what they try to achieve: music. As a whole, their product is great. Taken on their own, probably very few of the individual pieces that go into making Opeth's music are absolutely astounding - but the magic is in the fact that the product becomes something greater than the sum of its parts. IMO.
Nefilim
Rotten undead buccaneer
Actually, I think perplexion is a "real" word. At least Mike didn't invent it. Just search for it on google or something, you get quite a lot of hits.
demon talented
enduring iconoclast
The lyrics to Blackwater Park's title track chill the fuck out of me, poetic or not. For me the lyrics are all about the feelings they bring out of the listener and the music itself more so than trying to sound fancy or "poetic". For instance, revoke my metal badge if you will but I love Nirvana. Still, some of the more abstract lyrics in their songs at times are almost painful to listen to. Many times what is meant to sound thought provoking just sounds fucking retarded when you try too hard to sound intelligent or obscure or whatever the hell you think you're going to accomplish.
I have read this thread with a little humor.
First off, I think that the lyrics to the Opeth tunes are just that... lyrics, not poetry. The lyrics come closest to free verse poetry, which by the majority is regarded as non poetry...at least in my experience.
The main thing to me is that the words fit the music, and there is the bottom line I think. If one thinks they suck, well okay.. to you they suck.
I know that english is Mike´s second language, and I know how hard it is to write in another language, especially lyrics. I know this from personal experience as I live in Germany, and do not speak german natively.
But here is the most important question you have ask here..... do YOU like the music? If the answer is yes, all else is moot.
First off, I think that the lyrics to the Opeth tunes are just that... lyrics, not poetry. The lyrics come closest to free verse poetry, which by the majority is regarded as non poetry...at least in my experience.
The main thing to me is that the words fit the music, and there is the bottom line I think. If one thinks they suck, well okay.. to you they suck.
I know that english is Mike´s second language, and I know how hard it is to write in another language, especially lyrics. I know this from personal experience as I live in Germany, and do not speak german natively.
But here is the most important question you have ask here..... do YOU like the music? If the answer is yes, all else is moot.
Bleakest Harvest
\m/Misanthropic Hippy\m/
brightoffski
Abstraction of I
It has already been mentioned, but the session diaries show that Mikael doesn't spend any length of time constructing technically sound poetry, perfect english etc, nor does it seem he wants to.
I agree that is silly to critique Opeth lyrics this way when a lot of the time they clearly form more resemblence to a lyrical stream of conciousness. They are written to be accompanied by the music and in that sense I think they are, for the most part, great!
I agree that is silly to critique Opeth lyrics this way when a lot of the time they clearly form more resemblence to a lyrical stream of conciousness. They are written to be accompanied by the music and in that sense I think they are, for the most part, great!
Elysian Blaze
The Blade
Yeah, "Hate Song" really is a poetic tour-de-force.
Also, to the gentleman who ripped Dirge For November and Bleak: How can you dismiss lyrics just because they are based on something trite? Granted, suicide and murder aren't the most original topics to discuss, but as even you said, they are better than most. So, why not just leave it at that? Give credit where credit's due.
And lyrics are simply subjective, anyway. What's inane babble to some is the key to life for others. Schraiber thinks that the lyrics suck: so what? Why get all up-in-arms about it? If they [the lyrics] speak to you, more power to you. I, for one, happen to love the lyrics of "Bleak", "Dirge For November", and "White Cluster". But, I also know that some people don't.
Just my thoughts.
Opeth are great there lyrics are very good
Orchid is great "open your soul, redeem i am immortal" an inspiring lyric that off apostle.
I guess Lyrics, poems are all in the eye of the beholder.
I enjoy all of opeths lyrics and i think BWP wasnt that bad Bleak was done well and so was Dirge for November
Orchid is great "open your soul, redeem i am immortal" an inspiring lyric that off apostle.
I guess Lyrics, poems are all in the eye of the beholder.
I enjoy all of opeths lyrics and i think BWP wasnt that bad Bleak was done well and so was Dirge for November
About the 'making words up' thing - even if he had, so what? Famous/"good" poets make up words all the time. in fact, word-invention is a big part of a lot of poetry (modern, anyway)
demon talented
enduring iconoclast
To be fair, in the rare instances words are made up, they are usually made up for things where there is no expression.
In this case, "perplexion" should simply be perplexity, as it's the noun form of perplex.
SculptedCold
-scented manbeef-
Umm, for someone who sounds so clued-up on the english language, it's strange that you say this, because it's irrelevant and essentially wrong. Language by definition is a function of contexts, and is subject to infinite interpretations due to it's intrinsic ambiguities. That's why so much poetry and literary work is read and appreciated subjectively by the vast majority of it's readers, but the modern theory behind linguistic work shows conclusively that the function of the author in conveying a 'message' or 'meaning' is completely nonexistant. Yes, we can delve into an author's biography to try and find extrinsic meaning, but it is literally impossible for any one reader to recapture either the precise meaning or feeling of the author's original intent, hence the modern focus on the study of meaning through interpretation of the language as a socio-historical phenomenon; a phenomenon of contexts within language, society, other works, and by no means the author. Mikhail Bakhtin, Roland Barthes and Michel Foucault are probably the most interesting writers of the subject.
In this light, Mikael's lyrics really are just lyrics. Technically, almost none of it could be called poetry (in a literary sense; it could be considered modern freeform poetry, but that's generally regarded with no artistic merit, it's 'pop' culture if you will) but as it stands, they're fucking great I think. I agree with previous statements that they are engineered to fit with the music; the imagery they provoke could not be more fitting, but I think as far as 'meaning' goes, the best you'll get is a vague moral idea. Mikael's writing is for aesthetic and aesthetic only. (the emotions are an aesthetic also, but in Opeth's case, the aesthetic of catharsis isn't used in any search of meaning)
Somebody should have shed this light on Rolling Stone before they dissected Kurt Cobain's heroin-induced lyrics that didn't make a lick of sense, God rest his soul. He probably didn't remember half of what he meant when he wrote it either if it ever meant anything. Probably his idea of a joke.
I like what Fudge Tunnel said inside one of their albums. "None of the lyrics on this album mean anything. So don't even bother."
I like what Fudge Tunnel said inside one of their albums. "None of the lyrics on this album mean anything. So don't even bother."
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