quick defense of ST ANGER

[SnidelyW]

ive been meaning to say something for a long, LONG time - the following is a copy of the reply i posted in the soilwork forum regarding some metallibashing going on - the guys that frequent that forum are good guys for the most part, but i think maybe some of them have forgotten their roots -

anyone who is younger than 25 can pretty much disregard this, for the most part, your opinion doesnt count, your a hanger-on (for those who are pist already, i said "for the most part")

for those of you over 25 that remember how much of an impact "creaping death" had on you - "the four horsemen" the megadeth - metallica fued - "master of puppets" (the song you meatheads, there is a song called master of puppets) "disposable heroes" ""battery" fucking even "shortest straw" and "dyers eve"

well, below lies my comment (only slightly edited), let the chips fall where they may

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maybe im opening up a can of worms here, but i LIKE st anger -

to me, theres only one clunker on the whole cd (invisible kid) and the rest of the songs range from good to really good (nothing great mind you, but hey)

it really kind of bothers me when people rip on metallica, what did you expect, them to make master of puppets over and over and over again ?

by the time they had released the black album every nuance of music they had ever created had been done and redone five hundred million times over - what choice did they have?

really?

yes, reload wasnt their greatest, but then i dont consider steelbath suicide or even figure number five to be soilworks "greatest"

who the fuck are we, to dictate what our favorite bands do?

if you dont like it, lump it up with all the other music you dont like, and listen to music you do like -

to further my point, who in here ever bashes deicide - guess what, i HATE deicide! who in here ever bashes aerosmith? not familiar with aerosmith? i dont particularly think the music theyve churned out the last 5 years or so can be a pimple on the ass of toys in the attic, but theyve contributed a hell of a lot to rock, and even hard rock -

what about kiss? has kiss not contributed to metal on a major level? and yet, anything theyve released since love gun doesnt rank more than a 5 out of 10 imo - but because these bands are not held in the "high regard" metallica is, they get excused, and metallica get bashed -

yes, theyve contradicted themselves, yes theyve set themselves up for ridicule - do we have to be so simple minded as to take the easy bait?

why not find a more challenging topic?

bashing metallica is too easy, kind of like being a jerk is too easy - the real challenge is to be a decent person - find a bigger challenge than bashing metallica, they deserve some respect -

** and also, dont forget where you came from -

ps. the dvd is worth the cost of the disc alone -

 

[Tanith]

You've made an interesting point, but one fact remains unaddressed.

St. Anger is still a bad album.

I completely agree that we can't expect anything of early Metallica quality. Early Metallica is difficult to match, and even if they did move back to their early style, we'd just say they repeating themselves, and the album would still get bad rep.

One thing still stands though, St. Anger is a terrible album. This arguement discourages bashing Metallica, because its true, we can't expect as much from them as we could 10-15 years ago, but this isn't a reason to actually like St. Anger... because it still stands that St. Anger is shittier than anything else they've ever produced.

So, in conclusion, I wont bash Metallica, but I still don't have to like St Anger.

If this post doesn't make sense, its because I'm pretty stoned, and i'm not quite sure what i'm talking about.

 

[speed]

Shitty music is shitty music, no matter who writes or performs it, nor how influential this band or musician is. You know, there are plenty of symphonic pieces by major composers that never get performed, because they are just not that good. Furthermore, no one puts on Love's Labour Lost by Shakespeare because it is awful. Point being, even influential geniuses make mistakes.

 

[[0hr]Sunlapse]

i don't think St. Anger is flat out terrible, it has its moments.... although its still really fun to joke about

 

[andrew_plamondon]

to me, theres only one clunker on the whole cd (invisible kid) and the rest of the songs range from good to really good (nothing great mind you, but hey)

Well, I guess I could spend me time defending good albums but you see, I feel like it'smore important to find, appreciate and talk about great albums than about good albums.
You said it yourself, St.Anger ranges from good to really good ( in my opinion it's an ok album ), but why don't you take your time to discover and appreciate awesome music ?
I made the decision to get over it and to always try to find the best things, because I want the best and not only the "good enough for me to listen".

 

[Brujo]

You miss the whole boat with your argument. The reason why old (like me) metalheads despise shittallica is because of the way they abandonded the fans that made them who they are(were) and went from true great thrash metal to fagged up commercialized corporate profit motivated radio friendly pseudo metal pure shit. Everything they stood against at their beginning, they now are. Even if they did by some miracle put out a decent disc now, they could still go fuck themselves.

Got it?

 

[LuminousAether]

Aerosmith and Kiss are horrible bands. They don't get slagged for their later material because they always sucked.

 

[Spirit In Black]

Kiss does suck, why are they so popular?

 

[LuminousAether]

May as well ask why Limp Bizkit are so popular. People like shitty music, it's to be expected.

