Peavey 6505+ recording test

[jamesboyd]

hmmm I'll have to try out those foam boards tho, low-mids are always a bit of a problem in the room I use.

Man speaking of the 6505+ I think the new god forbid c.d is all 6505+ with a maxon on the rhy/crunch channel and it sounds great!! vey tight, nice midrange and a bit of 'chew'

Any other records to check out with the 5150ii ?

 

[sah5150]

well according to a post by andy he doesn't 'bother with covering the amp anymore' maybe he just meant he doesn't enclose the whole cabinet with sheets etc.

lotta room sound/ambience in a lot of what I'm hearing of andy's, but when I say a lot I mean you can hear *some* room in there, and not just the gtr sound direct like say a pod with no mic/room settings on.

That's how it sounds to me on a lot of records, the new arch enemy record (track 7 or 8) when one of the rhythm guitars goes off on it's own doing some low-E and octave work is a prime example of the sound breathing a bit.

I don't see how you are going to get any room sound from close micing a screaming amp with a 57. The 57 cancels everything coming from behind it effectively, and unless you have a lot of open space in the tune all you would hear is the direct speeaker sound even if that weren't true. The ambience you are hearing is being added after the guitar is recorded unless room mic are being specifically placed and mixed with the close-miced sound...

Steve

 

[sah5150]

hmmm I'll have to try out those foam boards tho, low-mids are always a bit of a problem in the room I use.

I can't understand what the room has to do with it if you are close micing the amp cab with a 57 or other mic that kills off everything coming from behind it.

Steve

 

[jamesboyd]

no disrespect but the room has a lot to do with it, if it didn't why would some people use foam/enclosures and others not.

with your logic there's no sound/ambience difference whether the mic is touching the grill or 2 inches off right? because I'm using a 57?

 

[sah5150]

no disrespect but the room has a lot to do with it, if it didn't why would some people use foam/enclosures and others not.

with your logic there's no sound/ambience difference whether the mic is touching the grill or 2 inches off right? because I'm using a 57?

No disrespect taken, I am just going from my experience and my understanding of how an SM57 functions... If I'm wrong that's fine with me, but I'd love to hear some other opinions...

I didn't say there wasn't a sound difference between different mic positions, I said you are not picking up nearly any ambience like room reflections or anything like that when close micing with a 57. For example, proximity effect is stronger the closer the mic is to the source and that will effect the sound. However, if reflections came back to the mic they would be pretty much inaudible compared with the volume of the amp, unless there was a lot of silence in the tune. An SM57 is a unidirectional (cardioid) mic. It is made to reduce sound away from the source and minimize background noise. That is why off axis mic position sounds different than dead on. You are playing less of the guitar sound into the main pattern of the mic, you are not getting more ambience. With some mics this may be different, but not a 57. Also, with a screaming, distorted 100W amp blasting straight on to a 57 on axis, within 2 inches of the speaker, the recorded result would sound the same in any room from my experience (given the exact same mic position). I've recorded in an iso cab with foam and in the middle of a largely wood room with nothing and the recorded results sound the same to me when close micing with a 57.

Just my opinion...

Steve

 

[Andy Sneap]

i actually find if I use baffles and box a cab in I can here it more than if I let the cab breathe. I find the Aurelex maxx wall panels pretty cool, as they deaden any immediate reflections just enough. You will still hear any quirky room even if using a single 57, though it will come across as more of a colour to the tone. Small garage size rooms are the worst for this, and also wooden floors from past experience.

 

[Andy Sneap]

by the way, nice photo shop work there James on the bald bit

 

[James Murphy]

well according to a post by andy he doesn't 'bother with covering the amp anymore' maybe he just meant he doesn't enclose the whole cabinet with sheets etc.

yes, that's likely what he meant.

lotta room sound/ambience in a lot of what I'm hearing of andy's

i don't hear a lotta room ambience in Andy's guitar sounds.. nor do i think that would be desirable.

but when I say a lot I mean you can hear *some* room in there, and not just the gtr sound direct like say a pod with no mic/room settings on.

now you are back-pedaling. why should anyone assume that when you say "lotta" that you actually mean "some"? anyway, the bit of room that does make it back to the mic is masked by the guitar coming out of the cab.... any slight difference is negliable and differences from room to room, or even outdoors (hi matt smith ) will be more a function of the surface the cab is sitting on... which does in fact make a difference in how the cab resonates.. and thus to what enters the mic. i'll qualify this by saying that if the room is small or you are too near one wall or a corner then you will get some reflections back in the mic and it can sound weird... thus the foam panels

That's how it sounds to me on a lot of records, the new arch enemy record (track 7 or 8) when one of the rhythm guitars goes off on it's own doing some low-E and octave work is a prime example of the sound breathing a bit.

i think this is more down to either playing technique and/or fx... i'll have to listen to confrim which. you are probably mostly hearing verb that andy has added in various places... easy mistake. \m/

 

[sah5150]

i actually find if I use baffles and box a cab in I can here it more than if I let the cab breathe. I find the Aurelex maxx wall panels pretty cool, as they deaden any immediate reflections just enough. You will still hear any quirky room even if using a single 57, though it will come across as more of a colour to the tone. Small garage size rooms are the worst for this, and also wooden floors from past experience.

