http://www.facebook.com/notes/progp...-interview-with-warrel-dane/10150246368974819
The following interview will be published in the ProgPower USA XII program that is distributed to all fans at the festival. Interviews with all of this year's bands will be also be included, and subsequently posted on the ProgPower USA website after the event.
Interview conducted by Greg Hasbrouck.
Greg: How are you?
Warrel Dane: I'm good.
Greg: First of all, I want to ask you, how's Jim (Sheppard) doing?
Warrel: He's been great. It's about a six month recovery period, after you have major brain surgery... the kind that he
had. It's only been a little over three months now. He's doing well. Actually recovering better than they expected
him to. But still, it's a little bit of a long road with something like that.
Greg: And it will be a full recovery, right?
Warrel: Oh yeah. Yeah... his brain tumor was not malignant, and they got all of it out. And he had a rock star neurosurgeon.
Greg: Let's start off with some rather rote questions. For those younger fans that may not be familiar with SANCTUARY, can you talk a little about SANCTUARY's formative days?
Warrel: Obviously, it's a matter of public record that Dave Mustaine (MEGADETH) discovered SANCTUARY. Me, Lenny, and Jim... we all went to a KING DIAMOND show at the Moore Theatre in Seattle (August 8, 1986) and MEGADETH was opening for KING DIAMOND. It sounds odd in retrospect. At the time, it was the level they were at. That was right when Peace Sells (but Who's Buying) was about to drop. At some point, there were girls involved with large breasts...
Greg: (laughter) There always are.
Warrel: We shoved into the hotel room before they walked in. That tends to work. Apparently Mustaine liked our demo tape, after we brought him down to the garage to listen to it in somebody's car, I don't remember whose. He was really enthusiastic and said he wanted to produce a record for us, and we were like, "OK...I'll believe it when it happens." Everybody was a little enhanced at the point.
Greg: Sure... it was the 80s. (mutual laughter)
Warrel: Yeah... we weren't really sure if it was going to play out. It did. Two weeks later we got the phone call.
Greg: And how long had SANCTUARY been active before you got your demo in Dave's hands?
Warrel: Two, three years maybe.
Greg: So to skip ahead a bit, you guys did the two albums, you got some video play on the Headbanger's Ball, and the band was beginning to make some waves. Unfortunately, it seems the band was a victim of the Metal scene becoming a parody of itself and imploding. From the inside looking out, is that really what led to SANCTUARY breaking up?
Warrel: I think... kind of. I think at the same time, a lot of our friends were getting really famous. That whole time period was weird, especially in Seattle. If you were playing anything remotely Metal, people thought you were just a piece of crap. Especially the elite musicians, at the time. They were Grunge people... they had no respect for anybody who wasn't doing what they were doing. I remember very clearly, an encounter I had with someone, who was in a very, very popular band. We were on the same label, and he was just such an ASS to me, it wasn't funny. I could tell you the guys name, but I'm not gonna.
Greg: I grew up in those days, and the great irony to me, and perhaps you, is the first time I heard SOUNDGARDEN's Badmotorfinger, or ALICE IN CHAINS' Facelift, I had no idea that those records represented some new sub-genre. And I don't think anyone did, until MTV told everyone it was "Grunge". It didn't sound like some giant departure to me.
Warrel: Well, you know, ALICE IN CHAINS are the most Metal out of anyone from that era. It's why I love them so
much. And I knew Layne (Staley) pretty well. And, I actually like their new record. I didn't want to... and that's
kind of the same reaction you get from a lot of people. You don't want to like it, but you have to, because Jerry is such an undeniably great songwriter. And he sings most of the stuff on that record... I think. That's probably why
it's so good. But the new guy is good too. He's not Layne.
Greg: Yeah... nobody is. So, how long had you been toying with the idea of reforming SANCTUARY?
Warrel: Well... for a couple of years. We've always talked to each other (Lenny Rutledge), but never really been friends again. And when the whole thing came about, that we were actually friends again, that's when we started talking more about doing it. And it definitely wasn't because NEVERMORE was imploding... which it was, at that point. NEVERMORE... the greatest band that alcohol ever ruined.
Greg: (laughter) I love that!
Warrel: It's true. We all just started talking with each other again. That was kind of the groundwork for it. And then
we started saying, "Well gosh, let's make music again." And my god! Lenny is writing some stuff that is so friggin great! Obviously, he's been bottling this up for years, because he really hasn't been doing anything... well, he's had bands here and there. But he's really writing some great stuff that's really inspiring me, and making me fall in love with music again, with the creative process... everything that revolves around that. Really inspiring me to write
really evil lyrics.
Greg: So, as we find ourselves here in 2011, what do you think the biggest difference is between how you're approaching this now, than if you were writing this as your third album back in 1993?
Warrel: Well... that's a hard one. It's kind of like a different phase. This record is not going to sound like the other two. It might sound very similar to the second one (Into the Mirror Black). It's definitely not going to sound like the
first one... (mutual laughter) ... because we're all a little bit older and I can't come up with a c-clamp for a scrotum and a helium tank.
Greg: (laughter) Speaking of that, has any singer, in the history of the genre, been haunted by a song like the way
you are by "Battle Angels"?
Warrel: (laughter) I don't know. I can still sing it. I might not sing it as good.
Greg: I read that you were taking some vocal training to try to regain that upper part of your register. Is that true?
Warrel: I did do that.
Greg: And is the upper register something you plan on carrying forth on the new material, or is it just so you can better perform the old material, live?
Warrel: It initially started out that I wanted to be able to recreate those old songs as well as possible. In NEVERMORE,
I don't use my high register that much. I realized I got to have some refresher courses... more training. It definitely paid off. Because, unless you sing that way consistently, you forget stuff. I remember the first week of practice with SANCTUARY, it was really hard for me. Then the second week it got a hell of lot easier, just because I was doing it all the time.
Greg: Almost like muscle memory?
