Out of tune when downtuning? Intonation?

[abyssofdreams]

When you downtune (I have tuned my guitar to C Standard) is it impossible to tune the strings dead on the note?

I have each string on the note when hitting but immediately bouncing up to +15/-15 cents on either the flat/sharp side. This gets better with the higher strings...

I have 012 Earnie Balls on it, so I hope the strings are thick enough.
Also, how much do you tighten screws on the bridge for intonation when downtuning?

Is it normal that the notes get out of tune when I hit the strings very hard?

 

[Ermz]

The guitar tech that's modding my Hellraiser told me that the break angle after the bridge plays a significant part in holding tuning on the lower strings. So you may want to check out whether your strings break too hard after the bridge. It's not a perfect instrument though. Some of the appeal of downtuning a non-baritone is that laundry rope 'dwahhh' sound.

 

[Genius Gone Insane]

The guitar tech that's modding my Hellraiser told me that the break angle after the bridge plays a significant part in holding tuning on the lower strings. .

This never made a lot of sense to me, but....then again, you are ... very ... small.

 

[abyssofdreams]

the break angle? interesting... now how am I supposed to influence that?

 

[gorath23]

You should be able to get pretty close by altering the intonation. My Hellraiser has near perfect intonation in C# after I set it up properly.

 

[Kazrog]

I recently had to adjust the truss rod as well as the intonation on my guitars after switching to lighter gauge strings in low tunings. If you're not experienced doing this, have somebody at a shop do it for you (preferably a luthier who knows what they're doing.) Most guitars ship out of the factory either a) set up for E standard tuning with 09's or b) not set up at all!

Sounds like your guitar has bowing in the neck, in which case you will need to get truss rod adjustment done as well as intonation.

 

[Keessi]

how big are the lowest strings? I'd use a 60-something set with standard C for sure.

 

[Genius Gone Insane]

Oh, and to answer the original question: I've never played a perfectly intonated downtuned standard guitar. I would go 7 string or baritone for better tuning. And if not, then at minimum, I'd use real thick strings as stated above.

 

[JBroll]

If you're going up and down 15c you're hitting too hard for that string and the massive vibration is changing the tension dramatically, causing you to be out of tune because there's too much tension on the string while it's vibrating that hard.

Gauges, scale, other setup information?

Jeff

 

[Aaron Smith]

If you're going up and down 15c you're hitting too hard for that string and the massive vibration is changing the tension dramatically, causing you to be out of tune because there's too much tension on the string while it's vibrating that hard.

I've always felt like this situation was more of a technique issue as well. Even with a pretty loose down-tuned E-string, it's possible to still give it a good solid sounding swipe of the pick without drastically affecting the tension. I think thinner picks definitely aid in this situation, but even with a thicker pick, you just need to loosen up your wrist and/or your grip on the pick.

 

[JBroll]

You can lighten up your playing, sure... and having lighter strings will move the 'sweet spot' to a less intense attack. If you hit any string too hard it goes sharp, it's just much easier to do with lighter strings...

Jeff

 

[TomAwesome]

If you're going up and down 15c you're hitting too hard for that string and the massive vibration is changing the tension dramatically, causing you to be out of tune because there's too much tension on the string while it's vibrating that hard.

Gauges, scale, other setup information?

Jeff

That's pretty much what I was going to say. It might not be a bad idea to get it set up anyway, though.

 

[covil]

have you ever tried ghs baritone strings?? I had the same problems you do with my esp viper. I´ve been trying lots of diferent strings on my guitar, tunning the trussrod and height of the strings ,wich helped a bit, but still i wasn´t happy!! So the other day i was at the store and read that the core of ghs baritone is thicker than regular strings with the same thickness! I´ve tried them and it helped increasing the atack and the sustain of the full cord disonating less than all the others i´ve tried!!
Hope it helps!!
by the way my regular tuning is D G D etc...

 

[abyssofdreams]

I'm not sure if Baritone strings aren't damaging a non-Baritone guitar?

 

[TomAwesome]

I can't think of any reason why they would cause any damage.

 

[Splat88]

Make sure you adjust the truss rod before you mess with intonation!

 

[Disconnekt]

How much should the neck be bowed for minimal buzz/good intonation, or should it be perfectly straight?

 

[TomAwesome]

Just a very slight bow. Put a capo on the first fret, fret the string at the 17th fret, and look the distance between the 8th fret and the string. There should be just a tiny bit of space there. After you adjust the truss rod and the action, pick the strings on every fret to make sure they ring out properly without excessive fret buzz.

 

[Andy Sneap]

fret the first fret and at the same time fret with your right hand where the neck meets the body, you'll see just how much play there is in the neck by how much of a gap there is between the string and frets. Provided your neck isn't twisted or any odd frets, you should be able to get it flat. Alot of this issue is down to technique. Make sure you are striking down through the string as opposed to pulling the strings. Also, make sure you are fretting right behind the fret and not pushing down hard on the fret board.

 

[Genius Gone Insane]

Make sure you are striking down through the string as opposed to pulling the strings.

You are talking about your fretting hand here?