Production info

Skaldir

Skaldir

formerly known as Unicorn
Nov 3, 2001
3,555
15
38
Germany
www.kalthallen.de
Hi there,
I thought it would be nice if we can have a producion thread in this forum, about Dan's productions.
I'm always interested in this stuff, so maybe I'm not the only one. :dopey:
I hope Dan will answer, because he's maybe the only one who knows the answers.

Anyway, I have a question about the new NG "Nightfall Overture" record concerning drums.
I have this feeling that the aren't acousic on this record. The cymbals, especially hihat, reminds me of the "Crimson II", which was completely e-drum kit with samples.
And the drums are sounding too seperated for real drums (missing overheads)
So, am I right?
 
Hi Unicorn.

Well...you are kind of right. The cymbals are all real. I used two microphones to catch them. 1 Rode Stereo Mike and 1 Beyer mike. The drums are a combination of samples and the real thing (like on 99% of the metal albums of today) As soon as the drums play more than 1 hit, I use the real drum and when it´s only "Fuck/Shit" playing, I replace the real drum with a 10 alternating/3 layer velocity sample of the original drumrecording. To obtain maximum separation and output level without losing punch.

Dan
 
Thanks for the quick answer.
The hihat sounds wide open and has the same high freq. boost which crimson II had, so I thought it was the same.
That's a good technique to use the real sound when it's more than one hit in a row, never thought about that.
I'll record drums this weekend and don't know how to place the overheads. I thought about xy, because its logical for my head, but I heard that non-coincident techniques sound more open.
I have to try.


Dan Swanö said:
Hi Unicorn.

Well...you are kind of right. The cymbals are all real. I used two microphones to catch them. 1 Rode Stereo Mike and 1 Beyer mike. The drums are a combination of samples and the real thing (like on 99% of the metal albums of today) As soon as the drums play more than 1 hit, I use the real drum and when it´s only "Fuck/Shit" playing, I replace the real drum with a 10 alternating/3 layer velocity sample of the original drumrecording. To obtain maximum separation and output level without losing punch.

Dan
Click to expand...
 
The cymbals are always a bitch. And Tom´s hihat is a real mean bastard that sounds a lot louder than anything else in the kit, and that´s why the hihat ended up being so wide. I couldn´t use the hihat mike at all, because then the balance was all fucked up. I like to spot mike cymbals. It´s good to have them there if the music relies a lot on crashriding...one other good way is to use a split stereo...One mike on left and one on right (A but fucked with phase, but people who listen in mono doesn´t count anyway) then there´s this plug in from Waves called c1+ that can be set so it compresses only a certain frequency. So try the preset called DePlopper and set the frequency to around 400 and widen the Q a bit and work with the threshold and most of the drums will dissappear from the overhead tracks leaving the cymbals alone there...works magic and improves he sound of each drum a lot...also try with the fastest attack time and the predelay pushed in a leave the release time around 5 or 10 (make sure it doesn´t distort) I sometimes take the ratio all the way to -5:1..any questions...let me know...drumrecording is cool!!!
 
Wow! Now thats a detailed post. I am not sure what most of it means, but I know that Dan knows what he is doing! The drum sound he is getting on our mix is incredible. Listening to our drum sound before Dan fixed everything and then hearing it now is nothing short of amazing.
 
Thanks. I'll try with the C1.
Is Tom playing two Bottom Cymbals at HiHat? That's pretty loud...

Here's the list of the mikes I will be using:

Shure Beta 91 or AKG C-547 BL for Bassdrum (Kick)

Neumann U87 for Bassdrum (Body)

Shure Sm7 for Snare

Neumann KM184 for Overheads

Neumann KMS85 for Hihat or Ride

Sennheiser MKH50 for Hihat or Ride

Sennheiser MD 441 or Sennheiser e604 for Toms
 
yummie...list of mikes....I like Beta 91 for kicks. Shure Beta 57 for snare top and bottom. Beta 98 for toms and Ribbonmikes for overheads...good luck with that
 
Thanx...

