Well, since no one has said a thing about the fullshred, and you mentioned it- I'll say that I looove that pickup in my schecter. It's ridiculously versatile, has a much tighter bottom than the jb, and a more neutral midrange with a bit of a nasal vocal quality to it. It isn't as bright as the jb but has more high end, which makes for a little extra crunch. Honestly I wish I had another guitar to stick a jb in cuz I do miss the cutting lead sound, but the fullshred is a better all around pickup for me.
passive pickups which one to chose
- Thread starter mr.L.
- Start date
aramism
Member
i have different favorite pickups for different situations.
my favorite pickup USED to be the dimarzio evolution which i have on my ibanez rg tuned to C natural...
they are loud as fuck. they have the greatest range of harmonic overtones that i've ever heard even on a bad amp. through my mesa road king forget it. the sustain is immense and it really is overwhelmingly loud but not loud in the light of an x2n of a duncan invader or a dimebucker, it's just very aggressive. it tends to get muddy for recordings but you have to really eq the crap out of it.
however i also love the steves special/ air norton combo on my Eb tuned gutiar for shred stuff and proggier things. it is probably the cleanest high output pickup ive heard. john petrucci used it for like 15 years on all his live and recorded material. it balances perfectly with an air norton which is hands down my favorite neck pickup.
notice how i said the EVO used to be my fav. i recently put in a dimarzio virtual hot paf into my ibanez sz tuned to dropped d and it really won me over. it's pretty low output wise, it's similar for those seymour fans to the SD 59.
its got that "lamb of god" attribute where its very vintage but very clear. i think its ANTI-DISTORTION in the sense that a lot of these high output pickups especially a lot of players who have pedals in front of high gain amps like kranks, and peaveys, and boogies you lost the actualy guitar. you don't hear pick attack you don't hear the string clarity. you hear distortion and bottom end and a lot of "eq"
with the hot paf i think it really maintains string clarity to the point where even on the modern channel of my road king you can hear the strings and the resonance of the gutiar i have which is a sz 4020 prestige. it's natural wood body and very very heavy weight wise so you can hear the "echo" through the guitar on palm muted stuff and it has that vintage singing quality that you heard from like jimmy page and duane allman and stuff. however it is kind of redone with more gain so its the best of both worlds. this pickup has turned me on to the idea of using lower ouput pickups with bite (not low output but specially designed hot low output pickups) with hi gain amps for my tone. i really dig it. like i said thats what lamb of god does and i love the way it sounds. its very tasteful in my opinion, especially if you have the chops to back it up.
but it is all a matter of preference. as far as high output pickups go, so many people love seymour so many people love dimarzio. i think for players that can really play the dimarzios take the cake. they have so much more character and color where as i find that emg's are rather lifeless and cold and the duncans are in between the dimarzios and emgs. the only duncans i like a lot are the 59 and the JB. i absolutely dislike emgs.
if you want power and a brittle metal ala slayer/metallica/zakk wylde tone go emg
if you want a little more character go seymour
if you want a lot more character and you play a lot of leads and whatnot a;a steve vai or paul gilbert go dimarzio
*dimarzio pups are excellent for metal but you have to eq them differently as they tend to be gobbled up with mids
my favorite pickup USED to be the dimarzio evolution which i have on my ibanez rg tuned to C natural...
they are loud as fuck. they have the greatest range of harmonic overtones that i've ever heard even on a bad amp. through my mesa road king forget it. the sustain is immense and it really is overwhelmingly loud but not loud in the light of an x2n of a duncan invader or a dimebucker, it's just very aggressive. it tends to get muddy for recordings but you have to really eq the crap out of it.
however i also love the steves special/ air norton combo on my Eb tuned gutiar for shred stuff and proggier things. it is probably the cleanest high output pickup ive heard. john petrucci used it for like 15 years on all his live and recorded material. it balances perfectly with an air norton which is hands down my favorite neck pickup.
notice how i said the EVO used to be my fav. i recently put in a dimarzio virtual hot paf into my ibanez sz tuned to dropped d and it really won me over. it's pretty low output wise, it's similar for those seymour fans to the SD 59.
