no country for old wainds
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Overrated "Classics"
- Thread starter Planetary Eulogy
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Tonight's Bonus Pick: Judas Priest Painkiller
Want to know the secret of convincing everyone that a mediocre album is great? Do like Judas Priest and bookend it with 2 decades of utter shit and anything not completely dreadful suddenly seems like genius in comparison.
When Painkiller was released in 1990, it followed a series of dismal records that saw Judas Priest devolve into first into a parody of itself, and then into a parody of early 80's Queen. In the years following its release, Rob Halford was replaced by Tim "Ripper" Owens, inaugurating an era in the venerable band's history that is perhaps best simply forgotten. In the middle of an otherwise unbroken string of suck, anything remotely interesting and slightly musical would seem great. And Priest delivers remotely interesting and slightly musical. Unfortunately, they forgot to deliver anything else.
What Painkiller purports to be is a back-to-roots return to form for the band that almost single handedly drove metal forward in the years after the collapse of Black Sabbath into drug-addled schlock. What it actually turns out to be is a group of middle aged men who have churned out a tribute album to themselves. Painkiller is a reasonable facsimile of classic Priest, just without the spirit or the intelligence that made Priest classic in the first place. The lyrics are godawful, and while, by this point, this was par for the course for Priest, it's still disappointing to get crap like "Leather Rebel" and "Metal Meltdown" from the men who gave you "Beyond the Realms of Death" and "Epitaph."
More frustrating, however, is the way that Priest sought to return to the style of their roots while abandoning the substance. What made Priest great in the early days was their relentless pursuit both of excellence and a way forward. Priest in the 70's was a constantly striving and evolving affair, and by pretending that they could recapture their glory days by mimicking them a dozen years down the road, Judas Priest only managed to demonstrate how obsolete they had become.
Want to know the secret of convincing everyone that a mediocre album is great? Do like Judas Priest and bookend it with 2 decades of utter shit and anything not completely dreadful suddenly seems like genius in comparison.
When Painkiller was released in 1990, it followed a series of dismal records that saw Judas Priest devolve into first into a parody of itself, and then into a parody of early 80's Queen. In the years following its release, Rob Halford was replaced by Tim "Ripper" Owens, inaugurating an era in the venerable band's history that is perhaps best simply forgotten. In the middle of an otherwise unbroken string of suck, anything remotely interesting and slightly musical would seem great. And Priest delivers remotely interesting and slightly musical. Unfortunately, they forgot to deliver anything else.
What Painkiller purports to be is a back-to-roots return to form for the band that almost single handedly drove metal forward in the years after the collapse of Black Sabbath into drug-addled schlock. What it actually turns out to be is a group of middle aged men who have churned out a tribute album to themselves. Painkiller is a reasonable facsimile of classic Priest, just without the spirit or the intelligence that made Priest classic in the first place. The lyrics are godawful, and while, by this point, this was par for the course for Priest, it's still disappointing to get crap like "Leather Rebel" and "Metal Meltdown" from the men who gave you "Beyond the Realms of Death" and "Epitaph."
More frustrating, however, is the way that Priest sought to return to the style of their roots while abandoning the substance. What made Priest great in the early days was their relentless pursuit both of excellence and a way forward. Priest in the 70's was a constantly striving and evolving affair, and by pretending that they could recapture their glory days by mimicking them a dozen years down the road, Judas Priest only managed to demonstrate how obsolete they had become.
Christie_fell
Oh, the pain.
*braces for battle*
It'd be interesting to read, though. Do it.
EDIT: I was referring to Demilich.
It'd be interesting to read, though. Do it.
EDIT: I was referring to Demilich.
Jean-Pierre
Son of The Bitch
"Painkiller" is my favourite song of all time. I've listened to it for like, fucking 6 years now, and to this day I have never gotten sick of it in the least. EVER.
no country for old wainds
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Christie_fell said:
How can he do Nespithe when it's one of his favourite metal albums?...
I thought my Painkiller suggestion would appeal. :Smug:
no country for old wainds
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Christie_fell
Oh, the pain.
DiscipleOfPlato
The Observer
Yes! Painkiller pales in comparison to their earlier works so egregiously that it befuddles me how often masterworks like Stained Class and Sad Wings of Destiny are overlooked by the younger generation. Anyone who peers no further than Painkiller doesn't know what they're missing.
Jean-Pierre
Son of The Bitch
Too true. While their 70's work is the best, Painkiller still owns, and owns hard.DiscipleOfPlato said:
byrne
Certavi et vici
your opinion is more derivative than anything death ever produced. symbolic may not be the innovative brilliant release 'fanboys' would have you believe, but it craps on seven churches as an album that absolutely fucking slays. seven churches is mediocre at best, scream bloody gore is leaps and bounds ahead of it, as is morbid visions (and a host of about 10,000 other albums)
overrated classics: transylvanian hunger.
overrated classics: transylvanian hunger.
