Orchestral metal.. Yes or no?

[Pudge7]

you missed the point I think. I was talking about metal with classical music elements in its structure, I wasnt talking about Orchestras taking over the metal structure. I was talking about metal in which there is some symphony in order to make it more scary, lively, happy or whatever.
Like dimmu borgir, Tvangeste, Therion (not really, there are more classical music elements in there than metal in the last 5 albums) , rhapsody, Savatage in some songs, my songs .

I think this is a good topic for discussion since there is so much confusion in metal nowadays.

my bad...im illiterate...all i mean to say is thats its an ok idea as long as they dont go overboard with the classical shit

 

[The Antihero]

(Except for Dream Theater's last live CD, that one was awesome).

I freaking LOVED that disc. I get chills every time with the opening strains of Metropolis. kick-ass.

 

[Matt]

Dream Theater is quite awesome.

 

[AceRoccola]

Hollenthon is a stunning example of how well a metal band can work with orchestral elements. Celtic Frost put the horns to great use more than once in their day. And of course Therion, one of the most notable metal bands to blend themselves into an orchestra. Therion can miss, but when they get it right it's immense.

A string quartet accompaniment can also work very well, as opposed to a full on symphony orchestra or brass/string section. On Arcturus' La Masquerade Infernale for example.

 

[MetalAges]

I agree with many here on that it depends on how well it is done (I don't care what band it is, just how well it is done in conjunction with the music).

As much as many people dislike the cheese of Rhapsody, if you would listen to Symphony of Enchanted Lands II, the Dark Secret, you would hear (in my opinion) the perfect melding of orchestra and metal. They've always touted themselves as "Hollywood music score metal" or whatever it is, but that album really lives up to it ten fold. It helps that there's a real orchestra playing. Christopher Lee's narration lends to the vibe ofthe album as well (and that dude can sing!).

I also really like bands such as Mechanical Poet who remind me of what it sounds like it Danny Elfman were to make a metal album.

I also really enjoyed the tune I heard by Dimmu Borgir (Progenies of The Great Apocalypse?) and thought it was high up there on perfection.

Nightwish have really started kicking it up with their last couple as well.

Symphony X's The Odyssey was killer as well.

 

[SheisMySin]

I think the combination is awesome if done right.

Nightwish
Great Kat
Savatage

Classical music alone has some very heavy elements...metal just gives it that extra oomph to make you feel what the composer wanted in the first place.

 

[Alcapoth]

No no, Saviour Machine is not doom or even metal much at all, so don't get that into your head or you will be disappointed. Saviour Machine is difficult to define, but it has classical, rock, opera, and gothic influences. Once you hear SM, it's very obvious that VB took major influence from them, which they have even said themselves. I'm just saying that as far as composition and vocals go, SM comes out on top, in my opinion.

Yeah, they stated on their My Space that their music sounds similar to Saviour Machine among other particular bands such as My Dying Bride.

Also, I checked out Saviour Machine's My Space and paid very close attention to all the songs that were featured. I really enjoyed the music a great deal and I think it'll only grow on me the more I listen to it. I can see some of the influence these guys had on VB, but honestly, they're more different than I had originally anticipated I think. VB to me is more classically driven as well sounding more epic as a whole. Well, just judging from what I have heard thus far. I do acknowledge, however, that some of the more rockish/gothic soundscapes heard in SM (especially regarding piano and other subtle, atmospheric moments found in the songs) are very reminiscent of VB's Sombre Romantic album in particular -- it's not like some rip-off, or anything like that. I found the performance of the vocalist to be quite admirable. Hehe, I'll always favour London for his dynamics and sheer power (also, the more operatic approach to his voice) but there's just no denying Clayton's talent.
I know I may be a tad bit biased here, but in the end I definitely do prefer VB's music (I guess it doesn't help the matter since I have been listening to VB for years now and only recently have discovered Saviour Machine.) But hey, I'm a SM fan now so there's obviously room for both.

It wasn't my intention to have this appear like a review of the band; and I know it sounds like that. Just expressing some of my thoughts/opinions.

Anyway, thanks for mentioning them. I'll have to check out their albums now, so if you wish to recommend me anything feel free.

