Race War

[Onder]

@Onder: You get free shit from other people at gun point, through a proxy. No different than the gypsies.

What do you mean and what do you know? You know shit, you always just try to be clever.

 

[SentinelSlain]

A thief that didn't claim any form of benefits would probably be a superior person to someone who is a doctor for a state health care organisation according to dakryn.

 

[Dak]

What do you mean and what do you know? You know shit, you always just try to be clever.

They're currently making a new law saying that students will pay for unis, so I have to study bullshit now while I still can.

I haven't been able to find the other quote I was looking for yet. One about getting a check in the mail.

 

[Einherjar86]

You just sort of contradicted your original assertion. If poking fun alters nothing, then how is it keeping racism going?

I don't think so.

I claimed that poking fun doesn't change the status quo, yes; but people were racist to begin with. Poking fun does nothing to alter this fact, it only perpetuates the stereotypes it manipulates. I don't see what's confusing.

 

[Dak]

I don't think so.

I claimed that poking fun doesn't change the status quo, yes; but people were racist to begin with. Poking fun does nothing to alter this fact, it only perpetuates the stereotypes it manipulates. I don't see what's confusing.

I don't see how your statement about political comedy made this point at all then.

I don't think it perpetuates the stereotype. If the stereotypes were inaccurate, they wouldn't be funny. They would be stupid and stop being told as people sought to avoid ridicule for telling dumb jokes.

 

[Onder]

I haven't been able to find the other quote I was looking for yet. One about getting a check in the mail.

I can study uni "for free" because I’ve proven that I’m capable of it and I wouldn’t have it paid if I did a shitty job studying it. I said bullshit but I obviously wouldn’t study it if I didn’t respect it.

What check in the mail? I don’t get money from the state fyi.

 

[Dak]

Yeah I can't find the post so..... apologies on that one. However, state grants are no exception.

 

[Onder]

Yeah I can't find the post so..... apologies on that one. However, state grants are no exception.

How can you say that I’m no different to gypsies then? I work to get the money and I work on being an educated citizen. I’m not offended by what you said as I take it as another blatant try to be a smartass, but I don’t see a point/reason why you did it. What do you suggest then? What would you do different?

Or in other words, what the fuck is yo deal, biatch.

 

[Dak]

The gypsies are working to get money from the state as well. They are just taking a different path.

Work a job/start your own business, and pay out of your own pocket. The downside to it is, you will start getting mad at all the people mooching off the money you are earning.

 

[Einherjar86]

I don't see how your statement about political comedy made this point at all then.

Political comedy does nothing to alter the status quo either. Does Jon Stewart's routine about the propaganda and fanaticism of Fox News do anything to diminish its viewership?

I don't think it perpetuates the stereotype. If the stereotypes were inaccurate, they wouldn't be funny. They would be stupid and stop being told as people sought to avoid ridicule for telling dumb jokes.

You contradicted your previous statement. Obviously jokes do perpetuate stereotypes; they have to in order to function as jokes, which is something I specified earlier. Take your example:

Q. "Why can blacks run faster than whites?"

A. "Because they get so much practice running from the cops."

I'm actually going to approach this from the "reverse-racism" perspective. This joke seems less harmful because it doesn't point to negative qualities of blacks themselves, but to their marginalization by coercive institutions. However, its success rests on a dangerous logic: that all cops are racists and single out black people (still perpetuating a stereotype of racism).

The person telling the joke might claim that they know, obviously, that not all cops are racists; but jokes such as this function logically as constructions of our understanding of the world, leading to a "I know it isn't true, but..." kind of situation.

"I know not all cops are racists, and yet I think they do single out black people."

"I know not all blacks are criminals, and yet I lock my car door when one walks by."

"I know not all Muslims are terrorists, and yet I get nervous when one sits next to me on a plane."

Racist jokes reinforce the logic on the side of action.

 

[Onder]

The gypsies are working to get money from the state as well. They are just taking a different path.

But I’m not doing it for money, I’m doing it for the education.

EDIT: Let me rephrase this: I’m not studying because it’s "free"...

Work a job/start your own business, and pay out of your own pocket. The downside to it is, you will start getting mad at all the people mooching off the money you are earning.

You are mad because you pay taxes? Everybody pays taxes and not always they are put to the use that you approve of. Deal with it.

 

[Vimana]

Political comedy does nothing to alter the status quo either. Does Jon Stewart's routine about the propaganda and fanaticism of Fox News do anything to diminish its viewership?



You contradicted your previous statement. Obviously jokes do perpetuate stereotypes; they have to in order to function as jokes, which is something I specified earlier. Take your example:

Q. "Why can blacks run faster than whites?"

A. "Because they get so much practice running from the cops."

I'm actually going to approach this from the "reverse-racism" perspective. This joke seems less harmful because it doesn't point to negative qualities of blacks themselves, but to their marginalization by coercive institutions. However, its success rests on a dangerous logic: that all cops are racists and single out black people (still perpetuating a stereotype of racism).

The person telling the joke might claim that they know, obviously, that not all cops are racists; but jokes such as this function logically as constructions of our understanding of the world, leading to a "I know it isn't true, but..." kind of situation.

"I know not all cops are racists, and yet I think they do single out black people."

"I know not all blacks are criminals, and yet I lock my car door when one walks by."

"I know not all Muslims are terrorists, and yet I get nervous when one sits next to me on a plane."

Racist jokes reinforce the logic on the side of action.