Today's Pick: Suffocation Pierced From Within
With the passing of time, I find myself increasingly wary of received opinion, of what "they" say. Many factors have contributed to my personal cynicsm, but I have no doubt that part of it results from the fact that "they" say that Pierced From Within is one of the great masterpieces of death metal. As usual, "they" are full of shit.
Suffocation is one of those bands that everyone name drops; but I have a hard time believing many people actually listen to them (the Pixies of death metal?). I suspect a few people keep their records on the shelf for the same reason others keep the phone number of that black dude they once smoked up with in college. "I'm not racist, I listen to Suffocation!" Beyond the dubious originality of their work (much of their style is derivative of Morpheus Descends and Baphomet), Suffocation have always suffered from the common flaw of most second tier bands; they're fucking boring.
In this respect, Pierced From Within is no different. Spinning this disc leaves no doubt that you're dealing with a group of highly competent, professional musicians, they execute archetypal American "technical" death metal with ease, stuttering and chugging and changing direction with a casual flare. It's death metal as science. Unfortunately, what they forgot was the art. Underneath the precision and the expertise lies nothing but tepid pit fare. In the grand populist tradition, this is music for motion, music for your toes, your fingers, your neck. It's not music for the mind or the heart. Where Pierced From Within succeeds is as a statement of violant alienation and rage at a world gone mad. And even this aspect isn't fully realized, as much of the power and punch are sucked out by studio vampire Scott Burns' trademark sans testicles mix. The truth is, there's nothing terrible here (other than the mix), but if you're looking for thunderous, rhythmic death metal with real vision, this isn't it. You're far better off with Into the Grave or The Erosion of Sanity.
With the passing of time, I find myself increasingly wary of received opinion, of what "they" say. Many factors have contributed to my personal cynicsm, but I have no doubt that part of it results from the fact that "they" say that Pierced From Within is one of the great masterpieces of death metal. As usual, "they" are full of shit.
Suffocation is one of those bands that everyone name drops; but I have a hard time believing many people actually listen to them (the Pixies of death metal?). I suspect a few people keep their records on the shelf for the same reason others keep the phone number of that black dude they once smoked up with in college. "I'm not racist, I listen to Suffocation!" Beyond the dubious originality of their work (much of their style is derivative of Morpheus Descends and Baphomet), Suffocation have always suffered from the common flaw of most second tier bands; they're fucking boring.
In this respect, Pierced From Within is no different. Spinning this disc leaves no doubt that you're dealing with a group of highly competent, professional musicians, they execute archetypal American "technical" death metal with ease, stuttering and chugging and changing direction with a casual flare. It's death metal as science. Unfortunately, what they forgot was the art. Underneath the precision and the expertise lies nothing but tepid pit fare. In the grand populist tradition, this is music for motion, music for your toes, your fingers, your neck. It's not music for the mind or the heart. Where Pierced From Within succeeds is as a statement of violant alienation and rage at a world gone mad. And even this aspect isn't fully realized, as much of the power and punch are sucked out by studio vampire Scott Burns' trademark sans testicles mix. The truth is, there's nothing terrible here (other than the mix), but if you're looking for thunderous, rhythmic death metal with real vision, this isn't it. You're far better off with Into the Grave or The Erosion of Sanity.
Spirit In Black
In Rapture, I'm Reborn
Into the Grave? haha that cd can't touch anything by suffocation...and I for one have listened to this and other suffocation cds hundreds of times as well as morpheous descends and baphomet....suffocaction's still might not be completely unique but they wrote downright better songs and riffs than those other two bands....then again I enjoy "music of for motion" and don't need to listen to only artsy bands
anonymousnick2001
World's Greatest Vocalist
Saturday Bonus #1: Kreator Coma of Souls
After crashing the thrash party in the mid-80's with a series of groundbreaking releases that pointed the way forward toward the extreme metal to come (Endless Pain, Pleasure to Kill and the Flag of Hate ep), Kreator finished the decade in a creative slump, with Terrible Certainty and Extreme Aggression showcasing a band grown complacent and artisitically stagnant. By 1990, it was clear that Kreator was a band in search of an identity.
Coma of Souls clearly represents the attempt to forge that new identity, the band's goal apparently being to demonstrate a "mature" and "sophisticated" sound. What they actually succeeded in demonstrating was that their creative cupboard was bare.
