Cool - I think this will be useful in some cases, but, in the most part I see myself sticking with BD.
Nice one for deciding to come back, I hope you stick around. Out of interest, have you switched to 9 yet (or any plans to do so)?
Pro Tools 9
- Thread starter Jarkko Mattheiszen
- Start date
Cool - I think this will be useful in some cases, but, in the most part I see myself sticking with BD.
Nice one for deciding to come back, I hope you stick around. Out of interest, have you switched to 9 yet (or any plans to do so)?
It's probably helped made me realise (along with the latest Sneap video) that everything doesn't need to be 100% to the grid accurate. When I get PT9, I'll likely be a bit easier on the "to the grid" drums.
darthjujuu
Member
thanks for the tip james!
but the beauty of the slip edit workflow really comes from user-defined macros that make it so a click will split under the cursor and without even releasing the mouse you're already slipping, while also employing some sort of quick/automated method for horizontal scrolling. and with the right macro and a bit of practice, this can become absolutely wizzard-like and surprisingly fast.
this method is PARTICULARLY popular with sneapsters, for the following reasons:
1. the best way to edit miserably played metal drums, with shitty blast beats and fake attempts at off-time crap and things where there's a million fast hits that will not snap to the correct place, EVER. the element of human judgment with every split becomes critical here.
2. can crank through songs in cubase/nuendo (which is how sturgis edits, obviously very influential here)
3. or in reaper (laptop bedroom warrior DAW of choice).
4. much less of a learning curve than beat detective, but with effectively the same end result.
edit: all reasons that, understandably, are completely irrelevant to a seasoned professional.
but the beauty of the slip edit workflow really comes from user-defined macros that make it so a click will split under the cursor and without even releasing the mouse you're already slipping, while also employing some sort of quick/automated method for horizontal scrolling. and with the right macro and a bit of practice, this can become absolutely wizzard-like and surprisingly fast.
this method is PARTICULARLY popular with sneapsters, for the following reasons:
1. the best way to edit miserably played metal drums, with shitty blast beats and fake attempts at off-time crap and things where there's a million fast hits that will not snap to the correct place, EVER. the element of human judgment with every split becomes critical here.
2. can crank through songs in cubase/nuendo (which is how sturgis edits, obviously very influential here)
3. or in reaper (laptop bedroom warrior DAW of choice).
4. much less of a learning curve than beat detective, but with effectively the same end result.
edit: all reasons that, understandably, are completely irrelevant to a seasoned professional.
::XeS::
Member
Hey James, nice to see you here after a long time.
I have a question for you about latency. When you work with a mobile rig and not with HD, how do you deal with latency?
I mean do you monitor through the software monitor (Protools)? Because when I use my dsp mixer (zero latency) and sw monitor at lowest buffer available, togheter....I hear a very noticeable delay between the 2 signals...so actually I have to monitor through dsp mixer, mute every track in PT, and de-mute when I have to listen the takes. Very annoying but I think it gives me a better musician's performance at the end of the day (because I think it's useless to be anal with musicians about the click, and record them with a 10ms latency).
So what's your opinion? I ask to you because there are 2 parties....the first that is very anal about latency and can hear also 1ms and the other one that says is unnoticeable at 512 samples...
Thanks
I have a question for you about latency. When you work with a mobile rig and not with HD, how do you deal with latency?
I mean do you monitor through the software monitor (Protools)? Because when I use my dsp mixer (zero latency) and sw monitor at lowest buffer available, togheter....I hear a very noticeable delay between the 2 signals...so actually I have to monitor through dsp mixer, mute every track in PT, and de-mute when I have to listen the takes. Very annoying but I think it gives me a better musician's performance at the end of the day (because I think it's useless to be anal with musicians about the click, and record them with a 10ms latency).
So what's your opinion? I ask to you because there are 2 parties....the first that is very anal about latency and can hear also 1ms and the other one that says is unnoticeable at 512 samples...
Thanks
Have you used BD in PT? I have to say its a misconception that Beat Detective is hard to learn - it's simple, intuitive and there are different ways of using it to suit whatever drums you're editing.
A good friend of mine unlinks edit and selection, cranks the beat detection sensitivity up then removes incorrect hits. You do this for each shell whilst deactivating groups (cmd+shift+g), then reactivate your drum group and apply the cuts to all your drums. Really good for stupidly complex stuff.
For simple rock grooves I'll do 16 bars at a time with all shells selected, then apply cuts to the whole drum group. If you're lucky you can do a song within half an hour.
