Philosophy- Discuss Here

[Mystique1721]

So I thought there should be a philosophy thread for some of us to have cool discussions in. I'm sure there will be a lot of arguing and disagreement, but it's good for us . Let's try to keep it alive by not starting any flame wars here.

And I don't give 2 shits if some of you think this is stupid. I know there are a few people in here who are capable of having rational discussions. So this can be fun.

I'll start off by posting something I just found on my old computer. This is something I wrote up when I was 16; it wasn't an assignment for school or anything, I was just getting my thoughts out.

Kljsf;oije IT’S ALL iojej oifug9p8w5u3 ijgk A BUNCHdfljse ofijsek OF CHAOS Lkfj eoiulksdj jik lkjeoikj AND SOMETIMES lkjdsoi;fjsj WHEN oidjfklsj WE PUT lkjdfoijdflk MEANING aoijoejoiej ojot INTO THESE RANDOM dofjusoirjlks osidjf lks fo;iusdklf lskjg;orjtg ACTSaldkjf oisjflkj kdfj lkjdoij OF CHAOSldkfjoidjflk we get carried away.



The above is a demonstration of humans prescribing/inventing meaning where there is none to be found. Science tells us that we are a bunch of subatomic particles, that we are composed of cells that contain a nucleus and this nucleus is a dense cloud (space) of energy. So we are nothing but random forms of the particles.


Here is our universe, our world. Somewhere within this chaotic arrangement we “exist”:

Kljselkjuoisjnmlkw3u5[802u jpoi2309tujr3k][R9F-94U YJKJG9u ijre
0yt8n loe igKJ084HTNEOIGVB8HNGWMEL;GTK RHJNklkfOUakm
opeit irntmle;kgn ierhntmgfobunr hntmeylfbujenrumj,8iuhygeb4jklu;j=n-v098uytgvbm,.l;’n[ -uhibj tvicujhn rfbov uhbj mgmfjxnb mdsvkcx


Notice how none of the characters above, in that arrangement, can be understood in English. This is because we have not invented a meaning for any of those characters in that certain arrangement. But right now, I could tell you that “v098uytgvbm” (beginning of the 4th line) means “human”. Now, all of a sudden, we have created a human in our random and chaotic universe.

This is how we function as humans. We constantly prescribe meaning where there originally was none. What is the meaning of meaning? Even asking that question makes me feel like I’m a hypocrite (but aren’t we all?). Because now I seek the reason to why people are seeking reason. Well, I shall answer that question anyway. The meaning of meaning is security. People feel more secure when they have meaning in their lives. When everything around them has some sort of meaning. And if they find something without meaning, they will try their hardest to find meaning. My, my…. Humans are most certainly weak. But then again, we are all human, all too human.

Thoughts are welcome.

 

[KillerGon]

http://www.ultimatemetal.com/forum/philosopher-356/

 

[Undefined]

^Yeah, but this would get ass-raped on that forum. Those people are really smart, and deep, and racist I used to lurk there for a long while. This is a cool discussion to have but I hope it doesn't turn to shit, I'll add some thoughts later, perhaps.

 

[Mystique1721]

http://www.ultimatemetal.com/forum/philosopher-356/

sweet. I'll check that out.

And yeah, Joe, I'm waiting for your opinions on this

 

[Swabs]

hrrrrr philosophy... I prefer to think about something that actually makes a difference in the way the world works, like Psychology.

 

[Fetzer]

hrrrrr philosophy... I prefer to think about something that actually makes a difference in the way the world works, like Psychology.

big lol

 

[Undefined]

hrrrrr philosophy... I prefer to think about something that actually makes a difference in the way the world works, like Psychology.

Philosophers fucking gave way to A LOT of the established theories we have today in a wide variety of things (science, math, etc)... Without their thinking we wouldn't have had the basis for a number of things, lulz.

Also double lulz and thinking psychology makes a big difference in the world

 

[KillerGon]

I prefer to think about something that actually makes a difference in the way the world works, like Psychology.

LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL!!!

You know, there are two types of lie: The little lie and Psychology.

 

[Mystique1721]

wow, I think I overestimated some of the people here

 

[Undefined]

wow, I think I overestimated some of the people here

Me too

 

[SteveMCsteve]

actually to be honest I think its easier if you human just accept that God did create this world.
Science simply can't explain everything.

 

[Mystique1721]

actually to be honest I think its easier if you human just accept that God did create this world.
Science simply can't explain everything.

tell me you're being sarcastic?

 

[SteveMCsteve]

 

[Undefined]

actually to be honest I think its easier if you human just accept that God did create this world.
Science simply can't explain everything.

 

[SteveMCsteve]

 

[Altitudes]

actually to be honest I think its easier if you human just accept that God did create this world.
Science simply can't explain everything.

No offense but you are a huge faggot if that is how you attempt to explain the "unknown".

Mystique- Not to trying to be rude, but this thread is weakly developed and as Dawnghost has already said you merely assert your point. Human existence and causality is a fucking broad subject. While philosophy has always interested me, I honestly do not have the patience to discuss it with others, at least not on a forum. I thought about creating a thread like this a while ago but this forum section is a shithole and there already is the "Philsopher" forum (which is worth checking out every now and then).

 

[SteveMCsteve]

jeez I was just kidding.

