Paul's Fake Hair...
- Thread starter sixxswine
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JonnyD
Chef Metal
Aha!! But what is it that makes the song Best or better. Aks 10 people and you'll get 10 different answers depending on what those 10 people will like. Music is a very personal choice. You can not simply say choice X is the best choice for everybody. What you yhink is great, fantastic and amazing other will not even understand.Trixxi Trash said:
My point is that I like some musical prowness. That does not mean musical prowness is the only standard by which I judge music. It does mean however that it represents an added value for me.
Again it depends on what you think "makes the overall sound & songs better".Trixxi Trash said:
Sounds like agood idea to me !Trixxi Trash said:
USMC0341
Dead Cold Day
Trixxi Trash said:Ted that is the best post I have ever seen!
Here are a few facts people:
KISS have never CLAIMED to have artistic integrity or be technical, they are are ROCK & ROLL band, not a heavy metal band. You CANNOT criticise a band for not being something they don't want to be anyway. That is like giving shit to a guitarist for not being good at drums. They couldn't give a shit about being artistically aclaimed, they are there to entertain rock n roll fans and they do that better than anyone. If you got a chance to see KISS on their 2004 tour they still fucking do it better than any other current bands do, even if they don't do it as well as they used to. Just because your idea of what music should be is different to theirs is no reason to criticise them, they achieve exactly what they want to achieve and more. Props to them for it.
Anybody who thinks KISS can only do "cheesy 3 chord music" has obviously only listened to the anthems and hits because with a 30 album catalogue there is ALOT more to KISS than that. The whole non-makeup era was made up of much more melodic, almost AOR-style at times pop-metal and melodic hard rock with great hooks and some killer guitars and very low-key on image with FAR smaller stage shows for the era than Bon Jovi, Motley Crue, Def Leppard & Poison even had. And whoever said Bruce's guitar playing sucked obviously hasn't even heard much. His solos during the '80s era are some of the most tasteful, fitting, melodic sounding hard rock solos recorded in my opinion. Anybody who thinks a solo has to be "challenging" to be good is a fucking twit, music is ALL about the SONGS no matter what you think. Great musicianship is NOTHING without a good song and the whole point of being a good musician is so it gives you the tools to make the songs sound as good as they can, Bruce did that perfectly, coming from a studio-musician background especially he was all about knowing how to find that perfect solo for the song. If not for using your musical talent to enhance the songs, having musical talent is about as useful as how many golf balls you can fit in your mouth. Music is about songs, not showing off an otherwise useless skill.
It just shits me when people look at 2% of KISS' fucking career (the few cheesy anthems they had hits with) and write them off and ignore the 30 fucking albums worth of great shit they wrote & recorded. Sure the original lineup weren't the best musicians in the world but Paul Stanley is a great vocalist & song writer and Ace is a rockin' and memorable guitarist (very much in the same league as Slash, not technical but has a certain great style), and the post-original lineup members are all top notch musicians as a band as big as KISS wouldn't hire anything less at that point in their career. But KISS are about more than guitar solos or how good the drummer is, who even gives a fuck about that anyway?!? It's about SONGS.
And as far as their image is concerned, unless a band's music is really bad (how come people bag KISS but praise Twisted Sister? TS couldn't play and could barely even write songs! Is it just because they are more "heavy metal" than KISS? Some metal fans can be such dicks sometimes I reckon) why should their image matter? Bagging a band for being image conscious is doing the EXACT same thing you are bagging - you are caring more about the image than the music and immediately dismissing the music because the band wants to put on a show to go with it, which I think every band should!
Do you know what music is? It's ENTERTAINMENT. I can't believe people forget that all the time, mainly metal fans. It's not a fucking school subject or a maths test where you have to prove your ability and get marked on it, its ENTERTAINMENT. If you play live and make the crowd happy and give them a good night, you have succeeded. You don't go to a concert with a fucking notepad and checklist, you go there to enjoy yourself. If you enjoy yourself, the band did its job. And guess what people - KISS make everybody enjoy themself at their shows, including people who went when I saw them last year that didn't even like KISS and always bagged them and changed their mind after having so much fun at their show and seeing what they are about!