 

[Matt]

Symphony X's The Odyssey was killer as well.

Indeed, though not as killer as some of their previous albums. Paradise Lost is coming out soon and it will pwn, hopefully.

 

[Susperia]

Used to love it... Not so much anymore.

I'm much more austere now when it comes to music... I love Traditional, Doom and Black Metal for its simplicity.

 

[CAIRATH]

I've heard this concept fail a lot more often than I've heard it succeed so I'd have to say "no" in general. It's not physically impossible to pull it off properly, but even then I don't really see myself listening to it much. It very quickly adds a certain pompousness to the music that metal just doesn't need in my opinion.

 

[Scarifier]

Virgin Black; the PINNACLE of all that is classical metal. Period. There's just no arguing it. People, mark my words when I tell you that this WILL, surely, become the best album of 2007.

For anyone that's interested in classical and doom/black metal, this here is recommended for you;

http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=55462238

[/end of Virgin Black frenzy]

Thanks for the link, i just realised they are playing with Astriaal here in March for the Arcturus shows

Haggard is a good band to listen too in vein of this thread.

 

[Alcapoth]

Thanks for the link, i just realised they are playing with Astriaal here in March for the Arcturus shows

Haggard is a good band to listen too in vein of this thread.

I desperately, DESPERATELY would like to go to these shows. But I'm afraid it is absolutely impossible for me to do so...I hear VB are stunning in a live environment.



Oh yeah, this isn't really metal...but...

ELEND

Jesus almighty, ELEND!!!! Very well just may be the greatest piece of music I have heard. I have known about them for a while, but only just NOW have I actually devoted my generous time to this fascinating band (dare I even say band?)
I have shut the lights completely off (pitch dark) and cranked my surround system so loud and have since become a changed person. I honestly believe this is the single, most VIOLENTLY EVIL and TERRIFYING album I have ever, EVER heard. Beautiful. Operatic. Epic. Grand. Stunning. Angelic. Haunting. My god, these are all just words that may or may not describe this group but dammit, you can never quite realize until you expereince it as I did. I'm so glad I finally indulged myself.

Yes, this excitement is coming from someone who has just experienced hell in the context of the most beautiful classical music I have heard. I embrace this a great deal, but also am aware that many may not like it as it's VERY difficult to listen to.

 

[NinjaGeek]

I have to be in the right mood for it, but when I am it's amazing.

 

[Cul-Kothoth]

How can you not love when bands incorparate orchestra or symphonic elements when so many bands do it so well. Therion, Bal-Sagoth, Nightwish, Turisas, Rhapsody, plus many more. The idea that through expanding the music insperation you could create an epic and atmospheric sound is something that more bands should look into.

 

[Hatebreeder]

Metal itself is based on a vague combination of blues and classical elements, so denouncing orchestral metal is hypocrisy!

I love orchestral metal. I have my metallic roots in it.

 

[Matt]

How can you not love when bands incorparate orchestra or symphonic elements when so many bands do it so well. Therion, Bal-Sagoth, Nightwish, Turisas, Rhapsody, plus many more. The idea that through expanding the music insperation you could create an epic and atmospheric sound is something that more bands should look into.

Agreed. Epicness ftw.

 

[WNxScythe]

I just wish that these bands would stop use crappy sythesizers (BM anyone?) to get their "orchestral" sound. Seriously. Hire a session musician to play violin/cello/whatever, or use professional level "virtual orchestra" software.

 

[J.]

Profanum, people. Profanum. Surprised they haven't been mentioned.

Profanum Aeternum - Eminence Of Satanic Imperial Art
Musaeum Esotericum

Two great classical albums with black metal vocals.

For the blending of guitars and classical elements, get their Flowers Of Our Black Misanthropy album.

 

[Gordy_gorestained]

Yes, metal+classical=musical brutality.

 

[Demilich]

To all of you saying shit like "It depends on how well it is done!"

Do you realize how stupid you sound? Doesn't your enjoyment of ANY music depend on how well it is done?

Its not like anyone is coming in here and saying "I love poorly executed orchestral metal! Man, where can I get me some of that SHIT music?"