Cool. I actually have my 4x12 and mics in an iso box that has foam wall panels all around and always record that way now. I just did it so I record without getting arrested though, not for tone differences - I haven't noticed any difference between that setup and close micing the same amp with the same mic positioned the same way in a wood room in my studio, but maybe its subtle enough that I'm not picking up on it. I need to go back and listen to those recording with a more critical ear...

Thanks,

Steve

 

[sah5150]

anyway, the bit of room that does make it back to the mic is masked by the guitar coming out of the cab....

That's what I thought as well...

Steve

 

[JeffTD]

Man speaking of the 6505+ I think the new god forbid c.d is all 6505+ with a maxon on the rhy/crunch channel and it sounds great!! vey tight, nice midrange and a bit of 'chew'

I talked to Doc after last years Ozzfest, at the time he said he was running a Maxon OD-9 into his 5150II's.

 

[vile_ator]

In the two studios we built, we made amp closets. But after trying to use them, we stopped. The second one was even really nice with a wood floor and really strong walls covered with foam. Not too small either. But the amps never seemed to sound right playing in there. You get this mid bass resonance. It seems impossible that you would get any reflections back into the 57 when its getting pummeled with 120 db or whatever from the front. But you do apparently. We have been doing just what Andy seems to be doing I think. We put the cab out into the good drum room. Find a good spot, and put a few sheets of foam to the left and right of the cab to stop a bit of the reflections. Then just leave it alone. Thats all thats needed. That breathing thng he was talking about works for us too.

Colin

 

[jamesboyd]

The track is 'mechanic god creation' on 'ddm' towards the start of the song.
Yes it is easier to hear when a guitar is by itself and specifically if it's a stop/ start type riff (octaves seem to make the room/early reflections easier for me to hear)

As soon as you double track it, and pan it, the sounds comes in towards the speaker as it were, and hides any room involvment)

Just because it's a 57 and 5150 screaming through a boogie cab doesn't mean that you will hear nothing else (and nothing from the space it is in)

Placing the mic distance from the cab so that it sounds close and direct (without sounding like a d.i source) is part of what I'm looking for when I trying to get good gtr sounds.

nothing more, nothing less. If it reverb I'm hearing an awful lot of records have reverb on the rhy gtrs when they go into a new riff by themselves

 

[James Murphy]

The track is 'mechanic god creation' on 'ddm' towards the start of the song.
Yes it is easier to hear when a guitar is by itself and specifically if it's a stop/ start type riff (octaves seem to make the room/early reflections easier for me to hear)

As soon as you double track it, and pan it, the sounds comes in towards the speaker as it were, and hides any room involvment)

Just because it's a 57 and 5150 screaming through a boogie cab doesn't mean that you will hear nothing else (and nothing from the space it is in)

Placing the mic distance from the cab so that it sounds close and direct (without sounding like a d.i source) is part of what I'm looking for when I trying to get good gtr sounds.

nothing more, nothing less. If it reverb I'm hearing an awful lot of records have reverb on the rhy gtrs when they go into a new riff by themselves

ok, i checked out the part... just sounds like a close-mic'd cab sitting in a room with a bit of foam around it always sounds to me to me, actual guitar tone aside. i NEVER said a close-mic'd cab should sound like a D.I. so, i don't know why you referenced that extreme earlier... anyway, listening to that and re-reading your posts it just seems to me that you are viewing this in exremes... no one ever said here that rhythm guitar recorded with a mic on a cab should sound like a direct recording or as though it were done in an anehoic chamber... otherwise that is what we would do.

this sound of the "room" you're hearing is partly cab resonance.. there's a lot of air and space in that cab, and the mic is pointed right at it, with only paper between... and the room plays a part in that, for sure.. there is also some refelection.. very minimal and mostly masked by the loud guitar coming out of the speaker. and, if you don't put up some foam around the cab, especially in a small room, you can get some audible, nasty reflections.

all i hear in there is a mic'd cab... with the same amount of air and resoncance usually associated with a close-mic'd guitar cab, that is sitting in a room with refeclections conrolled by some foam... not a signifant "room" tone.... yes, the room is a component here, but not as large of one as the cab, speaker, amp, guitar, and mic.

once again, understanding is tied up by semantics... it's there, never said it wasn't... just not a "lotta' of it. you might also review Andy's post on the subject, above.

i also never said there was "an awful lot of records have reverb on the rhy gtrs when they go into a new riff by themselves"... you came up with that. i only tried to make a guess, not having heard what you were on about. i've listened now. peace.