its got that "lamb of god" attribute where its very vintage but very clear. i think its ANTI-DISTORTION in the sense that a lot of these high output pickups especially a lot of players who have pedals in front of high gain amps like kranks, and peaveys, and boogies you lost the actualy guitar. you don't hear pick attack you don't hear the string clarity. you hear distortion and bottom end and a lot of "eq"
with the hot paf i think it really maintains string clarity to the point where even on the modern channel of my road king you can hear the strings and the resonance of the gutiar i have which is a sz 4020 prestige. it's natural wood body and very very heavy weight wise so you can hear the "echo" through the guitar on palm muted stuff and it has that vintage singing quality that you heard from like jimmy page and duane allman and stuff. however it is kind of redone with more gain so its the best of both worlds. this pickup has turned me on to the idea of using lower ouput pickups with bite (not low output but specially designed hot low output pickups) with hi gain amps for my tone. i really dig it. like i said thats what lamb of god does and i love the way it sounds. its very tasteful in my opinion, especially if you have the chops to back it up.
but it is all a matter of preference. as far as high output pickups go, so many people love seymour so many people love dimarzio. i think for players that can really play the dimarzios take the cake. they have so much more character and color where as i find that emg's are rather lifeless and cold and the duncans are in between the dimarzios and emgs. the only duncans i like a lot are the 59 and the JB. i absolutely dislike emgs.
if you want power and a brittle metal ala slayer/metallica/zakk wylde tone go emg
if you want a little more character go seymour
if you want a lot more character and you play a lot of leads and whatnot a;a steve vai or paul gilbert go dimarzio
*dimarzio pups are excellent for metal but you have to eq them differently as they tend to be gobbled up with mids
I have to admit that I never have Slayer, Metallica, or ZW pop up first in the list of people that have amazing fucking tones. Then again, there is of course Nevermore, James Murphy, Machine Head, Napalm Death, Soilwork...
Jeff
JeffTD
Senhor Testiculo
This is the most absurd thing I've read on this forum.
We use the TS infront of the amps to get MORE clarity, and the pick attack is still VERY important.
Metal Overload
Member
- Sep 8, 2005
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JeffTD
Senhor Testiculo
I've never heard of anyone but CC (who has shit tone, anyways) running a distortion pedal into a Recto, 5150, etc.
I think that if he had meant distortion pedal he would have said distortion pedal and not TS. If you're using it because there isn't enough gain on those amps, then yes it may be superfluous, but around here you'll hear so much 'back off the gain, pick harder' that there won't often be an issue with that; furthermore, I don't see how you hear 'bottom end and a lot of "eq"' (unless, of course, you're JP22 using the eq to restore lost dynamics from too much compression) or even what that's supposed to mean. I'm with DSS3 there.
Jeff
Jeff
They use the distortion (a boss metal zone) as a clean boost. That setup is used by quite a few bands...off the top of my head, Malevolent Creation uses the same setup, and sounds killer.
Crowbar and Goatwhore use the MZ as an OD, too. Great tone.
Instead of buying only a pick up I've bought a new (or rather second-hand) guitar equipped with full shreds in both neck and bridge. So far I'm really liking them. Really tight bottom end and very nice vowel like mids. The neck pick up also sounds very good for cleans when switched to single coil :Smokin:.
Guys, what about the Screanim' Demon? I am in the same situation, of replacing the 498T from my LP, looking for a new pickup. I am looking for a very dynamic low-medium output with really tight low end. I dont ussually do solos. Good sound splitted would be a nice bonus 
I thought the Demon is a good choice, or maybe a Bareknuckle.
I thought the Demon is a good choice, or maybe a Bareknuckle.Woah...the most absurd thing you ever heard here? Thats like saying, "Humans have heads"...Woah thats the most absurd thing I ever heard
The guy is right. The more things you put inbetween guitar and amp....the more you lose the guitars distinct sound. Thats not an opinion. Its what happens
Also the higher the output on the pickup or any pickup that has a crazy eq curve or even a preamp like the 81 ...the more you mask the the guitar's characteristics
Thats not a bad thing. Some people want an overloaded preamp sound vs a cleaner guitar sound. A TS not only masks the guitar to a certain degree, it also masks the amps natural characteristics by smooshing its midrange.
If you were around when pickups were clean and pedal were scarce you would know what we're talking about
I'm going to contest a few of those - first off, the TS shaves off low end that fucks with the preamp gain and makes things into mush. If flab is your idea of the distinct sound of a high-gain guitar, then yes you may be losing that - but you're losing clarity when you have as much bottom as modern guitars do. You'll of course hear bitching all over about how the guitar is a midrange instrument - the TS is bringing that out.
