Paul's Fake Hair...
- Thread starter sixxswine
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The Grimace
New Metal Member
Ted that is the best post I have ever seen! 
Here are a few facts people:
KISS have never CLAIMED to have artistic integrity or be technical, they are are ROCK & ROLL band, not a heavy metal band. You CANNOT criticise a band for not being something they don't want to be anyway. That is like giving shit to a guitarist for not being good at drums. They couldn't give a shit about being artistically aclaimed, they are there to entertain rock n roll fans and they do that better than anyone. If you got a chance to see KISS on their 2004 tour they still fucking do it better than any other current bands do, even if they don't do it as well as they used to. Just because your idea of what music should be is different to theirs is no reason to criticise them, they achieve exactly what they want to achieve and more. Props to them for it.
Anybody who thinks KISS can only do "cheesy 3 chord music" has obviously only listened to the anthems and hits because with a 30 album catalogue there is ALOT more to KISS than that. The whole non-makeup era was made up of much more melodic, almost AOR-style at times pop-metal and melodic hard rock with great hooks and some killer guitars and very low-key on image with FAR smaller stage shows for the era than Bon Jovi, Motley Crue, Def Leppard & Poison even had. And whoever said Bruce's guitar playing sucked obviously hasn't even heard much. His solos during the '80s era are some of the most tasteful, fitting, melodic sounding hard rock solos recorded in my opinion. Anybody who thinks a solo has to be "challenging" to be good is a fucking twit, music is ALL about the SONGS no matter what you think. Great musicianship is NOTHING without a good song and the whole point of being a good musician is so it gives you the tools to make the songs sound as good as they can, Bruce did that perfectly, coming from a studio-musician background especially he was all about knowing how to find that perfect solo for the song. If not for using your musical talent to enhance the songs, having musical talent is about as useful as how many golf balls you can fit in your mouth. Music is about songs, not showing off an otherwise useless skill.
It just shits me when people look at 2% of KISS' fucking career (the few cheesy anthems they had hits with) and write them off and ignore the 30 fucking albums worth of great shit they wrote & recorded. Sure the original lineup weren't the best musicians in the world but Paul Stanley is a great vocalist & song writer and Ace is a rockin' and memorable guitarist (very much in the same league as Slash, not technical but has a certain great style), and the post-original lineup members are all top notch musicians as a band as big as KISS wouldn't hire anything less at that point in their career. But KISS are about more than guitar solos or how good the drummer is, who even gives a fuck about that anyway?!? It's about SONGS.
And as far as their image is concerned, unless a band's music is really bad (how come people bag KISS but praise Twisted Sister? TS couldn't play and could barely even write songs! Is it just because they are more "heavy metal" than KISS? Some metal fans can be such dicks sometimes I reckon) why should their image matter? Bagging a band for being image conscious is doing the EXACT same thing you are bagging - you are caring more about the image than the music and immediately dismissing the music because the band wants to put on a show to go with it, which I think every band should!
Do you know what music is? It's ENTERTAINMENT. I can't believe people forget that all the time, mainly metal fans. It's not a fucking school subject or a maths test where you have to prove your ability and get marked on it, its ENTERTAINMENT. If you play live and make the crowd happy and give them a good night, you have succeeded. You don't go to a concert with a fucking notepad and checklist, you go there to enjoy yourself. If you enjoy yourself, the band did its job. And guess what people - KISS make everybody enjoy themself at their shows, including people who went when I saw them last year that didn't even like KISS and always bagged them and changed their mind after having so much fun at their show and seeing what they are about!
Lighten the fuck up and take KISS for what they are - a fun ENTERTAINMENT band!!! If you bag them for not being more than that, you are a fucking idiot because they don't WANT to be more than that. If someone bagged me for being a bad painter they would be a fucking idiot because I'm not a painter and don't wanna be a painter so I would just laugh, its the EXACT same thing. Why don't you just enjoy them for what they are, and if that isn't your thing that's great too but don't bag them for it and most of all don't call their fans dumb or jackasses for it just because they look for something different than you. KISS fans don't think KISS are fucking Dream Theater, KISS fans love KISS because they want a big fun rock & roll spectacle and albums full of great catchy fun sleazy hard rock songs and KISS deliver that.
Have some fucking respect. Ever heard of opinions?? If you don't like something because its not what you're looking for in music, it isn't crap. I don't go posting on Morbid Angel or Testament threads bagging them just because I don't like them. If I don't like something I don't click on it and I let those who DO like it enjoy it because that's their thing, it just happens to not be mine. Why is it that people always have to treat KISS fans like such dickheads just because we prefer music that is fun & catchy than music which is a showcase for technical ability? (And before you say "It's because you buy all their merchandise" blah blah blah how would you even know? Most of my friends are KISS freaks and I only know one who collects their merchandise. Just because it is for sale doesn't mean we all buy it.)
