Please help High Gain Amp Sims

[chaztrip]

Help... I think I have lost it. I have been away from playing for quite some time(injured). But for xmas got some surprises and have been feeling better so decided to go out it again. I am in situation where I have to be all digital.

So here is question or advice. I have guitar> focusrite 214>Daw for the past 3 weeks I have been playing with all my new toys from GC. Amplitube 4, Guitar Rig, Revalver and all the other TSE,LePou Nick Crow Ect.... Tons of IRs. I know that I should be worried about what I can do post.... eq compression Ect.....

But for the life of me all high gain amps are sounding the same to me. And I am starting to freak out about not being even having a decent tone to track with!

What can I do to get a decent high gain tracking tone? Or are my ears just shot. :-(.

Chaz.

 

[BassTard]

Hmmh, it's hard to say in remote analysis. Could you describe, what's lacking? Maybe post some samples?
Here's some first aid stuff you could try:

- Try some EQ before hittin' the ampsim. The frequency balance into the pre changes the gainstructure quite a bit.
- Switch to a higher sample rate. It will shorten your input latency and may smooth up some top end (especially with heavy distortion).
- Use a Tube Screamer simulation in front of the amp. (I bet you're allready doing it...)
- If you didn't do it allready: minimize your driver's buffers. Feel is very sensible to any latency, imho.
- Put a transient designer on the output, to get a more dynamic feel.
- Alternatively use the Acme Bar Gig Cab Enhancer. It's got a steep learning curve. But if you just use it to get the low end pumping, it will help to get a more live-like feeling.
- Use a real guitar stomp into your 2i4. Sometimes it works wonders, even with cheaper stuff.

Some more obvious ideas:
- Check your DI gain.
- Use another guitar
- Change your strings

 

[Adee]

Different amps/cabs (real or sim) sound DEFINITELY different. Very different.
As a starting point: connect your axe to the interface DON'T use any plugins apart from ie. AmpliTube and switch between factory presets and play. Guitar ---> interface ---> AmpliTube (stand alone or in DAW) and thats it. When switch between factory presets you must hear the difference.

 

[chaztrip]

Hmmh, it's hard to say in remote analysis. Could you describe, what's lacking? Maybe post some samples?
Here's some first aid stuff you could try:

- Try some EQ before hittin' the ampsim. The frequency balance into the pre changes the gainstructure quite a bit.
Yes this Helped!
- Switch to a higher sample rate. It will shorten your input latency and may smooth up some top end (especially with heavy distortion).
Did not notice much.. between 44.1 and 88.2 and 96?
- Use a Tube Screamer simulation in front of the amp. (I bet you're allready doing it...)
Forgot about that... threw in ts 808 and it helped.
- If you didn't do it allready: minimize your driver's buffers. Feel is very sensible to any latency, imho.
Down to 8ms no underruns so that is good.
- Put a transient designer on the output, to get a more dynamic feel.
- Alternatively use the Acme Bar Gig Cab Enhancer. It's got a steep learning curve. But if you just use it to get the low end pumping, it will help to get a more live-like feeling.
trying this now
- Use a real guitar stomp into your 2i4. Sometimes it works wonders, even with cheaper stuff.

Some more obvious ideas:
- Check your DI gain.
- Use another guitar
- Change your strings

Thanks for the reply... I have tried out some of the above. see my replies in bold.

 

[chaztrip]

Different amps/cabs (real or sim) sound DEFINITELY different. Very different.
As a starting point: connect your axe to the interface DON'T use any plugins apart from ie. AmpliTube and switch between factory presets and play. Guitar ---> interface ---> AmpliTube (stand alone or in DAW) and thats it. When switch between factory presets you must hear the difference.

Yes I was probably not stating it correctly... Yes I can definitely hear the differences, what I think more that I was running up against was just taking dry amps no effects and having a hard time really telling a difference in some of the high gain models. I have been playing for about 3 hours so itt could have been some ear fatigue. Thanks for the reply.

its funny this am the best tone I got in the past week was EQ>TS-808>Emissary Amp>nadir cab with Catharsis IR

 

[BassTard]

Thanks for the reply... I have tried out some of the above. see my replies in bold.

I'm glad some of the stuff helped. About the samplerates: a lot of the plugs have internal oversampling allready (e.g. Emissary defaults to 4x). So if your latency doesn't need it, chances are you won't hear a big change in the high frequencies. (Back in the day of 44.1Hz Ampsimulation, changing to 88.2 was a big deal for me.)

Let us know how you're making progress and have fun!

 

[ashgallows]

I think the irs make more of a difference than the amp. amplitube, guitar rig and revolver...I don't know what It is about those big name sims but I never got anything useable from them. whereas something like the nick crow plugins seem perfect right from loadup (if you want 5150). also a big thing is the pickup height on your guitar, try lower it a bit and it can make the sound a bit easier to work with if it is all harsh and shitty.

 

[Adee]

To be honest I wasn't never satisfied with amp sim sounds. Tried everything. I was nightmare to my friends when asked to borrow AmpliTube, Revalver etc, etc... Untiill I've started using real amps and cabs... Jeeez, it was like miracle! Everything used to sound brilliant in the mix directly from the mic! Without any EQ! I had real 6505 + 12x2 mesa cab + SM57 - sold it and decided to buy Kemper Profiler (some kind of happy medium) and now I'm really, really happy!

 

[chaztrip]

To be honest I wasn't never satisfied with amp sim sounds. Tried everything. I was nightmare to my friends when asked to borrow AmpliTube, Revalver etc, etc... Untiill I've started using real amps and cabs... Jeeez, it was like miracle! Everything used to sound brilliant in the mix directly from the mic! Without any EQ! I had real 6505 + 12x2 mesa cab + SM57 - sold it and decided to buy Kemper Profiler (some kind of happy medium) and now I'm really, really happy!

I think that I have found some decent solutions. I think for me is getting some decent tone to track with, which I have found. And then it comes down to learning more on how to eq, shape and mix the tone in a mix. Curious about the Kemper do use its internal cabinet/IR or roll it out to a 3rd party IR?

 

[Adee]

You can combine Kemper amp profiles with different cabs if you want but I usually use full, non split profiles (amp + cab). I know its still quite expensive stuff but believe me - Kemper is worth the money

Going back to my previous post about amp sim I forgot to mention that I didn't like it just only for heavy distorted guitars. It did work well with blues, light rock, punk etc.