Second, as far as pickups go the Super Distortion sounds like a PAF that got twice as loud all of a sudden. Output is a signal change, not necessarily an EQ change. By this logic, anything that has anything but a flat response is 'masking' the guitar's distinct sound and characteristics - bullshit! Find me one fucking thing that has a flat EQ curve and I'll show you something that doesn't mask the guitar's characteristics - and more than likely something that sounds like fucking shit too. Ever wonder why guitar-> hi-fi preamp and power amp -> hi-fi speakers sounds like shit? It's because the electric guitar's natural sound FUCKING SUCKS. Period. That's why guitar amps have less of a frequency response and such distinct curves.
Finally, pulling age is just bullshit - you can play clean guitar and no pedals and still get the same fucking thing. I started with jazz guitar, and I know what the traditional clean sounds are supposed to be - but those aren't the guitar's true characteristics, either, for the same reasons. Classic Fender amps are trebly as fuck because Leo was going deaf. Humbuckers were invented so pickups could shut the fuck up and not be noisy around anything that existed - ever. A solid chunk of wood used to be what changed the guitar's distinct sound. This is just ridiculous.
Jeff
Second, as far as pickups go the Super Distortion sounds like a PAF that got twice as loud all of a sudden. Output is a signal change, not necessarily an EQ change. By this logic, anything that has anything but a flat response is 'masking' the guitar's distinct sound and characteristics - bullshit! Find me one fucking thing that has a flat EQ curve and I'll show you something that doesn't mask the guitar's characteristics - and more than likely something that sounds like fucking shit too. Ever wonder why guitar-> hi-fi preamp and power amp -> hi-fi speakers sounds like shit? It's because the electric guitar's natural sound FUCKING SUCKS. Period. That's why guitar amps have less of a frequency response and such distinct curves.
Finally, pulling age is just bullshit - you can play clean guitar and no pedals and still get the same fucking thing. I started with jazz guitar, and I know what the traditional clean sounds are supposed to be - but those aren't the guitar's true characteristics, either, for the same reasons. Classic Fender amps are trebly as fuck because Leo was going deaf. Humbuckers were invented so pickups could shut the fuck up and not be noisy around anything that existed - ever. A solid chunk of wood used to be what changed the guitar's distinct sound. This is just ridiculous.
Jeff
aramism
Member
everyone is right in their own way. thank you phase by the way.
however all i was saying is that it is a matter of preference. a lot of players nowadays prefer to put a pedal (like a 808 or a ts9) in front of a very powerful amp to smooth out the tone. and on top of that they have very high output pickups. as much as i like arch enemy, and nevermore, and andy sneap, ME personally prefer a more natural sound. while the output of a pickup is certainly the signal level it also indicates how easily an amp distorts. it pushes an amp to distort. i have 4 diff guitars with 4 diff pickups.
for exmaple one of mine is tuned to C natural and has dimarzio evolution pickups which are VERY HOT pickups. they are loud and obnoxious in a good way. great for leads and harmonics and all that fun stuff.
i also have a natural woody ibanez sz with dimarzio virtual hot paf. if i plug into my mesa road king with the same exact settings right after another they will sound very different. the evolution drives the amp a lot more. in the driving process you lose the string clarity and the sound is a lot more smooth and you have to roll back gain and "pick harder" as so widely proclaimed by the recording gurus here to get that clear defintion.
the virual hot paf is naturally very "grinding" and you can hear the string clarity and the picking it jumps up at you. just listen to any lamb of god album. particularly the ones produced by machine. you can hear the string clarity like a MOFO. they mainly track with mesa mark iv's but also for additional definition it is reamped with like very low gain marshall amps and orange and stuff. they use seymour duncan 59's which are very similar to the dimarzio virtual hot paf in overall characteristics.
point being that they have a less distorted tone. think about the word distortion. it distorts a signal to sound what we call, well, distorted. therefore the more DISTORTION the less pre-distorted signal. now if you take a lower output PUP and it doesn't distort the signal as much and you feed it into an amp and a good amp that pushes it, you are letting the amp distort the signal and hearing things more clearly.
