Orchestral/Female Fronted Metal Mix (Eddy & Lasse reamps, Plec master)

[Ermz]

Hey guys,

Did this one at the end of last year. The CD still isn't out, believe it or not, but the band and their management company have released one single, which you can hear here: http://www.intromental.org/music/divineascension.mp3

I don't remember too much about it now, as I've done a few records since then, but I'm working on something musically similar at the moment and it triggered the memory.

Anyway, hope you dig. This track has a very 'commercial' arrangement to it, so I recall automating quite heavily in order to get the flow between verses and choruses right.

Thanks to Eduardo Apolonia for the 5150 III rhythm reamps, Lasse Lammert for the 5150 leads and Plec for the master.

 

[Ermz]

Aw, not enough breakdowns?

 

[Nuno Filipe]

The snare gets lost in the mix, the bass is too loud and the guitars low IMO.

 

[Uros]

Snare is cool level-wise, what are you talking about...The bass is too fucking loud at times, indeed. Could make the rhythm guitars a tad more loud. Not too loud though, this is not a death metal track. I like vocals!

Now something a little off-topic - Ermz, I find that on a lot of your mixes the drums are sounding pretty same-ish. They always sound competent of course, but IMO you could benefit from using different colors (samples, equing), and not always going for the same color, but different shades, so to speak.
A little disclaimer - of course, I am not trying to teach you how to do your own job, just a couple of suggestions.

 

[Soundlurker]

The mix is fine but the chick isn't...that's probably why you're not getting great feedback

 

[grywolf627]

Other than wishing the guitars were just a little brighter, I love this. Fantastic work Ermz!

 

[lordofthestring]

Sounds huge, great job. Sure if I were to be picky I'd say either the guitars need to go up a tad or just have a little more presence. Though in my experience, when you have a composition that great and with a good vocalist, no one really notices the imperfections of other instruments involved.

 

[Ermz]

Thanks guys.

Plec and I made the call to lower the guitars in order to have the orchestration and vocals more audible. The songs and the arrangements were quite chaotic and busy at times, so something had to be traded off for a bit of clarity. The bass.... had old strings, so there was no tightness to be had there sadly.

 

[Mago]

I downloaded that song when you posted about them putting it up I think, and have listened to it quite a bit.
A bit strange with this band, normally I'm not as much for that kind of vocal style, but she keeps a nice balance and doesn't go too much on the opera side.
Really nice music non the less.
Mixwise I think to hear that you for sure had a hard time mixing that one
Arrangement of the song is a bit strange with the fast refrain at the end, but I like it.


Drums are one of my favs from you soundswise, that's why I'd like to have them a bit louder, both snare and kick are really low
Also like the guitars, and due to them beeing quite dark they orchestra is audible quite good, even if I'm freaked out by the loud vocals when the harmomies kick in and the loud orchestra parts at times.
They sit on the mix rather then in it.
But I guess your average listener would have a hard time tom make out what the keys are doing if they aren't in your face.
I also hear a bit of an off balance stereo wise with the vocals on the last refrain, maybe its the panning of the harmonies or something that is strange for me...

Really nice work overall, and I guess most of my comments are just my personal taste. I'd get that album if it would be out

 

[Dollarosa]

Agree with above comments, drums could be raised a little and vocals pulled down.

Don't like the vocals (melodies are very boring and don't like the tone of her voice), also the doubling effect on her vocals stands out too much.

 

[Ermz]

It's a good call, Mago. To date this is still the hardest record I ever mixed. By the end I was relying on automation for half the mix balancing, simply because there is so much going on. This is one of the simplest songs on the album, so you don't get a complete picture of the 'progressiveness'.

Not sure if I'm on board with all the 'drums are too low' comments. I never once felt that way when mixing, and I still hear the drums quite fine here. If you're comparing it to a modern metal record with no orchestration, of course they will seem lower, simply because they're competing with so much other information. I automated the kicks down a fair amount during double kick sections because I didn't want this to sound too 'metal'. The whole idea was to maximize commercial appeal. Hence, vocals up, guitars down.