AdamWathan
Member
I would still argue that BD has much more of a learning curve than slip editing... A monkey could slip edit stuff, it is totally braindead work
Beat Detective on the other hand has a bit of a personality sometimes 
Hehe...Most people don't even use Beat Detective properly to this day... Lots of people selecting based on the grid (which is wrong) and a lot of engineers I've talked to had no idea about being able to edit the trigger times for each slice!
you can't hear one millisecond, sorry.. anyone who says that has just psyched themselves out about it.
i set to the lowest sample buffer in my mobile LE rig, and never have any issues..... i simply don't add any plugins i don't have to, and everything's fine.
you need about 20-25 ms separation for most people in the world to be able to discern two distinct events when listening to two similar and largely coincident sounds (a phenomenon known as the Haas Effect). it's less, for sure, when actually playing.... you can feel much less in some cases, probably 15-20ms latency starts to become noticeable to the person actually playing...
but 512 samples at 44.1 is only 11ms and even less at 48, so it's not likely that the majority of players will feel that at all, certainly not to the extent that it causes them much issue... and this bears out in my experience recording some of the world's best players on my mobile LE rig.
yeah, anyone claiming to be able to hear 1ms latency is a head case and/or needs to loosen their arse-cheeks! Bº)
Ermz
¯\(°_o)/¯
I dare say a lot of these people fighting for 'the lowest buffer evarrr' are likely running plug-ins in their tracking session which are introducing this delay. It's likely a search for a solution in the wrong place. Admittedly real-world roundtrips are a fair bit longer than the buffer size alone would suggest, but even so anything under 512 should be absolutely fine as long as the session is set up right.
crillemannen
Member
I find it quite funny when people are comparing different soundcards and the fact that one has 32samples of latency and the other has 64 makes all thedifference in the world. haha. I agree 100% with you Murphy
::XeS::
Member
I'm with you about that....but LE users can benefit by the zero latency monitoring option, that theorically will act like a dsp mixer for the other cards. The only difference is that the zero latency monitoring automatically mute the armed tracks, when with an external dsp mixer is not available at the moment (so if you use all the 3rd part hardware available at the moment with PT9, Avid users actually still benefit this feature)
According to DV247, my copy should be here this week. Bout time too
Having just spoke to DV247 on the phone, anyone who ordered from them should expect it within 2 weeks, apparently. I'm tired of waiting. Mind you, I have no projects at present. I was going to cancel and re-order when they actually had it, but I decided fuck it, that money is invested already.
Time to put it into the 1176 build.
jipchen
ForesterStudio
Just bought the Mbox2Mini from Thomann (it's only 159€ atm) and ordered the AIR UsersBlog "special" deal - lol (170€.
The group buy was a BIG letdown, the discount is fucking ridiculous.
Nevertheless I get PT9 and a mobile Interface for my MacBook Pro for 330€, that's not bad at all. Thomann lists PT9 (full) for 595€.
. The group buy was a BIG letdown, the discount is fucking ridiculous.
Nevertheless I get PT9 and a mobile Interface for my MacBook Pro for 330€, that's not bad at all. Thomann lists PT9 (full) for 595€.
Jaymz
Stymphalian Productions
The details are here: http://www.ultimatemetal.com/forum/equipment/639357-pro-tools-9-potential-group-buy-199-a.html
But the e-mail says: "This is a members only deal, so please don't send this deal on to friends (they can't get it anyway) and we also ask you not to post it on blogs, Twitter or Facebook."
Don't worry, it was a minimal discount anyway.
Jaymz
Stymphalian Productions
Jaymz
Stymphalian Productions
darthjujuu
Member
yes, many times =]
absolutely, I agree. in fact the "james murphy" method (typing in numeric bar/beat values on specific beat markers) was introduced here about a year or so ago and i was totally oblivious to doing it like that, and I now consider it to be the 'right way', if there is one.
the key phrase here ^
but yea, BD is fantastic, just different tools for different jobs.
jipchen
ForesterStudio
Yeah sorry, I think we've reached a language barrier
Sorry for my lazy english.Jarkko got me right, I bought the Mbox2Mini from Thomann, and then the ProTools9 Crossgrade from LE advertised in the AIR UsersBlog mail..
The "special" was meant ironically, because a $20 discount is not special. Perhaps specially retarded.
I also liked the
"yeah, it's not quite as good an offer as the first one, but here's our supercool discount: $551 instead of $599.
But we can't print the price, nor show it on our website because it's so fucking low!"
Orly?
