Should i tune my bass slightly flat?

[DigitalMetal]

Hi Ive just checked the intonation on my bass following this video:



And found something a bit odd, and am wondering if anyone can shed a little light / opinions

Im checking my 5 string ESP (Not LTD) Surveyor Bass and when i check the heavy B string and tune the harmonic then pluck the open note with my pick and it goes slightly sharp (just a couple of Cents) and then comes to a solid B as the note rings out.

So i presume thats ok and in tune.

Then if i play the first fret (C) it goes sharp and the comes back to C after a second and this seems to be the case for any of the fretted notes,

I play quite fast and aggressive , and im wondering if i should tune slightly flat so that the note i strike is in tune rather that the second after i play drifting into tune on the fretted note
Or am i just worrying too much?

The reason this whole thing has come about is that when i play with my band something doesnt sound quite right, my guitarist insists that his guitar is in tune (drop C) and he has just had a full setup done.

I just want to be 100% sure its not me thats the problem

Thanks!

 

[::XeS::]

Don't trust your guitarist....check his guitar yourself. Everytime I record a band I ask if the instruments are in good shape and intonated...everytime the answer is "yes of course!". When I check the instruments I never find an intonated one.
Anyway you're worrying too much...take note that also when you tune whit the hand on the tuners, the neck feel the pressure. I usually tune and check the note with nothing in contact with the guitar.

 

[Morgan C]

Yes, if you're playing fast and hard, the attack of each note will be slightly sharp, so either tune whilst playing hard and fast, or tune slightly flat. If you play a few long notes though, you may want to retune normally.

And/or you can autotune the bass afterwards.

 

[DigitalMetal]

Don't trust your guitarist....check his guitar yourself. Everytime I record a band I ask if the instruments are in good shape and intonated...everytime the answer is "yes of course!". When I check the instruments I never find an intonated one.
Anyway you're worrying too much...take note that also when you tune whit the hand on the tuners, the neck feel the pressure. I usually tune and check the note with nothing in contact with the guitar.

Thanks for your input guys,

I do suspect my guitarist isnt bang on but the chances of me being allowed to check are fairly small, but i might suggest we both tune with my TC polytune before playing rather than his el cheapo fender one and "we check together" to be sure.
I do tune without holding the tuners as i have notice the difference it makes, especially as a Low B is uber sensitive on my tuners the tiniest movement/pressure on the tuner make a sizable difference, make me wonder if you can get tuners with higher gearing to make less movement on the peg as you tun for ultra accurate adjustment.

Yes, if you're playing fast and hard, the attack of each note will be slightly sharp, so either tune whilst playing hard and fast, or tune slightly flat. If you play a few long notes though, you may want to retune normally.

And/or you can autotune the bass afterwards.

Sorry i failed to mention, this is for live playing rather than recording so tuning for different circumstances isnt exactly an option or autotuning but do you think i should tune slightly flat for live playing?

 

[Sloan]

I always check notes along the neck when tuning up and tune so that they are mostly all in tune.

 

[amarshism]

if its hard and fast stuff sometimes youre better off tuning to the attack rather than decay

 

[AEL89]

if its hard and fast stuff sometimes youre better off tuning to the attack rather than decay

Yep. The most frustrating thing is watching a musician play a note and tune it after its decayed for about 3 minutes.

 

[hurdy]

There is a very amatuer mistake in this bass intonation tutorial video
He has not advised the viewers to TUNE ALL STRINGS before checking the harmonic vs fretted note
Also, check that all strings are still in tune after every saddle adjustment
Adjusting one saddle can affect the other strings tuning (as the neck tension changes, I guess)

 

[crillemannen]

Don't trust your guitarist....check his guitar yourself. Everytime I record a band I ask if the instruments are in good shape and intonated...everytime the answer is "yes of course!". When I check the instruments I never find an intonated one.
Anyway you're worrying too much...take note that also when you tune whit the hand on the tuners, the neck feel the pressure. I usually tune and check the note with nothing in contact with the guitar.