 

[Spirit In Black]

I see

 

[Tavaron]

You miss the whole boat with your argument. The reason why old (like me) metalheads despise shittallica is because of the way they abandonded the fans that made them who they are(were) and went from true great thrash metal to fagged up commercialized corporate profit motivated radio friendly pseudo metal pure shit. Everything they stood against at their beginning, they now are. Even if they did by some miracle put out a decent disc now, they could still go fuck themselves.

Got it?

Holy Christ this is stupid. Your mad because they didn't keep making the music you wanted? They changed (for the worse albeit) and you just can't accept it. Every band changes, and for one that has been around for as long as Metallica it is normal for then to change, a whole fucking lot. If you hate them now, then fucking get over it. They still made some of the best records ever. Anyways, St. Anger isn't half as bad as the assholes here make it out to be. Not good, but not bad,or horrible.

And Kiss has always sucked, but early Aerosmith was good.

 

[Ultimate_Symphony]

You miss the whole boat with your argument. The reason why old (like me) metalheads despise shittallica is because of the way they abandonded the fans that made them who they are(were) and went from true great thrash metal to fagged up commercialized corporate profit motivated radio friendly pseudo metal pure shit. Everything they stood against at their beginning, they now are. Even if they did by some miracle put out a decent disc now, they could still go fuck themselves.

Got it?

I'm not even going to defend Metallica because I honestly don't care for St. Anger, but this is just fuckin' idiotic. The fans made them? Metallica made themselves by playing the music they liked. If they didn't have the ability to play music they would be nowhere to be found. They are a band and they can play whatever the fuck they want; if that means that they have to leave some fans behind, then so be it.

 

[LuminousAether]

Metallica has always sucked. Their early albums were dull and had horrible vocals and drumming which ruined their otherwise fairly decent music. Metallica fans are idiots, plain and simple.

 

[SnidelyW]

Quote: Tanith

You've made an interesting point, but one fact remains unaddressed.

St. Anger is still a bad album

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youre right, i did not specifically address st anger, but more, the general metallibashing, which seemed to reach mammoth proportions immediately following the release of st anger -

st anger to me, is an album with a snare sound that is an aquired taste (MUCH like justice) but again, the audio on the dvd proves much more enjoyable, and thus accessible -

track by track:

frantic - can take it or leave it, doesnt suck, but not any of their best work - 6/10

st anger - same as above, as my wife said "im madly in anger with you"? (quizzacle look on her face) - 6/10

some kind of monster - come on now, this song just fucking rocks - you can get annoyed by the rattling of the cymbals in the beginning if you want, but this song is just heavy and punishing - 9/10

dirty window - better than the first two songs, not as good as #3 - love the line "my court is in session and now i slam my gavel down" - 7/10

invisible kid - could anything be worse than this? sorry, bashing - ok, im better now 2/10

my world - this song could have easily been on kill em all - im still amazed that bob rock could pull off this bass work - really, really good song - 9.5/10

shoot me again - go ahead metallibashers, shoot them again, they aint dead yet - 8/10

sweet amber - this song has the feeling of a melancholy twisted love thing, much like unforgiven too, which, IS a good song, even if it was stolen from kiss - 7/10

the unnamed feeling - not sure why they couldnt come up with a better title for this otherwise "really good song" - 7/10

purify - the backing vocals kill this for me, other than that, its a good song - 7/10

all within my hands - right up there with my world and some kind of monster - this is the closest jason newsted will ever get to an apology, and it such a rocking song - 8.5/10

all in all, i give it a 7 out of 10 - extra credit does indeed go to these guys for helping me get through my late teens, i havent forgotten -

as far as me saying that there are no "great" songs on the cd, i still believe that to be true - but how many cds do you buy where you just hate everything? i USED to buy alot like that - if you found one song on it you liked you were lucky -

theres never going to be another master of puppets, something that these guys release that just doesnt leave your cd player for 6 mon ths - something thats so great that you have to have 3 or 4 copies so you have one everywhere you need it -

who releases music like that these days?

(god please dont start listing your faves, it was rhetorical)

i feel no obligation to scour the earth searching for music that will cure my yearn for increasingly better music (did that make a bit of sense?) - furthermore, metallica is a household name in the metal community (both good and bad, that alone should merit them some respect) and believe it or not i have NOT lost any faith in their ability to put out above average cds -

give ya a great example - i got a song by children of bodom on a sampler cd, i LOVED it, thought it was great - bought the cd (hatecrew deathroll) and loved that, thought it was great - im thinking, cool, new band to add to my list of favorites - not so fast, the next cd i bought of theirs was follow the reaper - very keyboard heavy (if i want to listen to keyboards, ill play a video game) and not nearly as tenacious as deathcrew -

so, its all over the place, its not just metallica that are "inconsistent and disloyal" so get over it

i swear to fucking god if i hear "eeewww youre wearing a 'st. whanker' T-shirt" im gonna split somebodys skull open - j/k, sorry - im ok now

 

[skeptik]

Metallica has always sucked. Their early albums were dull and had horrible vocals and drumming which ruined their otherwise fairly decent music. Metallica fans are idiots, plain and simple.