Warrel: Yeah, exactly. And the other guys were saying, "Wow... we saw you come from 50% up to 80% now." It's the kind of singing you have to do it all the time or else you lose it. And since I'm a natural baritone, falsetto might be a little bit harder for me, than most guys who are tenors.
Greg: I know you were trained formally when you began your career. And as you just explained, you recently spent
some time training formally to recapture your upper register. Is that something you've always done?
Warrel: Back in the SANCTUARY days... before that actually, I took about five years of classical opera training, at the Cornish Institute in Seattle. And I had a great, great voice teacher, she was crazy. That's why I loved her so
much. She made me do weird things, like stand on my head and learn how to breathe.
Greg: That seems like it would come in handy.
Warrel: It was really, really fun. You know, I realized that I had forgotten a lot of technique. I think a lot of people go back and take more training too, and they just don't tell you about it. Because it is kind of hard to remember, if
you're not always on top of it. You're never too old to learn something new. So, why not go back and take more lessons? And that's what I did and it really did help.
Greg: I would assume Mustaine isn't producing the new disc. Are you working with Peter (Wichers) or Andy
(Sneap), or somebody completely different?
Warrel: I don't want to let the cat out of the bag...
Greg: OK... what can you reveal about the new disc? Are you targeting a release date yet? Are all the songs written? Is it just a matter of tracking them? Where is everything as it stands today?
Warrel: We're in the writing process. I can give you, maybe, a little bit of an exclusive thing right now. I think the record is going to be called, The Year the Sun Died. And there's a lot of stuff playing into that, and you can read whatever you want to for right now into it. God, that song is really good. We've been working really hard on that. It's not going to sound like the old ones... it's 2011. It's still gonna be that good I think, and there's gonna be high-pitched screaming. I'm making sure of that. With NEVERMORE high-pitched screaming was never really called for. You know, with SANCTUARY... of course it is.
Greg: So that touches upon something that always fascinates me; the dual expectation of fans. In one breath they
want you to remain true to your sound, and in the next they want you to evolve. So be it with SANCTUARY or NEVERMORE or your solo material, is that something you're aware of? Or do you just think, fuck it, I'm going to
write what makes me happy?
Warrel: Well, that's something that's always in the back of my mind. But yeah, at the end of the day, it has to
make me happy. And if it makes me happy, that motivates me further and makes me write better still. I know a lot of people are going to expect Refuge Denied, but it's just not going to happen. That was a time and a place that was special and can't be duplicated. And as much as I love it, and as much as we all have been sitting around... in a campfire situation, talking about the old days and how great they were... I'm like, "Oh my god. We're so fucking old now." But we're really not. By the way, Lenny lives up in the mountains... it's so beautiful up there. It's a great place to create and it's been really inspirational, as far as getting stuff together and writing.
Greg: It seems like nature is something you draw an extra layer of inspiration from. I recall reading that you were
very inspired by water when you were writing Dreaming Neon Black.
Warrel: Exactly... I was, because I lived on Lake Washington, in a condo, the end unit, that was right on the water.
And water was very close to me for that. And obviously that had a lot of influence on the songwriting. And eventually it was discovered, that she was probably drowned (referring to the inspiration behind Dreaming Neon Black).
Greg: And just for my own edification, the woman in the song "Dreaming Neon Black", she's a friend? A girlfriend?
Warrel: She was my girlfriend, yes.
Greg: OK... so sticking with the topic of songwriting, when you write, does the music come before the lyrics? Does
it change depending on who you're writing with? Is it always the same?
Warrel: It's never the same. I have a special place, near the water down here... I can walk down there from where I
live. It's about a twenty minute hike. There's this beautiful place that I've found, that nobody knows about, and I call it my "secret alcove"... because nobody knows about it. There's these big, burned out trees that have fallen over, and I'm not sure how that really all happened, but nobody really goes down there. And I just sit there sometimes and write lyrics. And it's really, really, really cool. I love living in the Pacific Northwest. I don't think there's a better place in the world actually. I'm going to go down there later today.
Greg: That's interesting. Clearly lyrics are very important to you. One of the things I've always found interesting as a fan of the Metal genre, is despite the fact that there's a ton of creativity and just some brilliant musicianship, yet lyrics often seem like an afterthought. So, assuming it seems that way to you as well, why do you think that's so?
Warrel: Well... I think that... with whatever project I'm involved with, music is always very important, but lyrics are what I do, so I'm going to put more focus on that. I really enjoy the fact that, people that want to get into lyrics, can really get into them... whatever I'm doing. And if you don't want to, you don't have to because the music is always good. There are some fans that really don't care about lyrics. But, if you do, they're there. And for me, that's my first love... well, obviously singing. But the lyrical aspect of it is really important to me. If you dig that kind of thing, you're going to find them. It's worked out so far.
Greg: So besides obviously Paul Simon, who are some of your favorite lyricists... either within or outside the Metal genre?
Warrel: Paul Simon of course. If you go back and listen to some of those old SIMON & GARFUNKEL songs, man... he
must have either been really stoned or really depressed or something. Those lyrics to me are so amazing. And it's all so depressing. And I think that's where I got my inspiration for the depressing side of stuff that I usually focus on. Who else is good? Hmmm... I really love ANATHEMA. I love the lyrics to Alternative 4, I love the lyrics to Judgement, I love the lyrics to A Fine Day to Exit... they're just amazing. I really, really, really like... CANNIBAL CORPSE. (mutual laughter) This is just going off the mark for a second... you have to take it tongue in cheek, but they're so absurdly awesome. Especially "Hammer Smashed Face" or "Entrails Ripped From a Virgin's Cunt". I listen to a wide variety of things. I'm not really taking inspiration from that... but I love Death Metal.
Greg: It's interesting what you said about how dark the Paul Simon's lyrics are. I don't think that ever truly concerned to me until I heard your re-imagining of "The Sound of Silence", given how bleak the music is, and just how at home those lyrics are against that musical backdrop.
Warrel: Right. You know what, spend an entire day with their musical catalog and a joint. You might never be the same.
Greg: Now that sounds like an interesting thought experiment. So, let's switch directions for a bit. SANCTUARY will be playing ProgPower XII in September... it's the reason we're speaking today. Do you have any expectations for the festival?
Warrel: I just know it's going to be really good. We're working on some things that are going to be pretty cool... and we're all really looking forward to it.
Greg: And SANCTUARY is going to begin touring shortly there after? Is that the plan?
Warrel: That's kind of the plan at this point. We'll see what works out.
Greg: So if I can assume Jeff (Loomis) is not going to be the second guitar player, do you know who is yet?
Warrel: Kind of... yeah... I don't want to...
Greg: Still under wraps... got it.
Warrel: It's really been kind of interesting to me, how many people, of very high caliber musicianship, are contacting me wanting Jeff's old job.
Greg: In NEVERMORE, SANCTUARY or both?
Warrel: Both.
Greg: So let's segue there. The obvious first question, is NEVERMORE done?
Warrel: No.
Greg: Definitely not? There will definitely be another NEVERMORE album?
Warrel: Oh yeah.
Greg: Perfect. And can you ever see yourself reconciling with Jeff and Van (Williams) or are those bridges burned?
Warrel: One bridge is burned, the other I'm still... It's like getting a very painful divorce. If you want to repair the situation you can, but there's one where I don't want to. I miss those guys. I think they made bad decisions. I'm going to Emo if I keep talking about it.
Greg: Understood. Let me ask you this. At one point, there were all these rumors about disharmony within the camp. And on the (NEVERMORE) forum you made the comment, "... after so many years together you become a family, of course we fucking fight, we make up..." Was that you trying to keep the peace and keeping the alarmist element from rearing its head?
Warrel: Kind of, yeah.
Greg: So, were you genuinely surprised when they quit or was that a long time coming?
Warrel: Yes... I was. I was extremely surprised and very, very upset and still am. As I... uh, yeah... I don't want to get messy.
Greg: OK... more of general question about NEVERMORE. As a fan of the band, it always seemed that NEVERMORE had just a bit of bad luck, or perhaps was the victim of poor timing. When you look back on it, from the inside looking out, does it seem the same to you?
Warrel: I think we had out fair share of bad timing and we had our fair share of disorganization within the camp. That's kind of what played into everything that happened. But I don't think I would really change anything, because everything happens for a reason. And the reason I'm here right now, and I'm talking to you is for a reason... and those guys decided that they didn't have as bad of an alcohol problem as I did... is for a reason. And, whatever...
Greg: So I had a chance to chat with Jim a few times during the last tour. Aside from all that he was dealing with, he told me that there was a bad cold ripping through the band. I think he called the tour bus "a rolling incubator".
Warrel: (laughter) Yeah... it's a rolling Petri dish.
Greg: (laughter) So... when you're a guitar player or drummer, you can fake 90 minutes of energy. However, as a singer, your body is your instrument. When you know youre taking the stage and you don't have your fastball, is that scary as hell?
Warrel: Yeah. The two most important things for a singer when youre on tour, sleep and as much water as you can
drink. Stay hydrated, and you got to sleep. Some times that's not always possible on a tour bus full of drunk people.
I didn't sleep a whole lot on the last NEVERMORE tour.
Greg: Is that because of all that was going on internally within the band, or because of where you were at mentally?
Warrel: I have my own problems, so I'm not going to point fingers at anybody, but it was hard to sleep. But yeah...
you learn how to use your instrument, you learn how to not damage it, and the most important thing for me is sleep.
Greg: So sticking with the baseball analogy... I've always drawn a parallel between pitchers and singers. You begin your career by overpowering people, but as you grow older, you learn the subtleties of your profession and do more with nuance than power. Do you see it in a similar vein?
Warrel: I think when you're young and you're starting out, you've got a point to prove. This is why I sang as high as
possible on the first SANCTUARY record, because I could. And still can, but maybe not in the same capacity. For me, it's now like just writing a good song... not having a point to prove, just proving that you can write a good song. I think that's where they have staying power, that's where they settle into, they settle into that place of just becoming great songwriters. That's always my goal, to be a great songwriter. I think I was really good songwriter, I think
I'm a much better songwriter now, and I think I can be a much better songwriter in the future too. So it's a learning
and growing experience for me. Your voice changes as you age, there's no way to escape that. And I'm just learning how to use it in the best possible way, within all the changes.
Greg: So let's talk a bit about your solo CD. First, how long had you had it in your head that you wanted to do a solo
CD, before it actually came to fruition and you began making plans?
Warrel: Well, I've always wanted to do one, somewhere in the middle of my career, just because I have such affection for Rock music. I always wanted to do something that was more Rock... Rock and Roll, and not something that you had to wrap your head around and show off your technical skills with. That's not a slam on anybody, by any means. It's just something I wanted to try, try writing Rock music. Even though it was still, obviously, a little bit Metal.
That's why I wanted to do it, and I still want to do it again. I'm working on another one already.
Greg: I definitely want to get to that. However, can you maybe first talk a little bit about the genesis of the
relationship with Peter?
Warrel: NEVERMORE toured with SOILWORK, in I think, 2000. We struck up a really good friendship. All the guys in both bands, we were all really friends. When I decided that I was actually going to make it happen and do a solo record, I focused on people that I admired as songwriters, and Peter was one of them. People can say whatever they want to say about being a sellout or whatever, but I don't view it as that. I just view it as having an opportunity to
write things that were unexplored for me at that point. And I'm so proud of that record, and there's going to be another one... definitely. I'm working on it right now actually. Oh god I have too many projects. I'm good at multitasking.
Greg: So that raises an interesting question. A few months ago, no one would have asked you what you consider your
primary project to be, it would have just been presumed to be NEVERMORE. If I ask you that question today, how do you respond?
Warrel: That would be SANCTUARY right now. I am working on solo stuff, but the music is so different that it's easy
for me to go into different modes. And actually, well, there is a couple of ideas being thrown around for the next
NEVERMORE too, which is going to be really good if the preliminary stuff is any indication... to tell you the truth, I'm not really happy with the last NEVERMORE record.
Greg: What specifically weren't you happy with? Can you put your finger on it or was it just an overall quality issue?
Warrel: No... I think the production was amazing. I really enjoyed a lot of the lyrics I wrote for it. (laughter) I just felt like it was more of the same and that's just not what we should have been doing at that point. But there were a lot of factors involved with why it turned out that way. I'm still proud of it... it's not my favorite.
Greg: So, with respect to the next solo disc, will it be you and Peter again? Will it be the same line up?
Warrel: Well, we talked about it a little bit. Right now I'm working with Matt Wicklund, whose currently playing in GOD FORBID, and he wrote a couple of the really great songs on Praises to the War Machine. We're working on stuff together, were working very aggressively right now. And he's writing some great, great stuff. And it is completely different from SANCTUARY, so it's easy to separate that. Stuff Lenny is writing is really, really good. It seems like he's been holding this stuff back for years and he's been let out of his cage and it's really inspiring. It's just a really good time for me. And I thought this would be a dark period, because of everything... It's turning out to be kind of a blessing in disguise to quote METAL CHURCH.
Greg: (laughter) Great reference. So, I have to ask you about the song "Brother". Between the lyrics and the vocal performance, it has to be one of the most intensely personal songs I've ever heard. Did you struggle at all with writing it, recording it or even deciding whether or not to include it on Praises to the War Machine?
Warrel: Yeah... it is the most personal thing I've ever done and it was really difficult to do that video. There's a
reason I look like fucking utter shit in that video, it's because I fucking went off the deep end... in disbelief, oh my god, I'm not actually going to make this into a video, I can't do this, I can't do this to my brother. But at the same time, he's kind of a.... well, yeah. And the day I did that, I was messed up. And I realized while I was doing it, that I needed to be messed up while I was doing it, and I needed to look like complete crap. And the message is, my brother was never close with me and I've always wanted a closer relationship with him, and I never got it and I guess a little bitter about it. But maybe as a family member, maybe I'm entitled to be bitter about not having that relationship. I just remember him standing with me in the hospital room when my Dad died. He just said, "You're just too young to go through this." OK... well, I am. I don't really have a choice here. And that's where the line comes in, "You said I was just too young." Something that kind of emotionally scarred me.
Greg: Wow... yeah, aside from the lyrics, there's just something about the vocal performance that just cuts to the bone. Clearly the performance sounds inspired.
Warrel: It was inspired by pain. I guess you get your inspiration where ever you can get it. That's probably one of my favorite performances I've ever done, besides the title track to Dreaming Neon Black.
Greg: That has to be one of my favorite songs of all time. In large part, because of that vocal performance. You know, I heard that you performed that song once with Christina Scabbia (LACUNA COIL) handling the female vocals.
Warrel: Yes! We did it Milan. She was amazing! Nobody has any video of it.
Greg: I was really hoping you guys would have gotten her to perform that with you for the Year of the Voyager DVD.
Warrel: That would have been great, and I would love to do a duet with Christina. I would love to, in the future, do something with her. I asked her once, if she would sing on one of the NEVERMORE records, and there was a
scheduling problem.
Greg: So getting back to the solo disc for a second, one of the things that stands out are the covers. They're not
so much covers, as they a re-imaginings. Have you ever considered doing an entire album like that?
Warrel: That's been suggested by some people. And I've always had that in the back of my mind. Johnny Cash pulled it off really well, but I'm not Johnny Cash. (mutual laughter) I do have a catalog of songs that I would love to do. But some of them are kind of sacred ground. Really, "Lucretia" (My Reflection) was sacred ground too. But after I heard the way Matt interpreted it, there was really no question as to whether it should be done or not. I might do that eventually, I don't know.
Greg: I wish I could find the exact quote. But I recall reading an interview you gave, where you spoke about the
downfall of Metal in the 90s. And in essence, you said its collapse was a good thing for it, because it forced a lot
of pissed off people to go back into their basements and create a lot of great music. To that end, do you think
financial success and Metal are almost antithetical?
Warrel: Huh. Yeah... at some point, yeah. Metal has always been driven underground and had always had some kind of resurgence due to the fact that the musicians were fucking pissed off. And that has always reinvigorated the genre, at various points in music history. I'm so really discouraged by the current state of Metal. If you live in Seattle and you listen to the radio, every god damn fucking band sounds exactly the same. We have Metal Shop still, and then still, every band sounds the same. Even commercial Rock radio, every band sounds fucking exactly the same. God, its weird. I don't know what the hell I'm listening to anymore when I get into my car. I'm just so sick of it, I just want to lock myself in the closet and write the best Metal record ever. Who knows if that will happen, but I'm going to try.
Greg: As a band at the tier that NEVERMORE is at, where you can do headline tours in the U.S. and Europe, and you're pushing to get to the next level, is it frustrating that the genre's stalwarts like IRON MAIDEN and JUDAS PRIEST,
continue to take around these crappy, FM-Metal bands, rather than pass the torch?
Warrel: That's annoying... yeah. It's not the bigger bands deciding stuff like this. It's just the booking agents, and whatever the flavor of the month is, they're going to want to throw that on a big band package.
Greg: You've been at this since 1987. You've sold a lot of records, toured the world. Do you still have any goals,
anything you'd like to accomplish, beyond growing as a songwriter and a performer?
Warrel: That's pretty much all I can hope for, is just evolving as a songwriter and getting better at that. Writing more
good songs... I know that's already happening. There's a lot of things I would like to do. I like to do more work doing voiceovers. I had such a great time when I did Dethclok. Do movies too... I don't know. Everybody's got goals... branch out into acting, because that's pretty much what I do on stage every night.
The following interview will be published in the ProgPower USA XII program that is distributed to all fans at the festival. Interviews with all of this year's bands will be also be included, and subsequently posted on the ProgPower USA website after the event.
Interview conducted by Greg Hasbrouck.
Greg: How are you?
Warrel Dane: I'm good.
Greg: First of all, I want to ask you, how's Jim (Sheppard) doing?
Warrel: He's been great. It's about a six month recovery period, after you have major brain surgery... the kind that he
had. It's only been a little over three months now. He's doing well. Actually recovering better than they expected
him to. But still, it's a little bit of a long road with something like that.
Greg: And it will be a full recovery, right?
Warrel: Oh yeah. Yeah... his brain tumor was not malignant, and they got all of it out. And he had a rock star neurosurgeon.
Greg: Let's start off with some rather rote questions. For those younger fans that may not be familiar with SANCTUARY, can you talk a little about SANCTUARY's formative days?
Warrel: Obviously, it's a matter of public record that Dave Mustaine (MEGADETH) discovered SANCTUARY. Me, Lenny, and Jim... we all went to a KING DIAMOND show at the Moore Theatre in Seattle (August 8, 1986) and MEGADETH was opening for KING DIAMOND. It sounds odd in retrospect. At the time, it was the level they were at. That was right when Peace Sells (but Who's Buying) was about to drop. At some point, there were girls involved with large breasts...
Greg: (laughter) There always are.
Warrel: We shoved into the hotel room before they walked in. That tends to work. Apparently Mustaine liked our demo tape, after we brought him down to the garage to listen to it in somebody's car, I don't remember whose. He was really enthusiastic and said he wanted to produce a record for us, and we were like, "OK...I'll believe it when it happens." Everybody was a little enhanced at the point.
Greg: Sure... it was the 80s. (mutual laughter)
Warrel: Yeah... we weren't really sure if it was going to play out. It did. Two weeks later we got the phone call.
Greg: And how long had SANCTUARY been active before you got your demo in Dave's hands?
Warrel: Two, three years maybe.
Greg: So to skip ahead a bit, you guys did the two albums, you got some video play on the Headbanger's Ball, and the band was beginning to make some waves. Unfortunately, it seems the band was a victim of the Metal scene becoming a parody of itself and imploding. From the inside looking out, is that really what led to SANCTUARY breaking up?
Warrel: I think... kind of. I think at the same time, a lot of our friends were getting really famous. That whole time period was weird, especially in Seattle. If you were playing anything remotely Metal, people thought you were just a piece of crap. Especially the elite musicians, at the time. They were Grunge people... they had no respect for anybody who wasn't doing what they were doing. I remember very clearly, an encounter I had with someone, who was in a very, very popular band. We were on the same label, and he was just such an ASS to me, it wasn't funny. I could tell you the guys name, but I'm not gonna.
Greg: I grew up in those days, and the great irony to me, and perhaps you, is the first time I heard SOUNDGARDEN's Badmotorfinger, or ALICE IN CHAINS' Facelift, I had no idea that those records represented some new sub-genre. And I don't think anyone did, until MTV told everyone it was "Grunge". It didn't sound like some giant departure to me.
Warrel: Well, you know, ALICE IN CHAINS are the most Metal out of anyone from that era. It's why I love them so
much. And I knew Layne (Staley) pretty well. And, I actually like their new record. I didn't want to... and that's
kind of the same reaction you get from a lot of people. You don't want to like it, but you have to, because Jerry is such an undeniably great songwriter. And he sings most of the stuff on that record... I think. That's probably why
it's so good. But the new guy is good too. He's not Layne.
Greg: Yeah... nobody is. So, how long had you been toying with the idea of reforming SANCTUARY?
Warrel: Well... for a couple of years. We've always talked to each other (Lenny Rutledge), but never really been friends again. And when the whole thing came about, that we were actually friends again, that's when we started talking more about doing it. And it definitely wasn't because NEVERMORE was imploding... which it was, at that point. NEVERMORE... the greatest band that alcohol ever ruined.
Greg: (laughter) I love that!
Warrel: It's true. We all just started talking with each other again. That was kind of the groundwork for it. And then
we started saying, "Well gosh, let's make music again." And my god! Lenny is writing some stuff that is so friggin great! Obviously, he's been bottling this up for years, because he really hasn't been doing anything... well, he's had bands here and there. But he's really writing some great stuff that's really inspiring me, and making me fall in love with music again, with the creative process... everything that revolves around that. Really inspiring me to write
really evil lyrics.
Greg: So, as we find ourselves here in 2011, what do you think the biggest difference is between how you're approaching this now, than if you were writing this as your third album back in 1993?
Warrel: Well... that's a hard one. It's kind of like a different phase. This record is not going to sound like the other two. It might sound very similar to the second one (Into the Mirror Black). It's definitely not going to sound like the
first one... (mutual laughter) ... because we're all a little bit older and I can't come up with a c-clamp for a scrotum and a helium tank.
Greg: (laughter) Speaking of that, has any singer, in the history of the genre, been haunted by a song like the way
you are by "Battle Angels"?
Warrel: (laughter) I don't know. I can still sing it. I might not sing it as good.
Greg: I read that you were taking some vocal training to try to regain that upper part of your register. Is that true?
Warrel: I did do that.
Greg: And is the upper register something you plan on carrying forth on the new material, or is it just so you can better perform the old material, live?
Warrel: It initially started out that I wanted to be able to recreate those old songs as well as possible. In NEVERMORE,
I don't use my high register that much. I realized I got to have some refresher courses... more training. It definitely paid off. Because, unless you sing that way consistently, you forget stuff. I remember the first week of practice with SANCTUARY, it was really hard for me. Then the second week it got a hell of lot easier, just because I was doing it all the time.
Greg: Almost like muscle memory?
Warrel: Yeah, exactly. And the other guys were saying, "Wow... we saw you come from 50% up to 80% now." It's the kind of singing you have to do it all the time or else you lose it. And since I'm a natural baritone, falsetto might be a little bit harder for me, than most guys who are tenors.
Greg: I know you were trained formally when you began your career. And as you just explained, you recently spent
some time training formally to recapture your upper register. Is that something you've always done?
Warrel: Back in the SANCTUARY days... before that actually, I took about five years of classical opera training, at the Cornish Institute in Seattle. And I had a great, great voice teacher, she was crazy. That's why I loved her so
much. She made me do weird things, like stand on my head and learn how to breathe.
Greg: That seems like it would come in handy.
Warrel: It was really, really fun. You know, I realized that I had forgotten a lot of technique. I think a lot of people go back and take more training too, and they just don't tell you about it. Because it is kind of hard to remember, if
you're not always on top of it. You're never too old to learn something new. So, why not go back and take more lessons? And that's what I did and it really did help.
Greg: I would assume Mustaine isn't producing the new disc. Are you working with Peter (Wichers) or Andy
(Sneap), or somebody completely different?
Warrel: I don't want to let the cat out of the bag...
Greg: OK... what can you reveal about the new disc? Are you targeting a release date yet? Are all the songs written? Is it just a matter of tracking them? Where is everything as it stands today?
Warrel: We're in the writing process. I can give you, maybe, a little bit of an exclusive thing right now. I think the record is going to be called, The Year the Sun Died. And there's a lot of stuff playing into that, and you can read whatever you want to for right now into it. God, that song is really good. We've been working really hard on that. It's not going to sound like the old ones... it's 2011. It's still gonna be that good I think, and there's gonna be high-pitched screaming. I'm making sure of that. With NEVERMORE high-pitched screaming was never really called for. You know, with SANCTUARY... of course it is.
Greg: So that touches upon something that always fascinates me; the dual expectation of fans. In one breath they
want you to remain true to your sound, and in the next they want you to evolve. So be it with SANCTUARY or NEVERMORE or your solo material, is that something you're aware of? Or do you just think, fuck it, I'm going to
write what makes me happy?
Warrel: Well, that's something that's always in the back of my mind. But yeah, at the end of the day, it has to
make me happy. And if it makes me happy, that motivates me further and makes me write better still. I know a lot of people are going to expect Refuge Denied, but it's just not going to happen. That was a time and a place that was special and can't be duplicated. And as much as I love it, and as much as we all have been sitting around... in a campfire situation, talking about the old days and how great they were... I'm like, "Oh my god. We're so fucking old now." But we're really not. By the way, Lenny lives up in the mountains... it's so beautiful up there. It's a great place to create and it's been really inspirational, as far as getting stuff together and writing.
Greg: It seems like nature is something you draw an extra layer of inspiration from. I recall reading that you were
very inspired by water when you were writing Dreaming Neon Black.
Warrel: Exactly... I was, because I lived on Lake Washington, in a condo, the end unit, that was right on the water.
And water was very close to me for that. And obviously that had a lot of influence on the songwriting. And eventually it was discovered, that she was probably drowned (referring to the inspiration behind Dreaming Neon Black).
Greg: And just for my own edification, the woman in the song "Dreaming Neon Black", she's a friend? A girlfriend?
Warrel: She was my girlfriend, yes.
Greg: OK... so sticking with the topic of songwriting, when you write, does the music come before the lyrics? Does
it change depending on who you're writing with? Is it always the same?
Warrel: It's never the same. I have a special place, near the water down here... I can walk down there from where I
live. It's about a twenty minute hike. There's this beautiful place that I've found, that nobody knows about, and I call it my "secret alcove"... because nobody knows about it. There's these big, burned out trees that have fallen over, and I'm not sure how that really all happened, but nobody really goes down there. And I just sit there sometimes and write lyrics. And it's really, really, really cool. I love living in the Pacific Northwest. I don't think there's a better place in the world actually. I'm going to go down there later today.
Greg: That's interesting. Clearly lyrics are very important to you. One of the things I've always found interesting as a fan of the Metal genre, is despite the fact that there's a ton of creativity and just some brilliant musicianship, yet lyrics often seem like an afterthought. So, assuming it seems that way to you as well, why do you think that's so?
Warrel: Well... I think that... with whatever project I'm involved with, music is always very important, but lyrics are what I do, so I'm going to put more focus on that. I really enjoy the fact that, people that want to get into lyrics, can really get into them... whatever I'm doing. And if you don't want to, you don't have to because the music is always good. There are some fans that really don't care about lyrics. But, if you do, they're there. And for me, that's my first love... well, obviously singing. But the lyrical aspect of it is really important to me. If you dig that kind of thing, you're going to find them. It's worked out so far.
Greg: So besides obviously Paul Simon, who are some of your favorite lyricists... either within or outside the Metal genre?
Warrel: Paul Simon of course. If you go back and listen to some of those old SIMON & GARFUNKEL songs, man... he
must have either been really stoned or really depressed or something. Those lyrics to me are so amazing. And it's all so depressing. And I think that's where I got my inspiration for the depressing side of stuff that I usually focus on. Who else is good? Hmmm... I really love ANATHEMA. I love the lyrics to Alternative 4, I love the lyrics to Judgement, I love the lyrics to A Fine Day to Exit... they're just amazing. I really, really, really like... CANNIBAL CORPSE. (mutual laughter) This is just going off the mark for a second... you have to take it tongue in cheek, but they're so absurdly awesome. Especially "Hammer Smashed Face" or "Entrails Ripped From a Virgin's Cunt". I listen to a wide variety of things. I'm not really taking inspiration from that... but I love Death Metal.
Greg: It's interesting what you said about how dark the Paul Simon's lyrics are. I don't think that ever truly concerned to me until I heard your re-imagining of "The Sound of Silence", given how bleak the music is, and just how at home those lyrics are against that musical backdrop.
Warrel: Right. You know what, spend an entire day with their musical catalog and a joint. You might never be the same.
Greg: Now that sounds like an interesting thought experiment. So, let's switch directions for a bit. SANCTUARY will be playing ProgPower XII in September... it's the reason we're speaking today. Do you have any expectations for the festival?
Warrel: I just know it's going to be really good. We're working on some things that are going to be pretty cool... and we're all really looking forward to it.
Greg: And SANCTUARY is going to begin touring shortly there after? Is that the plan?
Warrel: That's kind of the plan at this point. We'll see what works out.
Greg: So if I can assume Jeff (Loomis) is not going to be the second guitar player, do you know who is yet?
Warrel: Kind of... yeah... I don't want to...
Greg: Still under wraps... got it.
Warrel: It's really been kind of interesting to me, how many people, of very high caliber musicianship, are contacting me wanting Jeff's old job.
Greg: In NEVERMORE, SANCTUARY or both?
Warrel: Both.
Greg: So let's segue there. The obvious first question, is NEVERMORE done?
Warrel: No.
Greg: Definitely not? There will definitely be another NEVERMORE album?
Warrel: Oh yeah.
Greg: Perfect. And can you ever see yourself reconciling with Jeff and Van (Williams) or are those bridges burned?
Warrel: One bridge is burned, the other I'm still... It's like getting a very painful divorce. If you want to repair the situation you can, but there's one where I don't want to. I miss those guys. I think they made bad decisions. I'm going to Emo if I keep talking about it.
Greg: Understood. Let me ask you this. At one point, there were all these rumors about disharmony within the camp. And on the (NEVERMORE) forum you made the comment, "... after so many years together you become a family, of course we fucking fight, we make up..." Was that you trying to keep the peace and keeping the alarmist element from rearing its head?
Warrel: Kind of, yeah.
Greg: So, were you genuinely surprised when they quit or was that a long time coming?
Warrel: Yes... I was. I was extremely surprised and very, very upset and still am. As I... uh, yeah... I don't want to get messy.
Greg: OK... more of general question about NEVERMORE. As a fan of the band, it always seemed that NEVERMORE had just a bit of bad luck, or perhaps was the victim of poor timing. When you look back on it, from the inside looking out, does it seem the same to you?
Warrel: I think we had out fair share of bad timing and we had our fair share of disorganization within the camp. That's kind of what played into everything that happened. But I don't think I would really change anything, because everything happens for a reason. And the reason I'm here right now, and I'm talking to you is for a reason... and those guys decided that they didn't have as bad of an alcohol problem as I did... is for a reason. And, whatever...
Greg: So I had a chance to chat with Jim a few times during the last tour. Aside from all that he was dealing with, he told me that there was a bad cold ripping through the band. I think he called the tour bus "a rolling incubator".
Warrel: (laughter) Yeah... it's a rolling Petri dish.
Greg: (laughter) So... when you're a guitar player or drummer, you can fake 90 minutes of energy. However, as a singer, your body is your instrument. When you know youre taking the stage and you don't have your fastball, is that scary as hell?
Warrel: Yeah. The two most important things for a singer when youre on tour, sleep and as much water as you can
drink. Stay hydrated, and you got to sleep. Some times that's not always possible on a tour bus full of drunk people.
I didn't sleep a whole lot on the last NEVERMORE tour.
Greg: Is that because of all that was going on internally within the band, or because of where you were at mentally?
Warrel: I have my own problems, so I'm not going to point fingers at anybody, but it was hard to sleep. But yeah...
you learn how to use your instrument, you learn how to not damage it, and the most important thing for me is sleep.
Greg: So sticking with the baseball analogy... I've always drawn a parallel between pitchers and singers. You begin your career by overpowering people, but as you grow older, you learn the subtleties of your profession and do more with nuance than power. Do you see it in a similar vein?
Warrel: I think when you're young and you're starting out, you've got a point to prove. This is why I sang as high as
possible on the first SANCTUARY record, because I could. And still can, but maybe not in the same capacity. For me, it's now like just writing a good song... not having a point to prove, just proving that you can write a good song. I think that's where they have staying power, that's where they settle into, they settle into that place of just becoming great songwriters. That's always my goal, to be a great songwriter. I think I was really good songwriter, I think
I'm a much better songwriter now, and I think I can be a much better songwriter in the future too. So it's a learning
and growing experience for me. Your voice changes as you age, there's no way to escape that. And I'm just learning how to use it in the best possible way, within all the changes.
Greg: So let's talk a bit about your solo CD. First, how long had you had it in your head that you wanted to do a solo
CD, before it actually came to fruition and you began making plans?
Warrel: Well, I've always wanted to do one, somewhere in the middle of my career, just because I have such affection for Rock music. I always wanted to do something that was more Rock... Rock and Roll, and not something that you had to wrap your head around and show off your technical skills with. That's not a slam on anybody, by any means. It's just something I wanted to try, try writing Rock music. Even though it was still, obviously, a little bit Metal.
That's why I wanted to do it, and I still want to do it again. I'm working on another one already.
Greg: I definitely want to get to that. However, can you maybe first talk a little bit about the genesis of the
relationship with Peter?
Warrel: NEVERMORE toured with SOILWORK, in I think, 2000. We struck up a really good friendship. All the guys in both bands, we were all really friends. When I decided that I was actually going to make it happen and do a solo record, I focused on people that I admired as songwriters, and Peter was one of them. People can say whatever they want to say about being a sellout or whatever, but I don't view it as that. I just view it as having an opportunity to
write things that were unexplored for me at that point. And I'm so proud of that record, and there's going to be another one... definitely. I'm working on it right now actually. Oh god I have too many projects. I'm good at multitasking.
Greg: So that raises an interesting question. A few months ago, no one would have asked you what you consider your
primary project to be, it would have just been presumed to be NEVERMORE. If I ask you that question today, how do you respond?
Warrel: That would be SANCTUARY right now. I am working on solo stuff, but the music is so different that it's easy
for me to go into different modes. And actually, well, there is a couple of ideas being thrown around for the next
NEVERMORE too, which is going to be really good if the preliminary stuff is any indication... to tell you the truth, I'm not really happy with the last NEVERMORE record.
Greg: What specifically weren't you happy with? Can you put your finger on it or was it just an overall quality issue?
Warrel: No... I think the production was amazing. I really enjoyed a lot of the lyrics I wrote for it. (laughter) I just felt like it was more of the same and that's just not what we should have been doing at that point. But there were a lot of factors involved with why it turned out that way. I'm still proud of it... it's not my favorite.
Greg: So, with respect to the next solo disc, will it be you and Peter again? Will it be the same line up?
Warrel: Well, we talked about it a little bit. Right now I'm working with Matt Wicklund, whose currently playing in GOD FORBID, and he wrote a couple of the really great songs on Praises to the War Machine. We're working on stuff together, were working very aggressively right now. And he's writing some great, great stuff. And it is completely different from SANCTUARY, so it's easy to separate that. Stuff Lenny is writing is really, really good. It seems like he's been holding this stuff back for years and he's been let out of his cage and it's really inspiring. It's just a really good time for me. And I thought this would be a dark period, because of everything... It's turning out to be kind of a blessing in disguise to quote METAL CHURCH.
Greg: (laughter) Great reference. So, I have to ask you about the song "Brother". Between the lyrics and the vocal performance, it has to be one of the most intensely personal songs I've ever heard. Did you struggle at all with writing it, recording it or even deciding whether or not to include it on Praises to the War Machine?
Warrel: Yeah... it is the most personal thing I've ever done and it was really difficult to do that video. There's a
reason I look like fucking utter shit in that video, it's because I fucking went off the deep end... in disbelief, oh my god, I'm not actually going to make this into a video, I can't do this, I can't do this to my brother. But at the same time, he's kind of a.... well, yeah. And the day I did that, I was messed up. And I realized while I was doing it, that I needed to be messed up while I was doing it, and I needed to look like complete crap. And the message is, my brother was never close with me and I've always wanted a closer relationship with him, and I never got it and I guess a little bitter about it. But maybe as a family member, maybe I'm entitled to be bitter about not having that relationship. I just remember him standing with me in the hospital room when my Dad died. He just said, "You're just too young to go through this." OK... well, I am. I don't really have a choice here. And that's where the line comes in, "You said I was just too young." Something that kind of emotionally scarred me.
Greg: Wow... yeah, aside from the lyrics, there's just something about the vocal performance that just cuts to the bone. Clearly the performance sounds inspired.
Warrel: It was inspired by pain. I guess you get your inspiration where ever you can get it. That's probably one of my favorite performances I've ever done, besides the title track to Dreaming Neon Black.
Greg: That has to be one of my favorite songs of all time. In large part, because of that vocal performance. You know, I heard that you performed that song once with Christina Scabbia (LACUNA COIL) handling the female vocals.
Warrel: Yes! We did it Milan. She was amazing! Nobody has any video of it.
Greg: I was really hoping you guys would have gotten her to perform that with you for the Year of the Voyager DVD.
Warrel: That would have been great, and I would love to do a duet with Christina. I would love to, in the future, do something with her. I asked her once, if she would sing on one of the NEVERMORE records, and there was a
scheduling problem.
Greg: So getting back to the solo disc for a second, one of the things that stands out are the covers. They're not
so much covers, as they a re-imaginings. Have you ever considered doing an entire album like that?
Warrel: That's been suggested by some people. And I've always had that in the back of my mind. Johnny Cash pulled it off really well, but I'm not Johnny Cash. (mutual laughter) I do have a catalog of songs that I would love to do. But some of them are kind of sacred ground. Really, "Lucretia" (My Reflection) was sacred ground too. But after I heard the way Matt interpreted it, there was really no question as to whether it should be done or not. I might do that eventually, I don't know.
Greg: I wish I could find the exact quote. But I recall reading an interview you gave, where you spoke about the
downfall of Metal in the 90s. And in essence, you said its collapse was a good thing for it, because it forced a lot
of pissed off people to go back into their basements and create a lot of great music. To that end, do you think
financial success and Metal are almost antithetical?
Warrel: Huh. Yeah... at some point, yeah. Metal has always been driven underground and had always had some kind of resurgence due to the fact that the musicians were fucking pissed off. And that has always reinvigorated the genre, at various points in music history. I'm so really discouraged by the current state of Metal. If you live in Seattle and you listen to the radio, every god damn fucking band sounds exactly the same. We have Metal Shop still, and then still, every band sounds the same. Even commercial Rock radio, every band sounds fucking exactly the same. God, its weird. I don't know what the hell I'm listening to anymore when I get into my car. I'm just so sick of it, I just want to lock myself in the closet and write the best Metal record ever. Who knows if that will happen, but I'm going to try.
Greg: As a band at the tier that NEVERMORE is at, where you can do headline tours in the U.S. and Europe, and you're pushing to get to the next level, is it frustrating that the genre's stalwarts like IRON MAIDEN and JUDAS PRIEST,
continue to take around these crappy, FM-Metal bands, rather than pass the torch?
Warrel: That's annoying... yeah. It's not the bigger bands deciding stuff like this. It's just the booking agents, and whatever the flavor of the month is, they're going to want to throw that on a big band package.
Greg: You've been at this since 1987. You've sold a lot of records, toured the world. Do you still have any goals,
anything you'd like to accomplish, beyond growing as a songwriter and a performer?
Warrel: That's pretty much all I can hope for, is just evolving as a songwriter and getting better at that. Writing more
good songs... I know that's already happening. There's a lot of things I would like to do. I like to do more work doing voiceovers. I had such a great time when I did Dethclok. Do movies too... I don't know. Everybody's got goals... branch out into acting, because that's pretty much what I do on stage every night.