Hahaha so fuckin true People can't intonate for shit, and even though the instrument is intonated it is likely gonna sound flat and out of tune somewhere on the neck. ANd don't get me started on the fuckin G string on a guitar. Always sound flat

 

[::XeS::]

Fuck G string.
Anyway you use a polytune and I've noticed that it's a very sensitive tuner and if you tune using the "single string" mode you have to wait many seconds (untill the note doesn't move anymore) to view the right note on the display. In fact the polytune mode is quicker than the single string mode so in polytune you read immediately the right note whereas you have to wait a little bit in single.

 

[crillemannen]

and pretty much all Les Paul models (ESP, Gibson whatever) always goes flat (especially droped tunings) when the pick hits the string to get back in tune a couple of miliseconds later. Really funny right...

 

[gabriel g.]

tuning is a bitch

 

[DigitalMetal]

Thanks everyone,

Last night we played a show and I tuned to the attack of the note and fretted at various points down the neck 1st 3rd 5th 7th 9th 12th frets to get a good average and it felt good.

The real test will be when we are back in the rehearsal studio when i can hear my guitarist a little better than on a stage.

Cheers for all of you input, tuning is indeed a bitch

 

[OctoberRust]

I think not only tuning's the problem but also playing style. Even if your instrument is correctly intonated, if you hit the string very hard, the tone will be flat or become flat if the note rings a little. If you play hard, let's say, just 16th notes - and you tuned to the hit of the string - it will sound fine. But if you mix some longer notes in there, they will become flat. If you are going to play a mix of short and long notes in a song , you have to balance this variety out in your playing style, not hitting too hard or soft. It's a compromise for the sake of tuning.
Especially with bass, the dynamic range is so huge, if you hit a full note very hard it sounds a bit like a divebomb. Guitars don't have this big dynamic range, so on such occassions they just won't sound in tune.

 

[TaylorG]

and pretty much all Les Paul models (ESP, Gibson whatever) always goes flat (especially droped tunings) when the pick hits the string to get back in tune a couple of miliseconds later. Really funny right...

Guitar player here.

While I agree that most players cannot intonate to save their lives, depending on tuning, technically speaking, you can't intonate it properly across all frets and strings.

Someone even developed a fretboard to get over these problems.

True Temperament

I can usually get it very good from frets 1-12, but beyond that gets a bit trickier. And most cheaper guitars wont have the bridge adjustability to do it.



Not excusing out of intonation guitars where some chords are so flat or sharp that it's pathetic, but perfect intonation isn't always going to happen.

The best intonation happens at the tuning of E standard. Unless your neck scale length is longer than 25.5".

and pretty much all Les Paul models (ESP, Gibson whatever) always goes flat (especially droped tunings) when the pick hits the string to get back in tune a couple of miliseconds later. Really funny right...

That's to do with string gauge. Not the guitar.

I run baritone strings on my non-baritone guitar to stop that from happening.

 

[Uros]

Under "baritone strings" you mean higher string gauge?

 

[TaylorG]

Under "baritone strings" you mean higher string gauge?

Indeed.

The thicker the string, the more tension you get.

When you drop your tuning, you're loosening off the strings, and losing tension. So to combat this; heavier strings.


Your average every day guitar will come with a set that goes from .009 - .042.
Generally set up for E standard. The scale length will be between 24.75" (Les Paul, Strat, etc.) and 25.5" (Tele, most ESP guitars, PRS guitars @ 25.00", etc.).

On my ESP LTD MH-1000 (25.5" scale), I run .014 - .068 strings. Usually in drop B. This will restore the tension lost caused by lowering the tuning.
I absolutely cannot stand playing an open B and it resonating at a C until it settles down.
I also have a very hard pick attack, which will only further make this worse.

 

[if6was9]

I always tune to the attack rather than the decay for this reason and when recording get everyone to do the same for consistency, works pretty well.

I usually give guitars a once over before recording, people rarely bring in a well set up instrument and alot of cheaper tuners like the Boss and behringer ones aren't quite as accurate as you'd expect so even if the guitars were set up at home it might not always have been a good job.

 

[Brandon E.]

Tighter strings won't go as sharp when you wail on them, there isn't really any other solution than heavier strings or playing softer

 

[JeffTD]

People also really, really overlook the importance of a well-cut nut when it comes to intonation, especially on cheaper guitars.