Rather than forging ahead, Kreator reversed course to the mid-80's, splicing together Ride the Lightning/Master of Puppets era Metallica with their own furious approach. The result is a collection of awkwardly constructed songs, pointless intros and bridges and the sort of preachy political lyrics that impress pseudo-intellectual high schoolers but no one else (especially atrocious is "People of the Lie; I suppose that such anti-fascist sentiment might have required a courageous stand in the Germany of 1940, but in 1990, it's a bit like a 25 year old standing outside his closet yelling "Fuck you Bogeyman!"). Lot's of riffs here, but no need for them. These are at heart simple, basic songs, and they would have been better served by editing out some of the superfluous riffs and letting the songs simply be anthemic (instead of trying and failing in a stab at epic). As it is, it just sounds tired and thoroughly played out.
After crashing the thrash party in the mid-80's with a series of groundbreaking releases that pointed the way forward toward the extreme metal to come (Endless Pain, Pleasure to Kill and the Flag of Hate ep), Kreator finished the decade in a creative slump, with Terrible Certainty and Extreme Aggression showcasing a band grown complacent and artisitically stagnant. By 1990, it was clear that Kreator was a band in search of an identity.
Coma of Souls clearly represents the attempt to forge that new identity, the band's goal apparently being to demonstrate a "mature" and "sophisticated" sound. What they actually succeeded in demonstrating was that their creative cupboard was bare.
Rather than forging ahead, Kreator reversed course to the mid-80's, splicing together Ride the Lightning/Master of Puppets era Metallica with their own furious approach. The result is a collection of awkwardly constructed songs, pointless intros and bridges and the sort of preachy political lyrics that impress pseudo-intellectual high schoolers but no one else (especially atrocious is "People of the Lie; I suppose that such anti-fascist sentiment might have required a courageous stand in the Germany of 1940, but in 1990, it's a bit like a 25 year old standing outside his closet yelling "Fuck you Bogeyman!"). Lot's of riffs here, but no need for them. These are at heart simple, basic songs, and they would have been better served by editing out some of the superfluous riffs and letting the songs simply be anthemic (instead of trying and failing in a stab at epic). As it is, it just sounds tired and thoroughly played out.
Planetary Eulogy said:
While both bands formed in the same year of 1990, Suffocation released their "Reincremation" demo a year before Morpheus Descends (who were under the name of Morpheus at the time) recorded any material. Immolation also contributed as one of the founding fathers of NYDM.
Lies and Perfidy
Gentleman of the Road
So basically, this thread = "Hey speed metal fans, you suck!"
Go away, Morny. You've lost your touch.
Go away, Morny. You've lost your touch.
Doomwatcher said:
And Suffocation's first demo sounded like what was coming out of Tampa at the time, not like what would become their "signature" sound.
Slayed Necros
Void
I find all of Falconsbane's reviews in this thread entirely apt. Especially for 'Pierced From Within', I never enjoyed anything by Suffocation.
For one Suffocation's music shits on Baphomet and Morpheus Descends. It is not nearly as primitive and outdated as those bands either. It is a lot more advanced does not have the 'NYC tough guy sound', it's just not similiar. Internal Bleeding sound like those two bands. Suffocation takes its sound and style from Slayer more so than Baphomet and MD. Suffocation is a heavier/ brutal thrash band with grindcore elements,blast beats,etc... which they probably got from Napalm Death and Carcass. Frank Mullen rode his bike and bought 'hell awaits' in a fucking storm. Suffocation was formed to take extreme's to another level,was formed because of that album. Yeah they have local influence's from the NY scene but essentially 'Slayer' is why they are here. Not because of Baphomet,Morpheus Descends. Suffocation from day one was ten times more than those bands. Suffocation is just as original and innovating as Immolation in the NYC death metal scene. Baphomet and Morpheus Descends never ammounted to shit. Metallica and Iced Earth are more innovating and less outdated then 'baphomet and 'MD' for christ sakes. Suffocation would have formed regardless of Baphomet and MD. If Baphomet and MD never formed Suffocation would have not sounded any different than they do. Suffocation would have never formed if Slayer never existed.
Suffocation takes their sound from 'Slayer' you can hear Napalm Death/ Carcass influence's second and 3rd.
Where Baphomet, Morpheus Descends were probably listening to Madball and Biohazard records making their music. Suffocation was listening to Slayer and extreme music. They essential all play DM but that does not make Suffocation similiar. They all formed around the same time, Suffocation's musical background and motive is a lot different. Suffocation has worn their own T-Shirts since day one, because they formed their own style, because they are the one and only 'suffocation'
Suffocation takes their sound from 'Slayer' you can hear Napalm Death/ Carcass influence's second and 3rd.
Where Baphomet, Morpheus Descends were probably listening to Madball and Biohazard records making their music. Suffocation was listening to Slayer and extreme music. They essential all play DM but that does not make Suffocation similiar. They all formed around the same time, Suffocation's musical background and motive is a lot different. Suffocation has worn their own T-Shirts since day one, because they formed their own style, because they are the one and only 'suffocation'
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