Lighten the fuck up and take KISS for what they are - a fun ENTERTAINMENT band!!! If you bag them for not being more than that, you are a fucking idiot because they don't WANT to be more than that. If someone bagged me for being a bad painter they would be a fucking idiot because I'm not a painter and don't wanna be a painter so I would just laugh, its the EXACT same thing. Why don't you just enjoy them for what they are, and if that isn't your thing that's great too but don't bag them for it and most of all don't call their fans dumb or jackasses for it just because they look for something different than you. KISS fans don't think KISS are fucking Dream Theater, KISS fans love KISS because they want a big fun rock & roll spectacle and albums full of great catchy fun sleazy hard rock songs and KISS deliver that.
Have some fucking respect. Ever heard of opinions?? If you don't like something because its not what you're looking for in music, it isn't crap. I don't go posting on Morbid Angel or Testament threads bagging them just because I don't like them. If I don't like something I don't click on it and I let those who DO like it enjoy it because that's their thing, it just happens to not be mine. Why is it that people always have to treat KISS fans like such dickheads just because we prefer music that is fun & catchy than music which is a showcase for technical ability? (And before you say "It's because you buy all their merchandise" blah blah blah how would you even know? Most of my friends are KISS freaks and I only know one who collects their merchandise. Just because it is for sale doesn't mean we all buy it.)
PS. Excuse me if I'm being really blunt or rude but I'm really fucking drunk at the moment.
If you're entitled to your opinions, then we're entitled to ours Trixx. None of us are obligated to "respect" KISS or any other band for that matter, and especially over-valued glam bullshit (in my opinion). That's right - I said overvalued bullshit, because that's my OPINION of bands who dress up like women and don't put any real amount effort into the music they play. And when I say effort - I mean writing a riff that you have to practice for weeks before you can play it. That impresses me - doesn't impress everyone, but again - this is my opinion, and I am entitled to it.
If you like music that is simple, catchy and "fun", then more power to you. If you like bands that wear spandex, tease their hair and try to look like women - again, more power to you. To each his own.
As long as it's acknowledged that most of these poser bands were about image, and that most of them weren't technical at all - then I have no problem with it...let's just make sure it's called the way it is.
They have their niche, and bands with real musicians who push the envelope have theirs. That's a fact - it's not even debatable.
That's my 2 cents...again.
tedvanfrehley
Your Favorite Uncle
And then there's me....
Why do I love KISS? Maybe it's to compensate for having a small wiener!
HAHAHAHA now I dare one of y'all to put THAT quote as your signature!
hahahahahahahaha
diary of a fatman
TED
Why do I love KISS? Maybe it's to compensate for having a small wiener!
HAHAHAHA now I dare one of y'all to put THAT quote as your signature!
hahahahahahahaha
diary of a fatman
TED
USMC0341
Dead Cold Day
Trixxi Trash said:Ted that is the best post I have ever seen!
Here are a few facts people:
KISS have never CLAIMED to have artistic integrity or be technical, they are are ROCK & ROLL band, not a heavy metal band. You CANNOT criticise a band for not being something they don't want to be anyway. That is like giving shit to a guitarist for not being good at drums. They couldn't give a shit about being artistically aclaimed, they are there to entertain rock n roll fans and they do that better than anyone. If you got a chance to see KISS on their 2004 tour they still fucking do it better than any other current bands do, even if they don't do it as well as they used to. Just because your idea of what music should be is different to theirs is no reason to criticise them, they achieve exactly what they want to achieve and more. Props to them for it.