PS. Excuse me if I'm being really blunt or rude but I'm really fucking drunk at the moment.
Here are a few facts people:
KISS have never CLAIMED to have artistic integrity or be technical, they are are ROCK & ROLL band, not a heavy metal band. You CANNOT criticise a band for not being something they don't want to be anyway. That is like giving shit to a guitarist for not being good at drums. They couldn't give a shit about being artistically aclaimed, they are there to entertain rock n roll fans and they do that better than anyone. If you got a chance to see KISS on their 2004 tour they still fucking do it better than any other current bands do, even if they don't do it as well as they used to. Just because your idea of what music should be is different to theirs is no reason to criticise them, they achieve exactly what they want to achieve and more. Props to them for it.
Anybody who thinks KISS can only do "cheesy 3 chord music" has obviously only listened to the anthems and hits because with a 30 album catalogue there is ALOT more to KISS than that. The whole non-makeup era was made up of much more melodic, almost AOR-style at times pop-metal and melodic hard rock with great hooks and some killer guitars and very low-key on image with FAR smaller stage shows for the era than Bon Jovi, Motley Crue, Def Leppard & Poison even had. And whoever said Bruce's guitar playing sucked obviously hasn't even heard much. His solos during the '80s era are some of the most tasteful, fitting, melodic sounding hard rock solos recorded in my opinion. Anybody who thinks a solo has to be "challenging" to be good is a fucking twit, music is ALL about the SONGS no matter what you think. Great musicianship is NOTHING without a good song and the whole point of being a good musician is so it gives you the tools to make the songs sound as good as they can, Bruce did that perfectly, coming from a studio-musician background especially he was all about knowing how to find that perfect solo for the song. If not for using your musical talent to enhance the songs, having musical talent is about as useful as how many golf balls you can fit in your mouth. Music is about songs, not showing off an otherwise useless skill.
It just shits me when people look at 2% of KISS' fucking career (the few cheesy anthems they had hits with) and write them off and ignore the 30 fucking albums worth of great shit they wrote & recorded. Sure the original lineup weren't the best musicians in the world but Paul Stanley is a great vocalist & song writer and Ace is a rockin' and memorable guitarist (very much in the same league as Slash, not technical but has a certain great style), and the post-original lineup members are all top notch musicians as a band as big as KISS wouldn't hire anything less at that point in their career. But KISS are about more than guitar solos or how good the drummer is, who even gives a fuck about that anyway?!? It's about SONGS.
And as far as their image is concerned, unless a band's music is really bad (how come people bag KISS but praise Twisted Sister? TS couldn't play and could barely even write songs! Is it just because they are more "heavy metal" than KISS? Some metal fans can be such dicks sometimes I reckon) why should their image matter? Bagging a band for being image conscious is doing the EXACT same thing you are bagging - you are caring more about the image than the music and immediately dismissing the music because the band wants to put on a show to go with it, which I think every band should!
Do you know what music is? It's ENTERTAINMENT. I can't believe people forget that all the time, mainly metal fans. It's not a fucking school subject or a maths test where you have to prove your ability and get marked on it, its ENTERTAINMENT. If you play live and make the crowd happy and give them a good night, you have succeeded. You don't go to a concert with a fucking notepad and checklist, you go there to enjoy yourself. If you enjoy yourself, the band did its job. And guess what people - KISS make everybody enjoy themself at their shows, including people who went when I saw them last year that didn't even like KISS and always bagged them and changed their mind after having so much fun at their show and seeing what they are about!
Lighten the fuck up and take KISS for what they are - a fun ENTERTAINMENT band!!! If you bag them for not being more than that, you are a fucking idiot because they don't WANT to be more than that. If someone bagged me for being a bad painter they would be a fucking idiot because I'm not a painter and don't wanna be a painter so I would just laugh, its the EXACT same thing. Why don't you just enjoy them for what they are, and if that isn't your thing that's great too but don't bag them for it and most of all don't call their fans dumb or jackasses for it just because they look for something different than you. KISS fans don't think KISS are fucking Dream Theater, KISS fans love KISS because they want a big fun rock & roll spectacle and albums full of great catchy fun sleazy hard rock songs and KISS deliver that.