Just wait until you hear the entire album.. I will make a mixdown of it tonight.
The sound is fucking unbeliavable...and pretty close to you-know-what!!!

D

Danimal said:
Wow! Now thats a detailed post. I am not sure what most of it means, but I know that Dan knows what he is doing! The drum sound he is getting on our mix is incredible. Listening to our drum sound before Dan fixed everything and then hearing it now is nothing short of amazing.
Click to expand...
 
Dan Swanö said:
yummie...list of mikes....I like Beta 91 for kicks. Shure Beta 57 for snare top and bottom. Beta 98 for toms and Ribbonmikes for overheads...good luck with that
Click to expand...

Unfortuately the mikes are all borrowed. :Smug:
I'd love to have ribbon mikes. I thought about buying the one from Oktava, that's an russian mike manufactorer.
Beta 98, I have to try it.
But you should try Sennheiser MD 441 if you get some. They look strange (70s style) and are huge, but pretty good for toms.
But I shouldn't tell you what to do. :worship: forgive me... :worship:
 
Another question..
The synth solo on "Better safe than sorry". the sound you're using sounds quite similar to the one you used in "Mordet i grottan".
Is it the same, and what kind of synth is it?
 
Dude...that sounds like a sick mic setup (borrowing or not). You should easily be able to get an awesome drum sound.

Even with those mics, though, I would do what Dan said and use a combination of fake and real drum sounds. Like he said, most metal records nowadays are a combo of real+fake sounds. If you want a real badass bass drum sound, you may even want to create a "mic tunnel" to get more isolation.

What I usually do is get some awesome drum samples (particularly snare and bass drum) and mix them w/ whatever I end up recording to get a particular sort of sound.

This thread rules, btw---I could talk about recording/engineering all day!! :)

Unicorn said:
Thanks. I'll try with the C1.
Is Tom playing two Bottom Cymbals at HiHat? That's pretty loud...

Here's the list of the mikes I will be using:

Shure Beta 91 or AKG C-547 BL for Bassdrum (Kick)

Neumann U87 for Bassdrum (Body)

Shure Sm7 for Snare

Neumann KM184 for Overheads

Neumann KMS85 for Hihat or Ride

Sennheiser MKH50 for Hihat or Ride

Sennheiser MD 441 or Sennheiser e604 for Toms
Click to expand...
 
Unicorn said:
Oh man, Edguy. If Dan steels Edguy souds I'll kill myself. ;-)
It's kinda Moog, but what exactly?
Click to expand...

It´s the "Open Lead" preset from pro-53 softsynth..
Looovely sound...almost as good as the JP8000 "Dual Mini´s" that I used a bit toomuch on Moontower!!!

D
 
Highking said:
Dude...that sounds like a sick mic setup (borrowing or not). You should easily be able to get an awesome drum sound.

Even with those mics, though, I would do what Dan said and use a combination of fake and real drum sounds. Like he said, most metal records nowadays are a combo of real+fake sounds. If you want a real badass bass drum sound, you may even want to create a "mic tunnel" to get more isolation.

What I usually do is get some awesome drum samples (particularly snare and bass drum) and mix them w/ whatever I end up recording to get a particular sort of sound.

This thread rules, btw---I could talk about recording/engineering all day!! :)
Click to expand...

Hey Highking,

now that I begun to mix I can see what I need. I think I will add a sample to the Bassdrum and the Snare, alltough I like their sound. I got a kickdrum sound like Pantera, the problem is that the playing is not constantly. But I will add a sample from the Bassdrum I recorded, but I need a Snare-sample.
Funnily enough my main problem is the sound of the HiHat, which just doesn't sound good in general. Good that it's not too loud on overheads..

Dan, I tried the thing with the C1 depopper, and it worked well! Thanks for that.

I'll post some music after more days of mixing. :D
 
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