Anybody who thinks KISS can only do "cheesy 3 chord music" has obviously only listened to the anthems and hits because with a 30 album catalogue there is ALOT more to KISS than that. The whole non-makeup era was made up of much more melodic, almost AOR-style at times pop-metal and melodic hard rock with great hooks and some killer guitars and very low-key on image with FAR smaller stage shows for the era than Bon Jovi, Motley Crue, Def Leppard & Poison even had. And whoever said Bruce's guitar playing sucked obviously hasn't even heard much. His solos during the '80s era are some of the most tasteful, fitting, melodic sounding hard rock solos recorded in my opinion. Anybody who thinks a solo has to be "challenging" to be good is a fucking twit, music is ALL about the SONGS no matter what you think. Great musicianship is NOTHING without a good song and the whole point of being a good musician is so it gives you the tools to make the songs sound as good as they can, Bruce did that perfectly, coming from a studio-musician background especially he was all about knowing how to find that perfect solo for the song. If not for using your musical talent to enhance the songs, having musical talent is about as useful as how many golf balls you can fit in your mouth. Music is about songs, not showing off an otherwise useless skill.
It just shits me when people look at 2% of KISS' fucking career (the few cheesy anthems they had hits with) and write them off and ignore the 30 fucking albums worth of great shit they wrote & recorded. Sure the original lineup weren't the best musicians in the world but Paul Stanley is a great vocalist & song writer and Ace is a rockin' and memorable guitarist (very much in the same league as Slash, not technical but has a certain great style), and the post-original lineup members are all top notch musicians as a band as big as KISS wouldn't hire anything less at that point in their career. But KISS are about more than guitar solos or how good the drummer is, who even gives a fuck about that anyway?!? It's about SONGS.
And as far as their image is concerned, unless a band's music is really bad (how come people bag KISS but praise Twisted Sister? TS couldn't play and could barely even write songs! Is it just because they are more "heavy metal" than KISS? Some metal fans can be such dicks sometimes I reckon) why should their image matter? Bagging a band for being image conscious is doing the EXACT same thing you are bagging - you are caring more about the image than the music and immediately dismissing the music because the band wants to put on a show to go with it, which I think every band should!
Do you know what music is? It's ENTERTAINMENT. I can't believe people forget that all the time, mainly metal fans. It's not a fucking school subject or a maths test where you have to prove your ability and get marked on it, its ENTERTAINMENT. If you play live and make the crowd happy and give them a good night, you have succeeded. You don't go to a concert with a fucking notepad and checklist, you go there to enjoy yourself. If you enjoy yourself, the band did its job. And guess what people - KISS make everybody enjoy themself at their shows, including people who went when I saw them last year that didn't even like KISS and always bagged them and changed their mind after having so much fun at their show and seeing what they are about!
Lighten the fuck up and take KISS for what they are - a fun ENTERTAINMENT band!!! If you bag them for not being more than that, you are a fucking idiot because they don't WANT to be more than that. If someone bagged me for being a bad painter they would be a fucking idiot because I'm not a painter and don't wanna be a painter so I would just laugh, its the EXACT same thing. Why don't you just enjoy them for what they are, and if that isn't your thing that's great too but don't bag them for it and most of all don't call their fans dumb or jackasses for it just because they look for something different than you. KISS fans don't think KISS are fucking Dream Theater, KISS fans love KISS because they want a big fun rock & roll spectacle and albums full of great catchy fun sleazy hard rock songs and KISS deliver that.
Have some fucking respect. Ever heard of opinions?? If you don't like something because its not what you're looking for in music, it isn't crap. I don't go posting on Morbid Angel or Testament threads bagging them just because I don't like them. If I don't like something I don't click on it and I let those who DO like it enjoy it because that's their thing, it just happens to not be mine. Why is it that people always have to treat KISS fans like such dickheads just because we prefer music that is fun & catchy than music which is a showcase for technical ability? (And before you say "It's because you buy all their merchandise" blah blah blah how would you even know? Most of my friends are KISS freaks and I only know one who collects their merchandise. Just because it is for sale doesn't mean we all buy it.)
