Producer Machine: Eighteen Visions

[KeithRT99]

i think it was megadeth who did the separate cymbal/drum thing

 

[iekobrid]

If anyone wants to see how he works the RHCP DVD Funky Monks.

Or Aerosmith's "Making of PUMP" video. A&R man Jon Kalodner showing up every couple weeks to say "I like this, I don't like that" is a pretty good Rick Rubin emulation.

 

[gumplunger]

So what's the idea behind doing cymbals seperate? I don't understand why people are so afraid of cymbal bleed. Half the time after you've sample replaced the kick and maybe blended a snare sample for consistency, the drum mix tends to sound plenty sterile and seperated. Any more and you may as well just go with DFHS from the start.

The whole point is to get that seperation without any sampling and such and to be able to have more micing options. I think Ashes Of The Wake and Killing Joke's 2003 album (Dave Ghrol fucking rocks that album) are plenty proof that you can get ridiculously good tight and huge drum sounds using this technique without any samples.

 

[A Toolish Circle]

^ that's true , but Ashes of the wake sounds sound replaced to my ears even though it isn't , so they might as well have recorded the kit as a whole and replaced it with the NATURAL drums from chris adler's kit instead of using other samples

it's great to have so much separation but the ride is so riduculously loud and clear it's annoying

 

[A Toolish Circle]

oh btw , i have indeed tried out that technique with the last drummer i recorded and in the end when i mixed the whole product the results i got sounded almost the same as if i had recorded him and triggered the kit

and it takes double the time and effort for the drummer to do something like that , our job as engineers and producers is to make life easier for the artist !!!

in the context of metal i don't think it's worth it

 

[Omega_Void]

Re: what is better, master of one style or good at many.
Master of one, and leave the other styles to the the masters of those. IMHO.
It may be more satisying professionally to be able to say you're "versatile", but when I buy a CD I don't care what other work the producer's done, I just care what the CD sounds like.
There's more to a good-sounding mix than technical correctness.

 

[boiler]

I'm pretty sure the last 2 QOTSA records had drum tracks where the cymbals were tracked seperately....

 

[SteelRat]

As far as the "one trick pony" thing...yes, it shows a general breadth of knowledge to wander from genre to genre producing everything under the sun, but it also gives me personally, the feeling that the producer isn't making records of music he likes, just collecting as many paychecks as possible.

I really respect producers like Andy, who make a name for themselves doing the music they love, and can get to the level where they can pick and choose their projects and STILL produce the music they love, instead of just grabbing projects that pay...and making a bigger name for themselves...(ahem Lord-Alge ho's)

Variety is great...but when does it become avarice?

 

[nwright]

So, according to one of those 18 visions guys, you can't use condenser mikes with cymbals?



I don't like the idea of doing everything seperate. I'd prefer a drummer who can do it all together and be "on" and a producer or engineer who can mike the whole kit up right and get it to sound good...I guess I fail to see the necessity of doing it this way, except for completely anal reasons, which I'd think would take away from performance..But, I'm a noob.