There's a difference between referencing a stereotype for ironic purposes and reinforcing it. In fact, I think telling racist jokes can do the opposite, in a sense, because in a sense it's making fun of the people who think that way. Like saying "haha, it's funny how people think that blacks are so fast because they get practice running from the cops." It's ironic because someone is telling the joke and not really believing it.

It goes along with what I mentioned before. Most racists I knew didn't find black jokes funny because they didn't see any of the irony in telling them. If they (racist jokes) reinforced the stereotype, then the audience would mainly be racist people, and not people telling the jokes ironically.

But I do agree that political comedy doesn't do much to alter people's views of politics. At least not the Daily Show and the Colbert Report. Political cartoons I think can definitely have an impact, though.

 

[Dak]

@Einherjer:

There's a difference between referencing a stereotype for ironic purposes and reinforcing it. In fact, I think telling racist jokes can do the opposite, in a sense, because in a sense it's making fun of the people who think that way. Like saying "haha, it's funny how people think that blacks are so fast because they get practice running from the cops." It's ironic because someone is telling the joke and not really believing it.

It goes along with what I mentioned before. Most racists I knew didn't find black jokes funny because they didn't see any of the irony in telling them. If they (racist jokes) reinforced the stereotype, then the audience would mainly be racist people, and not people telling the jokes ironically.

.

But I’m not doing it for money, I’m doing it for the education.

EDIT: Let me rephrase this: I’m not studying because it’s "free"...

But would you be in school if it wasn't paid for by someone else?

You are mad because you pay taxes? Everybody pays taxes and not always they are put to the use that you approve of. Deal with it.

Just because some people pay taxes doesn't mean everyone should just "deal with it".

 

[Onder]

But would you be in school if it wasn't paid for by someone else?

Yes. Maybe I would get in a debt and pay it off later (this is how they do it in US, right?). This way I get in an imaginary debt with the state and pay it off later on taxes as a -possibly- economically stronger citizen. (I supposedly study to get more money later).

Just because some people pay taxes doesn't mean everyone should just "deal with it".

You can try to change things yeah. But not by pointing at students and calling them gypsies. Vote for your favorite party or something and stop whining.

 

[Einherjar86]

There's a difference between referencing a stereotype for ironic purposes and reinforcing it. In fact, I think telling racist jokes can do the opposite, in a sense, because in a sense it's making fun of the people who think that way. Like saying "haha, it's funny how people think that blacks are so fast because they get practice running from the cops." It's ironic because someone is telling the joke and not really believing it.

But that's not the logic of the joke; the logic of the joke can rest only in its material composition, or the words being used and the history associated with them. If a joke is perceived ironically, the only explanation is that the person perceiving it that way was not racist to begin with. A racist might find it humorous, or might find it not funny at all; but neither outcome can positively affect a racist's misconceptions.

It goes along with what I mentioned before. Most racists I knew didn't find black jokes funny because they didn't see any of the irony in telling them. If they (racist jokes) reinforced the stereotype, then the audience would mainly be racist people, and not people telling the jokes ironically.

Irony and/or sarcasm is not a structural component of language; it's an effect created by the joker, or perceived by the audience. I don't find your statement about racists not finding racist jokes funny convincing, because racists that I have come in contact with usually laugh at them (myself included). The logic doesn't follow; racists find racist jokes funny because they agree with the logic of their construction. That's how jokes are funny. Someone who laughed at a racist joke because they found it ironic could only have been consciously "beyond" racism in the first place; but, importantly, they still must be aware of it.

 

[Dak]

Yes. Maybe I would get in a debt and pay it off later (this is how they do it in US, right?). This way I get in an imaginary debt with the state and pay it off later on taxes as a -possibly- economically stronger citizen. (I supposedly study to get more money later).

Going into debt is inadvisable as well.

You can try to change things yeah. But not by pointing at gypsies and calling them names. Vote for your favorite party or something and stop whining.

FYP

 

[Dak]

But that's not the logic of the joke; the logic of the joke can rest only in its material composition, or the words being used and the history associated with them. If a joke is perceived ironically, the only explanation is that the person perceiving it that way was not racist to begin with. A racist might find it humorous, or might find it not funny at all; but neither outcome can positively affect a racist's misconceptions.



Irony and/or sarcasm is not a structural component of language; it's an effect created by the joker, or perceived by the audience. I don't find your statement about racists not finding racist jokes funny convincing, because racists that I have come in contact with usually laugh at them (myself included). The logic doesn't follow; racists find racist jokes funny because they agree with the logic of their construction. That's how jokes are funny. Someone who laughed at a racist joke because they found it ironic could only have been consciously "beyond" racism in the first place; but, importantly, they still must be aware of it.

I don't see how jokes about "grape drank" and other such things are perpetuating racism. Stereotyping is not inherently racist in itself, which seems to be your opinion.

 

[Einherjar86]

Stereotyping is inherently racist, and I don't see how you think it isn't.

 

[Onder]

Going into debt is inadvisable as well.

FYP

So you said nothing in this whole argument except calling me a gypsy. Next time please pack it into one post (preferably one sentence) and don’t bother me for no reason faggot. I tried to get the point out of what you’re saying, but I got nothing, so fuck you.

 

[Dak]

What is bigoted about pointing out legitimate common traits inherent to any particular particular subset of humans, racially sgrouped or otherwise?

So you said nothing in this whole argument except calling me a gypsy. Next time please pack it into one post (preferably one sentence) and don’t bother me for no reason faggot. I tried to get the point out of what you’re saying, but I got nothing, so fuck you.

I was pointing out your anger at gypsies is hypocritical.