the same "effect" can be achieved like someone said before by lowering the gain and picking harder but it is a substitute to IMO the best way to get a clean distorted sound.
an example of this substitute, to remove any mention of bands that people here talk about is a guy like nuno bettencourt who had very hot PUPs (bill lawrence 500) BUT his adamp1 settings were on very low gain. the result if you've ever heard a extreme song is a very very very very clean distorted tone. you can hear all the strings and all the notes but when he plays harmonics and palm muted stuff, which happen to be popular characteristics of "distortion" then it jumps out at you. once again similar effect, but reverse method. and by the way, even though i said he had very hot pups, they are more like the sh59's and paf pickups of the world but an extra stage up in the power category. they are still not at the level of emg's and whatnot. so even that makes my case stronger.
and about my case, im not saying one way is good and the other isn't and am not trying to sound absurd, but am just saying that lowER output pickups tend to give you a much cleaner and clearer distortion tone than with high output "shred your head" pickups which coupled with a powerful amplifier really mask the true signal and distort the crap out of it. that may be a good thing, or a bad thing. for me, its both. sometimes when i am playing arch enemy, i like that, but other times when i'm playing super tight stuff i like to play with lower output pickups so you can hear my guitar and string attack a lot more...
sorry for long post
ps (on edit)
dss3 i also think that a lot of metal players do what you do because its harder to get the "metal" tone via lower output pickups. the sound isn't as heavy or distorted. so in that sense you are right, but my argument was that my preference is a cleaner sound. i think heavy music isn't about the gain level or distortion but how it's played. that's why, like i said, i'm sure they are not fan favorites here, but i'll put up a band like lamb of god against any metal album just based on sheer playing attitude alone. the guitars are so much cleaner and less gainy than other bands, but since they are much cleaner and crisper, the manner in which they are played appeals to me more on a "heavy level"
however all i was saying is that it is a matter of preference. a lot of players nowadays prefer to put a pedal (like a 808 or a ts9) in front of a very powerful amp to smooth out the tone. and on top of that they have very high output pickups. as much as i like arch enemy, and nevermore, and andy sneap, ME personally prefer a more natural sound. while the output of a pickup is certainly the signal level it also indicates how easily an amp distorts. it pushes an amp to distort. i have 4 diff guitars with 4 diff pickups.
for exmaple one of mine is tuned to C natural and has dimarzio evolution pickups which are VERY HOT pickups. they are loud and obnoxious in a good way. great for leads and harmonics and all that fun stuff.
i also have a natural woody ibanez sz with dimarzio virtual hot paf. if i plug into my mesa road king with the same exact settings right after another they will sound very different. the evolution drives the amp a lot more. in the driving process you lose the string clarity and the sound is a lot more smooth and you have to roll back gain and "pick harder" as so widely proclaimed by the recording gurus here to get that clear defintion.
the virual hot paf is naturally very "grinding" and you can hear the string clarity and the picking it jumps up at you. just listen to any lamb of god album. particularly the ones produced by machine. you can hear the string clarity like a MOFO. they mainly track with mesa mark iv's but also for additional definition it is reamped with like very low gain marshall amps and orange and stuff. they use seymour duncan 59's which are very similar to the dimarzio virtual hot paf in overall characteristics.
point being that they have a less distorted tone. think about the word distortion. it distorts a signal to sound what we call, well, distorted. therefore the more DISTORTION the less pre-distorted signal. now if you take a lower output PUP and it doesn't distort the signal as much and you feed it into an amp and a good amp that pushes it, you are letting the amp distort the signal and hearing things more clearly.
the same "effect" can be achieved like someone said before by lowering the gain and picking harder but it is a substitute to IMO the best way to get a clean distorted sound.
an example of this substitute, to remove any mention of bands that people here talk about is a guy like nuno bettencourt who had very hot PUPs (bill lawrence 500) BUT his adamp1 settings were on very low gain. the result if you've ever heard a extreme song is a very very very very clean distorted tone. you can hear all the strings and all the notes but when he plays harmonics and palm muted stuff, which happen to be popular characteristics of "distortion" then it jumps out at you. once again similar effect, but reverse method. and by the way, even though i said he had very hot pups, they are more like the sh59's and paf pickups of the world but an extra stage up in the power category. they are still not at the level of emg's and whatnot. so even that makes my case stronger.