PS. Excuse me if I'm being really blunt or rude but I'm really fucking drunk at the moment.
And one last thing Trixxi - I re-read your rant.
I never said a solo HAS to be challenging...so don't put words in my mouth. But to NEVER play anything with a little musical challenge to it is something else altogether and you know that dude. I know as well as as any musician that sometimes simple is the key. But simple ALL the time is weak and lame.
If you want to call me a twit (drunk or not)...go ahead and say it instead of being vague about it. I have thick skin and you're not going to hurt my feelings.
My point is that you should realize that the "right to an opinion" that you love flaunting applies to me just as much as it applies to you. I expressed my opinion without directly insulting you or taking potshots at you...but you got drunk, didn't like MY opinion, and called me a twit (not that I can't take it Trixx...I'm just making a point).
So - here's the reality dude - In my opinion - glam sucks. Some glam bands wrote some catchy assed melodies, but as a whole I think it's musically bankrupt, cheesy and way overrated. It's more about image and prancing around like a jackass than about challenging yourself musically and pushing the envelope. I don't find any redeeming qualities in using hairspray and wearing makeup and spandex. That's my OPINION and I'm entitled to it...it doesn't make me better than anyone else - and I'll be the first person to acknowledge that. You seem to assume that because I feel that way that I think I am musically superior than people who like glam. That's not the case and you will never hear me saying so...
I'm just being honest and expressing my opinions on the subject. If you don't like my opinion, that's your right as well, and I respect it. But there's no reason to insult me - I've never crossed that line with you, even though there's plenty of ammunition to use if you push me in that direction.
Just chill and relax. Maybe you shouldn't drink if you're gonna get that heated about someone not liking the stuff you like.
JB
USMC0341
Dead Cold Day
JonnyD
Chef Metal
Well hehehe this is a gold mine hahaha .... One Reason for Trixxes rant is the same reason I do it ... The Glam Era is not exzactly Revered nowadays and it can be Tough to be a fan of an Unpopular form of music try seeing it from his perspective it actually is easy to get pissed when your getting dissed .... and it does seem that his twit remark Offended you more than you want to admit but not more than you let on .... The Glam Era DID push the envlope if it didnt We wouldnt even be discussing it now .... Was there some Really Shitty Bands IMHO yeah but there were also Some Excellent bands too .... so to completely disregard the genre is harsh and disrespectful ... all music doesnt have to be Anal and Technical it can be *GASP* fun too ... Music Doesnt have to be complicated Music Doesnt have to be Technical to be Challenging ... The Glam era was a special time Music was FUN then and Bands had character .... hahaha I'm going to stop nowUSMC0341 said:
Ayeka
Hell Bent For Leather!
Yup...because it's spelt "tr00"JonnyD said:I grew up on the Beatles and stones Love em but I hate Black Sabbath ... Does that Mean I'm not a TrOO Metal Head?
Greeno said:Ted does it again!!! That says it all!!
May have to put that in my sig.
Hot groupies flashing the band entertains me more.. as for bands.. i go there for the music .. everything else is just icing on the cake .. seen one guy spit blood or breathe fire you seen them all.. do something new already after 30 years geez lol ...
JonnyD said:.... so to completely disregard the genre is harsh and disrespectful ... all music doesnt have to be Anal and Technical it can be *GASP* fun too ... Music Doesnt have to be complicated Music Doesnt have to be Technical to be Challenging ... The Glam era was a special time Music was FUN then and Bands had character .... hahaha I'm going to stop now
JD sticking up for his brothers of glam!!
Right on!Unfaithfully Metalhead said:
Seen one guy play a million note solo you've seen them all... Seen one guy playing a 6 string bass like a guitar you've seen them all... you hear one self indulgent "I write music for myself" musician and you've heard them all...