 

[dawnghost]

big lol

+ 1

And the opening post was, well, in my view, unpolished. Really, if you're gonna try to discuss philosophy, you should at least read some authors first. You know, an exercise in dialectics has never hurt anyone, but if you're gonna do it, why not study some thinkers before calling people weak deliberately? And in an opening statement nonetheless? Because really, even if you include yourself in the human category in the end, still it seems you position yourself as superior for having "discovered" the motivation for the attribution of meaning to mindless events that humans tend to indulge in.

But now, is it REALLY a weakness to look for meaning? To reason? It seems you have jumped to the conclusion that it is meaningless to reason since, well, everything is just random and interpreted according to norms, arbitrary in your eyes.

In fact, disagreeing with you is just an illusion, because even when you try to find a reason for this useless search that humans dedicate themselves to, you label yourself as an hypocrite and weak as everyone else. Not even you can disagree with yourself!

Therefore, in your eyes, any "reasonable" individual must assume he's not reasonable AT ALL, and just shut the hell up. But if that's the case, why even discuss anything? I mean, if you're proposing a sort of freedom from this illusion called reason, arguing that it's a futile endeavor to even think, then just lock yourself in utmost ignorance and, ironically, paint yourself smart for having realised that! If your position is honest, you should be the first to take the apathetic road and refrain from ever discussing this topic again! You're free from the illusion!

Because really, if life's actually as mindless as that, why even care? You're just a cosmic orphan, waiting to go back to the void. What'll be your poison? Hedonism? Escapism? It's just a matter of choosing how you're gonna spend your time until the inevitable happens.

It seems to me that arguing for reason with you would be futile. Actually, your argument is incompatible with reason, since reason itself is an illusion. That conclusion though, follows from the premise that the universe is random and meaningless. Now THIS is the real argument at hand, in my eyes.

All the rest, that condescending wink you were giving to humanity and to reason itself in your opening post... that follows from your unjustified premise. The absurdity of the universe.

Why don't you try to justify that?

 

[dawnghost]

hrrrrr philosophy... I prefer to think about something that actually makes a difference in the way the world works, like Psychology.

There is no science without philosophy. One word: epistemology.

 

[Mystique1721]

+ 1

And the opening post was, well, in my view, unpolished. Really, if you're gonna try to discuss philosophy, you should at least read some authors first. You know, an exercise in dialectics has never hurt anyone, but if you're gonna do it, why not study some thinkers before calling people weak deliberately? And in an opening statement nonetheless? Because really, even if you include yourself in the human category in the end, still it seems you position yourself as superior for having "discovered" the motivation for the attribution of meaning to mindless events that humans tend to indulge in.

Keep in mind, I wrote that when I was 16. I was not as educated at that time in matters of philosophy. And don't assume that I haven't read. I'm a philosophy major, so I have read plenty. No where in that post did I assert myself as being superior...where did you get that from? I clearly said I am human just as everyone else, and what's more, I'm doing what everyone does and looking for meaning in meaning itself. And no, I don't claim to "discover" anything. The security that ppl find in religion and god is thought of by many people.

But now, is it REALLY a weakness to look for meaning? To reason? It seems you have jumped to the conclusion that it is meaningless to reason since, well, everything is just random and interpreted according to norms, arbitrary in your eyes.

I'm glad you think this. But I did point out that it is only human to reason and look for meaning. My point is to just point out this is what we do automatically, but in the metaphysical sense, there is no need for reason nor meaning.

In fact, disagreeing with you is just an illusion, because even when you try to find a reason for this useless search that humans dedicate themselves to, you label yourself as an hypocrite and weak as everyone else. Not even you can disagree with yourself!

Exactly. so what's your point? None of this makes sense, but it does. A paradox, if you will.

Therefore, in your eyes, any "reasonable" individual must assume he's not reasonable AT ALL, and just shut the hell up. But if that's the case, why even discuss anything? I mean, if you're proposing a sort of freedom from this illusion called reason, arguing that it's a futile endeavor to even think, then just lock yourself in utmost ignorance and, ironically, paint yourself smart for having realised that! If your position is honest, you should be the first to take the apathetic road and refrain from ever discussing this topic again! You're free from the illusion!

to answer the first question: because it is philosophy!
secondly, you're not understanding my point. I'm trying to get through to the mass that things we have created such as religion are all weaknesses. THAT is what we should free ourselves from. Not necessarily reason itself. Reason is an illusion, yes (just as existence itself, but that's another topic perhaps), but we can't live any other way. We are rational beings. It is when we come up with the man-made concepts in this world, such as the concept of god, that makes us weak. That is one of our downfalls as man.

Because really, if life's actually as mindless as that, why even care? You're just a cosmic orphan, waiting to go back to the void. What'll be your poison? Hedonism? Escapism? It's just a matter of choosing how you're gonna spend your time until the inevitable happens.

And this is why Neitzsche eventually killed himself.

It seems to me that arguing for reason with you would be futile. Actually, your argument is incompatible with reason, since reason itself is an illusion. That conclusion though, follows from the premise that the universe is random and meaningless. Now THIS is the real argument at hand, in my eyes.

you have the premise right. but in the conclusion, you seem to be confusing "reason" for "meaning."

All the rest, that condescending wink you were giving to humanity and to reason itself in your opening post... that follows from your unjustified premise. The absurdity of the universe.

Why don't you try to justify that?

YOU CANNOT JUSTIFY THE ABSURD. here is where reason reaches its dead end. It is defeated by the absurd.