and about my case, im not saying one way is good and the other isn't and am not trying to sound absurd, but am just saying that lowER output pickups tend to give you a much cleaner and clearer distortion tone than with high output "shred your head" pickups which coupled with a powerful amplifier really mask the true signal and distort the crap out of it. that may be a good thing, or a bad thing. for me, its both. sometimes when i am playing arch enemy, i like that, but other times when i'm playing super tight stuff i like to play with lower output pickups so you can hear my guitar and string attack a lot more...
sorry for long post
ps (on edit)
dss3 i also think that a lot of metal players do what you do because its harder to get the "metal" tone via lower output pickups. the sound isn't as heavy or distorted. so in that sense you are right, but my argument was that my preference is a cleaner sound. i think heavy music isn't about the gain level or distortion but how it's played. that's why, like i said, i'm sure they are not fan favorites here, but i'll put up a band like lamb of god against any metal album just based on sheer playing attitude alone. the guitars are so much cleaner and less gainy than other bands, but since they are much cleaner and crisper, the manner in which they are played appeals to me more on a "heavy level"
JeffTD
Senhor Testiculo
Granted... I think we're coming from two way different places.
That said, and I think most people on here would tend to agree, those Lamb of God gats, while awesome sounding, aren't very heavy or brutal. Very twangy to my ears, actually.
That said, and I think most people on here would tend to agree, those Lamb of God gats, while awesome sounding, aren't very heavy or brutal. Very twangy to my ears, actually.
Skyweaver
Shred or Die !
heya DSS3
did you put that Mircle Man in ? I've heard some great things about the bareknuckle guys and interested to hear from someone whos bought one.
did you put that Mircle Man in ? I've heard some great things about the bareknuckle guys and interested to hear from someone whos bought one.
aramism
Member
exactly. that;s what i said repeatedly in my posts. in isn't heavy or brutal. but my taste is that heavy or brutal tone don't make heavy or brutal music. heavy or brutal playing make heavy or brutal music.
that's why the attitude of a band like lamb of god and their playing style i think is as heavy as anything. the sound is very twangy and clean but i like that.
and in my opinion, all i was saying was that to the orignal poster to try vintage hot pickups, like the dimarzio virtual hot paf, or the dimarzio virtual paf, or even a seymour duncan sh59 because they have much more attack and clarity and focus than any high output modern pickup. if you play the guitar style that is reserved for the emgs of the world on pickups that are reserved for the def leppards of the world it gives you cool sound. especially through a hot amp, like a mesa boogie, or a peavey 5150 etc. etc.
that is a fact that you can generate that clean tone, but it is my opinion that it is tasteful.
BY THE WAY, as a concluding note from me, my overall "gun-to-my-head" pickup that i would take with me on a stranded island would be the dimarzio steves special. it is in between high output pickups and vintage sounding ones in terms of tonal characteristics. even through a high gain amp the distortion is very clean sounding. if you just roll back on a gain a little it has the same characteristics as a hot country pickup or something like a sh59 or paf. it's a great pickup.
Skyweaver
Shred or Die !
I'm wrestling with this at the moment, it seems that my emg 81/85
( into 6505+) records rythm really well,
but when it comes to soloing it just doesn't sound right...If I do Miracle Man solo (zakk) then sure it does sound right, but when I do a lot of string skipping or sweeping it seems to be a nightmare - maybe its a technique issue
once I do the sweeping/skipping on lower output pup, whoa there it all is, clarity all the notes, its like the emg picks up everything (almost too much) and punishes you..
So is there a pup for rythm and pup for solo's ?
Sorry for the highjack but this is driving me nuts !
( into 6505+) records rythm really well,
but when it comes to soloing it just doesn't sound right...If I do Miracle Man solo (zakk) then sure it does sound right, but when I do a lot of string skipping or sweeping it seems to be a nightmare - maybe its a technique issue
once I do the sweeping/skipping on lower output pup, whoa there it all is, clarity all the notes, its like the emg picks up everything (almost too much) and punishes you..
So is there a pup for rythm and pup for solo's ?
Sorry for the highjack but this is driving me nuts !
Skyweaver
Shred or Die !
I'm probably going to sound like a prick for saying this, but that seems to happen a lot anyway - unless the pickup is physically leaping out of your guitar and attacking your strings, it is a technique problem. That is all.
Jeff
Jeff