Anyway, thank you all for taking the time to listen.

 

[Uros]

Yeah, drum levels are totally fine imo. I guess that a lot of dudes here have developed a habit of listening and evaluating everything with modern metal production values in mind, hence the comments as snare too low, or kick too low etc.
No presetz plz!

 

[Nuno Filipe]

^ so most of people that replied here are deaf? The snare is very low in certains parts, mostly with double kick parts. The bass being too loud is eating the snare at times.

 

[Mago]

This is one of the simplest songs on the album, so you don't get a complete picture of the 'progressiveness'.

Wow the album must contain quite some automation madness in that case

I guess that a lot of dudes here have developed a habit of listening and evaluating everything with modern metal production values in mind, hence the comments as snare too low, or kick too low etc.
No presetz plz!

So you would mix this with what in mind? Modern Jazz production or...?
After all the production HAS a modern metal sound, so louder drums would also fit in there. Not as loud as on a chugga chugga bree bree production, but they could be louder without destroying anything by going on a less commercial appeal IMO
But again, also the vocals are too loud for my tastes, but as Ermin stated, commercial appeal was the goal so the mix is on spot for that point.

 

[Backe]

the strings all the attention at times. kick could use some moar balls!

 

[Morgan C]

Ermz, I find that on a lot of your mixes the drums are sounding pretty same-ish. They always sound competent of course, but IMO you could benefit from using different colors (samples, equing), and not always going for the same color, but different shades, so to speak.
A little disclaimer - of course, I am not trying to teach you how to do your own job, just a couple of suggestions.

+1
I'm afraid when I first heard this mix I thought I'd heard it before. There's not much else I can say :/ It's still a great mix.

 

[Uros]

@Nuno, Mago: I'm just saying what I see around these parts a lot. Not every mix has to be dominated by snare that smacks to oblivion.
Imo, this particular song relies much more on melodies in the main vocal and orchestral parts, so again imo, snare that is upfront would have totally sounded unfit for this, and that's why I don't have any problem how Ermz has solved it here.

 

[Ermz]

I have to say, it's a little shocking to hear that this mix sounds 'samey' to some of you. Is there any mix in particular it sounds alike to?

This record was the debut of a lot of new stuff for me, and when I first listened back the first thing that struck me was how different it sounded to anything I'd done before.

It debuted some kick samples I'd never used before. First time I used the Distressor and DBX160 on kick/snare in a mix. First time I mixed something so orchestration and automation heavy. First time tape saturation played such a significant role in my mixes. First time we used Eddy for reamps. Only time I've dealt with a bass tone that changed from song to song because you could hear the strings aging etc.

Maybe there's some aesthetic factor I'm overlooking.

 

[Behind]

I have to say, it's a little shocking to hear that this mix sounds 'samey' to some of you. Is there any mix in particular it sounds alike to?

This record was the debut of a lot of new stuff for me, and when I first listened back the first thing that struck me was how different it sounded to anything I'd done before.

It debuted some kick samples I'd never used before. First time I used the Distressor and DBX160 on kick/snare in a mix. First time I mixed something so orchestration and automation heavy. First time tape saturation played such a significant role in my mixes. First time we used Eddy for reamps. Only time I've dealt with a bass tone that changed from song to song because you could hear the strings aging etc.

Maybe there's some aesthetic factor I'm overlooking.

I agree with the drums sound being very similar to other mixes made by you.

IMHO, I think you have a very strict criteria in how certain things should sound, so it translates in similarities in your mixes. I mean, it doesn't matter which tool you use (distressor, dbx...). You have a certain sound in mind and you work to achieve it. The results then are similar to other works.

In any case, the mix sounds so fucking well that it doesn't matter. It helps to appreciate all the elements and to transmit the feelings of the music. Good job!

 

[Fbarre]

I think the mix suits the song, arrangement and style of the band. I wouldn't change anything about it at all. Great work! What's the name of the song?