Have some fucking respect. Ever heard of opinions?? If you don't like something because its not what you're looking for in music, it isn't crap. I don't go posting on Morbid Angel or Testament threads bagging them just because I don't like them. If I don't like something I don't click on it and I let those who DO like it enjoy it because that's their thing, it just happens to not be mine. Why is it that people always have to treat KISS fans like such dickheads just because we prefer music that is fun & catchy than music which is a showcase for technical ability? (And before you say "It's because you buy all their merchandise" blah blah blah how would you even know? Most of my friends are KISS freaks and I only know one who collects their merchandise. Just because it is for sale doesn't mean we all buy it.)
PS. Excuse me if I'm being really blunt or rude but I'm really fucking drunk at the moment.
Me raises hand. That would be me.Trixxi Trash said:
Thats OK you are my bud so I am not insulted. I am just glad you are back in full force.Trixxi Trash said:
BTW what are you drinking at the moment and were can I get some?
Hahaha sorry tiger! I just don't get the whole "it has to be hard to be good" attitude because to me its just whatever suits the song is best. I just think if you're not using your musical talent to make the overall sound & songs better then its a useless tool coz who cares how hard it is if its not serving some sort of purpose...
I'm drinking Jack Daniel's with Coke at the moment. Bought a new bottle today. It's summer in Australia at the moment and was REALLY hot today! Argh I hate the heat! And I was busy working all day finishing cutting my first draft of a video clip for a local band, decided to have a few quiet ones when I finished but kinda kept going!
I'm drinking Jack Daniel's with Coke at the moment. Bought a new bottle today. It's summer in Australia at the moment and was REALLY hot today! Argh I hate the heat! And I was busy working all day finishing cutting my first draft of a video clip for a local band, decided to have a few quiet ones when I finished but kinda kept going!
No, that quote was not specifically aimed at you. As I do not know you, it would be intellectually dishonest for me to peg you as such.Greeno said:
However, in my view, the stark closed-mindedness that prevails in the general metal community is overwhelming. It's a shallowness that I have no respect for.
SO many metal fans are just instantly turned off to great music simply because they feel that they aren't supposed to like it. And that very attitude is the antithesis of what metal and rock is all about.
It's fine with me that you (and others) either hate, love, or are indifferent to the Beatles (or any other band).
Music and other art forms can only ever be subject to opinion - the eye of the beholder. Unless it can be proven mathematically, everything is simply subjective opinion. Nothing more, nothing less.
Heck, you can poll 10,000,000 metal fans asking them if they think Black Sabbath is a great band. If 9,999,999 say yes, and only one says no, then Black Sabbath still can not be universally declared a 'great band'.
As for the Beatles, I appreciate Hawk's response. I, for one, did NOT grow up with the Beatles. And my parents aren't big music fans so I was not overexposed to them as a child. I only "discovered" the band about 8 years ago, in my early-mid 20s (same for the Stones). I was at a bar drinking with some buddies when a really gritty, heavy 'classic rock' blues-tune came on, which I dug. I was thinking that it must have been Cream or Jeff Beck, or the Yardbirds, something along those lines: old school, heavy blues. When I was told that it "Yer Blues" by the Beatles - the Beatles for christ's sake - I was shocked. How in the hell could that "sappy pop" band write such kick ass heavy music? Well, they did. Again, their version of Helter Skelter is still heavier than the Crue's cover, IMO.
JonnyD
Chef Metal
Trixxi Trash said:
its about time ... I was feeling All alone on top of the Blunt Rude mountain! I dont think a Solo needs to be complicatewd to sound good .... and your right to an extent about Music being about good songs But not all Music, Classical for example ... so I half agree with this Statement "music is ALL about the SONGS no matter what you think. Great musicianship is NOTHING without a good song " and Half dont .....
Trixx I respect your Opinion and you dont see me Bashing the Bands and Era you enjoy ...(W/ Exception to Poison once and a While)
and I Never see you doing that to bands I enjoy .... I dont know where I'm going with this ... hahaha ummm Basiclly ummm I know you LOVE Kiss and I respect that ... and I'm not going to ever Diss you for it ... especially since I spend alot of time Fighting with ppl Because they think there Opinions overide mine ... No Worries! If anybody gives you shit for your post I will back you up 
By the way, KISS is one subject where I get a bit touchy and my arguments get a bit heated and passionate, because if not for KISS I wouldn't be into any of the other bands I'm into today, I wouldn't play guitar, I wouldn't spend my weekends at rock clubs & shows, and also because alot of the best memories of my life are to do with KISS. To me that is why they are such a great band, I know this is probably the exact reason people don't like them sometimes but they are about so much more than just the music that they can really provide a special & memorable experience for people through their music, shows, everything.