Do you even know what the fuck you say when you talk? Why do you always have to go into threads about bands that you don't like just so you can say how much you don't like them instead of contributing anything? It's just as easy to say 'Metalcore fans are idiots, plain and simple' as it is to say 'Metallica fans are idiots, plain and simple.' Who's to say what music is better? You only know what you like more. That doesn't make any other type of music sub-par in any way. That just means you don't like it. And do you know what else? Nobody cares that you don't like Metallica, or have never liked Metallica. Why don't you go to a thread where you can contribute something meaningful instead?



Anyway, about this thread, this isn't really defending St. Anger is it? It's defending Metallica. However, there's no point in trying to defend them. People will have their opinions of their music, and that is all that can be done. It's nobody's place to forcefully guide someone's musical tastes, that for the individual to decide. Though I will agree that it's flat out ignorant and pathetic to completely wash your hands of a band that you used to like because they stopped making 'your' music, there's really no logic in that. You don't have to support their new music, but don't abandon their old music just because of what they are now.

 

[no country for old wainds]

You miss the whole boat with your argument.

Yes, the 'enjoying good music' boat.

 

[LuminousAether]

No, Lars Ulrich is undeniably one of the worst drummers of all time. There's no doubt about that. No contest. It's the plain truth, and it's very evident. Hetfield's pathetic vocals could be debated, but people who like his vocals tend to have very shitty taste.

Metallica have always been so hugely flawed that they are almost unlistenable to me, and to most metal fans that aren't sheep or aren't tainted by nostalgia. They sucked back then and they still suck now. Get over it, girly man.

 

[Demiurge]

I'm not a sentimental pansy and I'm generally a fan of of albums not bands. I judge albums on their individual merit and compare them to others to put them in congruous perspective. I don't give a flying shit what Metallica did in in 1984, past accomplishments by no means preclude St. Anger from sucking a fat one.

I dislike it when bands "progress" tautologically. I frequently bash bands like Deicide and Iron Maiden for being redundant. That said, stagnation is not the only potential evolutionary hitch, musical degeneration is another. In other words, doing something different is fine if it doesn't totally suck. Bands like Miasma and Demilich had the right idea, they made their artistic statement and stopped. Note to musicians: when you're out of good ideas, please simply desist!

SnidelyW never specifically discusses the constituents of St Anger, and with good reason. They do not shine a positive light on Mildtallica's latest. The riffs are simple, mallcorish, groove-laden horseshit. Guitar sound is paltry. The song structures are of the most basic, circular variety; they take a minute and half of material and repeat it 7 times . The vocals are angtsy, off-key moans. The drum sound sound resembles someone hitting a trashcan. The drumming itself is less varied than what can be provided by a drum machine. The drums are also featured much too prominently. The band uses microphone feedback as an element of the music. If you like that shit, you're a cunt. They use bass solos as filler. Enough already.

 

[Lord of Delusions]

Bands evolve just like people. Some for the better, some for the worse. VERY few bands can pull off not changing, and if they do, their fanbase probably gets less and less each passing year. I can only name two that have been around for quite a while. As far as Metallica fans being idiots, I think that is a very idiotic statement in itself. I don't know about you, but I enjoy all kinds of music. I am not so shallow minded to hole myself up in one genre of music. Half of the bands out there have probably at one time or another been influenced by Metallica. I agree the St. Anger sounds like shit. I beleive they achieved what they set out to do, be it good or bad. Hasn't anyone here ever fucked up and said, "Whoa, I won't do that again." Maybe their next album will be different, more hardcore like their old stuff. What then? Will they have sold out again to the popular vote? I believe those who don't like them now never will, and there is nothign that will change that. Even if they wore face paint and ran around in all black cloths singing medleys about Norse Gods and waving swords and having 20 solo's in each song, never repeating a chord throughout the whole song, it wouldn't change your opinion. Who cares if they cut thier hair and chilled out a little. If someone else made these albums, I sstill would have bought them. I like the music. And ultimatly that is what it should be about, the music. If you don't like it, don't listen to it and shut the fuck up. Everyone has their opinions and that is fine, but to those of you that are all ass-hurt about them changing, get off the damn soap box and get on with your life.

 

[Demiurge]

First you say St. Anger is shit then then you contradict yourself by saying "I like the music". We're talking about St. Anger, why are you discussing Metallica's influence? I figure that when a band hasn't released a decent album in almost 20 years, and the band has been active over that span, the band is not likely to record and release good material. First you tell us that St. Anger accomplished its goal(s) then you suggest that they made a mistake and will redeem themselves with their next album. I dunno, who cares if they cut their hair and chilled out a bit? Who said anything about that? Certain genres are inherently shitty, like mallcore.