Greeno said:Seen one guy play a million note solo you've seen them all... Seen one guy playing a 6 string bass like a guitar you've seen them all... you hear one self indulgent "I write music for myself" musician and you've heard them all...
True but they actually try to do something different with those notes and instruments thats the difference...
Wicked Child
DYNO-MITE!
Sweet Jesus on stick!!!!! HOW DO I KEEP MISSING ALL THESE TOPICS!?!?!?!? !? I know i've down from a front line member of this groupto maybe a third tier member that hardly anyone remembers, notices or cares for, but someone has to tell me when big disscussions like this is going on!!
JonnyD
Chef Metal
Greeno said:JD sticking up for his brothers of glam!!
We are all brothers of Metal Regardless of the Genre! ..... You dont ever see me trashing on anybodies Musical Prefences No matter how much I want to ... There is Just a difference between expressing an Opinion that is productive and one that just tears somebody down
Besides Trixx is Cool and I told him I would back him up
JonnyD
Chef Metal
NICK NICK NICK Dont EVER think I forgot about you you lil shit!!!! I have been wondering about ya Send me a PM let me know how you are doing okWicked Child said:
Damn! When you speak your mind you do speak your mind.USMC0341 said:
Thats all very well USM but I have to remember that Trixx is a respected member of our community, just as you are. I am glad he's back after a long absence and I am not gonna stand passively at the sideline watching you drive him away again.
Just show the guy a little respect and remember that what we like in music is the result of personal choices and values.
This is a friendly community and I'd like to keep it that way. So tone done the aggressiveness. You are not on a mission and this is not a battlefield [yet].
USMC0341
Dead Cold Day
JonnyD said:Well hehehe this is a gold mine hahaha .... One Reason for Trixxes rant is the same reason I do it ... The Glam Era is not exzactly Revered nowadays and it can be Tough to be a fan of an Unpopular form of music try seeing it from his perspective it actually is easy to get pissed when your getting dissed .... and it does seem that his twit remark Offended you more than you want to admit but not more than you let on .... The Glam Era DID push the envlope if it didnt We wouldnt even be discussing it now .... Was there some Really Shitty Bands IMHO yeah but there were also Some Excellent bands too .... so to completely disregard the genre is harsh and disrespectful ... all music doesnt have to be Anal and Technical it can be *GASP* fun too ... Music Doesnt have to be complicated Music Doesnt have to be Technical to be Challenging ... The Glam era was a special time Music was FUN then and Bands had character .... hahaha I'm going to stop now
Point taken JonnyD - but again, let me clarify:
1) I wasn't offended by the twit comment - but that doesn't mean I'm not going to address it, especially since I never attacked anyone personally.
2) You're right - all music doesn't have to be anal and technical - but I respect the hell out of musicians who do it.
3) Plenty of technical bands have character - just because they don't wear it on their sleeve doesn't mean they don't.
4) When I say "pushing the envelope" I mean musically pushing the envelope. I meant pushing the boundaries of what's been done and setting the bar at a new level. Glam pushed the envelope in outrageousness, what they were willing to do for more notoriety and trying to outdo their peers - I won't debate that one bit. So to clarify, I am talking about pushing th envelope musically from a technical perspective.
5) I'm sorry it's hard to be a glam fan nowadays. I can't really relate to that, but I would imagine it's something like being a metal fan in the early 80's and being called devil worshipper, satan and burnout every day. Or like being a metal fan in the early 90's when grunge got popular and having people in flannel shirts call you washed up and lame. I try to let it roll off my back. If you truly appreciate something - fuck what anyone else has to say about it.
And lastly - you are entitled to your opinion JonnyD, and I respect your opinion. All I'm saying is that I'm entitled to mine as well, and if I can maintain enough objectivity and not insult someone who doesn't agree with me, then I should be able to expect the same - right?
It's all good...
JB