I don't see anything wrong with that. You only live once and your life is basically just a series of good memories you collect. KISS know how to give their fans plenty of great memories and experiences. I don't know about you guys, but I wanna spend my time here on earth enjoying the things I love that make me happy, such as KISS, rather than spend it dwelling on the things I don't like.
I don't see anything wrong with that. You only live once and your life is basically just a series of good memories you collect. KISS know how to give their fans plenty of great memories and experiences. I don't know about you guys, but I wanna spend my time here on earth enjoying the things I love that make me happy, such as KISS, rather than spend it dwelling on the things I don't like.
JonnyD
Chef Metal
I grew up on the Beatles and stones Love em but I hate Black Sabbath ... Does that Mean I'm not a TrOO Metal Head?
You rock JonnyD
I agree with you too about the classical music thing, but where I was going with it was really that even with classical, being a great violinist is nothing if you don't use it to enhance the concerto or piece you are playing in. In classical music more than anything you have to "fit in" and be part of the sound. You might be able to play the hardest stuff ever but its far more important to understand the dynamics and melodies and feel of the piece you are playing... same goes with guitar playing in rock.
However, I do think that Bruce Kulick lacked an individual style that is something that makes someone a "guitar hero". Ace wasn't as good but he had that style... but I do think Bruce's playing fitted the songs perfectly and he was a great addition to the band, he just wasn't a guitar hero or rock star.
I agree with you too about the classical music thing, but where I was going with it was really that even with classical, being a great violinist is nothing if you don't use it to enhance the concerto or piece you are playing in. In classical music more than anything you have to "fit in" and be part of the sound. You might be able to play the hardest stuff ever but its far more important to understand the dynamics and melodies and feel of the piece you are playing... same goes with guitar playing in rock.
However, I do think that Bruce Kulick lacked an individual style that is something that makes someone a "guitar hero". Ace wasn't as good but he had that style... but I do think Bruce's playing fitted the songs perfectly and he was a great addition to the band, he just wasn't a guitar hero or rock star.
Oh yeah, and I think Ozzy-era Sabbath is overrated personally and my fave Sabbath albums are TYR and The Headless Cross. But I can totally see why people love the Ozzy stuff, has a certain vibe which is great.
JonnyD
Chef Metal
Trixxi Trash said:Oh yeah, and I think Ozzy-era Sabbath is overrated personally and my fave Sabbath albums are TYR and The Headless Cross. But I can totally see why people love the Ozzy stuff, has a certain vibe which is great.
hahaha I think O$$y is Overated in general ... he hasnt made anything close to decent since No more tears..... I like the Tony Martin Sabbath stuff it isnt bad but the Ozzy era stuff is Boring!
Agreed
Ozzy is a guy who was lucky to hang around with talent I think... and yeah the Martin stuff is pretty good I reckon but much of the Ozzy-era Sabbath is boring I agree.
Ozzy is a guy who was lucky to hang around with talent I think... and yeah the Martin stuff is pretty good I reckon but much of the Ozzy-era Sabbath is boring I agree.
JonnyD
Chef Metal
Yep I see what you mean there ... its Kinda like the guy in the Orc. with the Cymbal He might only do it once but its that simple action that can sometimes make the peice .... Right?Trixxi Trash said:You rock JonnyD
I agree with you too about the classical music thing, but where I was going with it was really that even with classical, being a great violinist is nothing if you don't use it to enhance the concerto or piece you are playing in. In classical music more than anything you have to "fit in" and be part of the sound. You might be able to play the hardest stuff ever but its far more important to understand the dynamics and melodies and feel of the piece you are playing... same goes with guitar playing in rock..
I personally think Bruce is a Fantastic Player he is Criminally Underated! He didnt really need to be a hero he was Just good ... but in a Band like Kiss Ace was certainly a Better fit... Tho I really like His Playing too .... 70's Kiss was great stuffTrixxi Trash said:
JonnyD
Chef Metal
He certainly knew good players when he Heard em .. but the Guy has never really personally done anything Inventive Musiclly infact he has done the same thing for over 30 years .... unless making an ass of yourself and Biting things in InventiveTrixxi Trash said:Agreed
Ozzy is a guy who was lucky to hang around with talent I think... and yeah the Martin stuff is pretty good I reckon but much of the Ozzy-era Sabbath is boring I agree.
JonnyD
Chef Metal
And, for reasons such as these, Kiss can be respected. I DO clearly recognize the tremendous influence they've had on the rock and metal world. Heck, practically EVERY band that came along in the 80s cited Kiss as a major influence: Skid Row, Anthrax, Crue, etc.Trixxi Trash said:
