ProgPower USA XII Roster Discussion

But no one came close to predicting the lineup and no one even imagined Sanctuary in a headliner slot. Do they even have enough material for 90 minutes? They'll have had three albums by September.

That has to do with a few factors:

1. Labyrinth and Mob Rules were both predicted by most people.
2. Glenn has stated many times how expensive it is to fly a band in from Australia. People are posting lineups in an attempt to win free VIP tickets. Therefore, they're not going to predict a band who the promoter of the fest has basically said will never play due to location. (Voyager).
3. See point number two in regards to Therion. Not due to location, but due to cost.
4. Glenn has said that he doesn't like Dream Evil. He's also said he only books bands that he likes. So, when trying to win free shit, people are going to take that into account.
5. Nobody is going to predict reunion shows for bands like Arcturus (well...except for some people :) :) :) )
6. Sanctuary might not have enough material for 90 minutes...but between their music and Warrel's solo stuff (gonna assume Nevermore tracks won't be played) there is plenty to go around.
 
However, you gotta remember that Sanctuary, Arcturus and While Heaven Wept will draw people outside of the ProgPower scene. You can expect tickets sold for those bands alone.

On one hand, Glenn knows a lot more about what will draw than I do. Maybe this lineup will mean a return to the quick sellout. However, on the other hand, I question the wisdom of drawing a new crowd when the old crowd fills the place nicely. And with Kamelot and Hammerfall, the fact that they tour the US means that you can advertise locally and get some Atlantans in the building. Will Glenn be able to take out local ads for these bands? None of them are US draws.

I disagree. I believe if he keeps on booking bands that tour the US all the time, or it's not a once in a lifetime thing you will eventually start going down the drain. You need to keep things fresh, you need to evolve. I think ProgPower gains more fans by branching out to these new directions than loses fans because of the same reason.

Like I said, I think that aspect of the fest is overrated, and based on a romantic view of the early years. And the empirical evidence indicates that the fest's sales suffer when Glenn starts thinking outside the box. There is a time when you have to change a product and evolve, and that's when it starts to get tired. As PPXI showed, it's not even close to getting tired. In a good economy, that lineup would have sold out in less than a month.

4. Glenn has said that he doesn't like Dream Evil. He's also said he only books bands that he likes. So, when trying to win free shit, people are going to take that into account.

That one did catch me off guard. But if there's one thing I've learned from Glenn, it's that if something has to happen, it will happen. And Dream Evil had to make it sooner or later.
 
However, you gotta remember that Sanctuary, Arcturus and While Heaven Wept will draw people outside of the ProgPower scene. You can expect tickets sold for those bands alone.

On one hand, Glenn knows a lot more about what will draw than I do. Maybe this lineup will mean a return to the quick sellout. However, on the other hand, I question the wisdom of drawing a new crowd when the old crowd fills the place nicely. And with Kamelot and Hammerfall, the fact that they tour the US means that you can advertise locally and get some Atlantans in the building. Will Glenn be able to take out local ads for these bands? None of them are US draws.

As someone who lives in Atlanta and is very active in the local metal scene, I can tell you right now that Arcturus and Therion will be big draws.

It's hard to judge Arcturus's US concert draw when this will be their first time ever playing this continent!
 
On one hand, Glenn knows a lot more about what will draw than I do. Maybe this lineup will mean a return to the quick sellout. However, on the other hand, I question the wisdom of drawing a new crowd when the old crowd fills the place nicely. And with Kamelot and Hammerfall, the fact that they tour the US means that you can advertise locally and get some Atlantans in the building. Will Glenn be able to take out local ads for these bands? None of them are US draws.

That's a good point. At the same time, do you think the number of Atlantans that would show up based on Kamelot alone would be higher than the number of fans who would travel to ProgPower based *mainly* on Kamelot, but also the other bands?

adaher said:
And the empirical evidence indicates that the fest's sales suffer when Glenn starts thinking outside the box.

Not sure I agree there. Look at the lineups for last year and PP VII. They don't seem to be going on a much different direction than before (look at last year, 5 favorite returns!!!) and the show didn't sell out.
 
How can Therion be a big draw when they weren't before? Arcturus isn't a headliner, I have no complaints about that. I'm always willing to be open minded about bands in lower slots. But for headliners, I've got to know them well and love them.
 
Not sure I agree there. Look at the lineups for last year and PP VII. They don't seem to be going on a much different direction than before (look at last year, 5 favorite returns!!!) and the show didn't sell out.

PPX got hammered by visa problems and the peak of the economic downturn. I was a definite go until Matos and Power Quest had visa problems, but in a good economy I still would have gone. But money being tight, I had to pass. This year, no way I was going to miss it. That's why I'm eating rice for dinner tonight.:)

PPVII and PPIX were also a bit of a departure for the fest. PPIX ended up doing fine, PPVII came close to selling out, which makes it a technical success, but in relative terms it was an abject failure given that PPVI and PPVIII were quick sellouts.

The formula works. I've got two words for Glenn: New Coke.
 
And the empirical evidence indicates that the fest's sales suffer when Glenn starts thinking outside the box.


So, evaluating based on Empiricism, you conclude that the Quintessence of the fest's success lies in Glenn staying on the Archaic Course already established by the fest blueprint. You believe the fest does better with lineups built from the Olden Domain of prog and power metal. By that I mean the type of bands who've been playing it since the Origin of the fest. Are you sure that's a Universal feeling among attendees?

:p
 
How can Therion be a big draw when they weren't before? Arcturus isn't a headliner, I have no complaints about that. I'm always willing to be open minded about bands in lower slots. But for headliners, I've got to know them well and love them.


I'd actually say that Arcturus is more of a headliner than Sanctuary, but that's irrelevant, I suppose.

I can't really tell you exactly how many people came out to see Therion last time they were here because they only Atlanta show they've ever played was at PPVI. However, based on conversation, number of shirts, number of requests I get on my show, etc, I can tell you that Therion is well liked around these parts.
 
I didn't meet a single person at the show this year that knew who they were. I talked to ALOT of people on saturday, 90% of them were discussing not coming next year do to only 1 or 2 bands coming that they want to see.
As I said before, I hope I'm wrong about it too. I do NOT want to see this festival come to an end due to lack of interest in 1 years line up.

A couple things wrong with what you said here. First, you're saying how no one at the fest knew who they were. More people know than what you may think. Also, the main draw they will get who will attend most likely will be people who weren't even there this year. One of the things Glenn is trying to do is get new fans in and this band totally does it.

Also, yeah maybe right now people only have a band or two they're interested in, but a lot of people will do some digging in the bands and will be turned onto more bands over time. Trust me.

Fixin' what ain't broken. It's been happening on and off since PPVII. It wasn't necessary then, it's not necessary now. The huge success of this last PP proves that. If you can sell out PP in a crappy economy using the same formula that's been used since PPIII, that means it STILL WORKS.

Guess what? It is broke. No offense to Glenn or anything. The main reason he picked this lineup doesn't have anything to do with what happened this year, it has to do with what happened at X. This lineup was in place much, much earlier. Glenn had no way to know it would sell out this year, plus let's be real here it barely sold out. I know that sounds silly but it wasn't until the week before it actually sold out, and to be honest I think one of the main reasons it did was due to Kamelot cancelling their major tour which is what made it an exclusive. I honestly don't know if Khan was with them and they were doing the tour as planned if it would've sold out to be perfectly honest.

And anyone who knows how these things have worked would know that the predictions tend to be what people want to see.

Some people, yes. Other people like me, no. Let's use James Labrie as an example here. I think way more people guessed Labrie as a headliner more due to his picture with Glenn than people who actually wanted him to headline.

I agree that it has become as much as a metal convention. People do come regardless of the lineup. However, you gotta remember that Sanctuary, Arcturus and While Heaven Wept will draw people outside of the ProgPower scene. You can expect tickets sold for those bands alone.



I disagree. I believe if he keeps on booking bands that tour the US all the time, or it's not a once in a lifetime thing you will eventually start going down the drain. You need to keep things fresh, you need to evolve. I think ProgPower gains more fans by branching out to these new directions than loses fans because of the same reason.

Plus comparing PP 3 with last year is just not right. The situation of the whole prog/power scene is completely different!

Word. I've always felt the exclusives are what sells this fest. Like I said up above, if Kamelot had gone with the tour, it may not have sold out. When it was made into an exclusive, it sold out. And technically speaking, Hammerfall was an exclusive too as they were not touring currently, though they did earlier in the year. Also when they did earlier in the year, they completely disregarded anything near Atlanta.

I'd actually say that Arcturus is more of a headliner than Sanctuary, but that's irrelevant, I suppose.

I can't really tell you exactly how many people came out to see Therion last time they were here because they only Atlanta show they've ever played was at PPVI. However, based on conversation, number of shirts, number of requests I get on my show, etc, I can tell you that Therion is well liked around these parts.

Also, if Atlanta is anything like the Chicago area or other parts of the country, Therion has a HUGE following amongst the Hispanic population. I noticed that at the Chicago show as it seemed a little bit half of the ethnicity of that show. I honestly don't know why this is the case, but it is something I've noticed and makes sense considering how well they do in Mexico City.
 
The people who keep on expecting the same Kamelot, Sonata, Nightwish, Evergrey and Epica every single year should really wake up and smell the coffee.

Fixin' what ain't broken. It's been happening on and off since PPVII. It wasn't necessary then, it's not necessary now. The huge success of this last PP proves that. If you can sell out PP in a crappy economy using the same formula that's been used since PPIII, that means it STILL WORKS.[/QUOTE]

Agreed.

It has been the people who WANT to see Kamelot, Evergrey, Nightwish etc. that has bought the tickets all these years. This IS the LOYAL ProgPower base. To say This is the people that needs to wake up and smell the coffee? I don't think I have ever disagreed with a comment on this forum anymore than this one. The sell-out this year proved what sells tickets for this festival.
I love coming home and looking up the new bands for next year that I havent heard of. Do most people take the time to do this? I don't know. But to say the progpower crowd is narrowminded is FAR from the truth. I know what I like and don't like, does that make me narrowminded? Maybe, but I wont be insulting others that dont like what I so. I know I do NOT like "death" vocals, so I rarely like bands that do them. Which is the case with most of my friends.
 
It has been the people who WANT to see Kamelot, Evergrey, Nightwish etc. that has bought the tickets all these years. This IS the LOYAL ProgPower base. To say This is the people that needs to wake up and smell the coffee? I don't think I have ever disagreed with a comment on this forum anymore than this one. The sell-out this year proved what sells tickets for this festival.

Uh, no. The loyal ProgPower fanbase will go to the festival REGARDLESS OF THE LINEUP. The loyal ProgPower fanbase will be there JUST TO SUPPORT THE FESTIVAL. The loyal ProgPower fanbase will bitch much less about the lineup. You know why? Because they know they're gonna have a HELL OF A TIME!!

I am not sure if you're aware, but it seems that Glenn did much more promotion and publicity for the fest this year than ever before. Facebook, Twitter, local ads, a street team... THAT my friend, is probably what really sold out the festival.

ixrayu said:
But to say the progpower crowd is narrowminded is FAR from the truth. I know what I like and don't like, does that make me narrowminded? Maybe, but I wont be insulting others that dont like what I so. I know I do NOT like "death" vocals, so I rarely like bands that do them. Which is the case with most of my friends.

I happen to believe that a lot of the folks can be narrowminded, yes. Folks who are afraid of venturing into a new direction with the fest, afraid that there will be new fans that like new music... Folks who believe the fest should only cater to the same prog and power metal bands as usual. Expanding the horizons is not a bad thing. It just takes an open mind to do that and I find that there's quite a few around here that won't bother.
 
Uh, no. The loyal ProgPower fanbase will go to the festival REGARDLESS OF THE LINEUP. The loyal ProgPower fanbase will be there JUST TO SUPPORT THE FESTIVAL. The loyal ProgPower fanbase will bitch much less about the lineup. You know why? Because they know they're gonna have a HELL OF A TIME!!

I am not sure if you're aware, but it seems that Glenn did much more promotion and publicity for the fest this year than ever before. Facebook, Twitter, local ads, a street team... THAT my friend, is probably what really sold out the festival]

[I happen to believe that a lot of the folks can be narrowminded, yes. Folks who are afraid of venturing into a new direction with the fest, afraid that there will be new fans that like new music... Folks who believe the fest should only cater to the same prog and power metal bands as usual. Expanding the horizons is not a bad thing. It just takes an open mind to do that and I find that there's quite a few around here that won't bother.

I am Aware. i have been attending since PPIV, and would attend regardless. Good point about FB, Twitter etc.
I just want to say I agree with this to some extent. For me, I think its more about the festivals longevity that comes into my mind when things change ALOT quickly. There tends to be backlash one way or another. I'm hoping, but doubtful, the show will do well next year.
 
I've said it before and I'll say it again

if you don't like Sanctuary, you need to GTFO of metal.

Pretty lame post AFAIC...I don't really like Sanctuary, only think their 2 discs are OK, never was the greatest Warrell Dane fan. And I won't GTFO metal for that...You like Sanctuary, good for you, I don't care for them, good for me, I'm not less "metal" than you for that...

To come back to the subject, I always wanted to attend PP, but never could so far. But I'm not sure I'll try hard to attend next year with the announced line-up. I only like Dream Evil,Red Circuit and Mob Rules. I'd be curious to see Eldritch too. As for the rest, I have no real interest. That's too bad. But, there will be things that will happen, a couple bands will surely bail out as usual for any reason, so maybe there will be more for my taste later...