randy staub

[PhilR]

From what I heard through the grape vine, that's how Mutt did the new nickelback. Everything was automated to a insane degree, and the dynamics were "re added" by global automation on the console (or by icon in shippley's case).

A technique favoured by Chris Lord-Alge as well.

I wonder if the "psuedo-dynamics" thing developed specifically for rock music destined for heavy radio airplay. The levels of compression used by radio broadcasters tends to kill dynamics pretty well so perhaps if they put them in artificially it translates better or soemthing....

As for Randy Staub, I ripped some tracks from "Metallica" to use as mix reference material. Mistake! There is SO much high end on those mixes and for the life of me I don't know how the hell it was achieved. As Ulrich himself said, brilliant engineer.

 

[C_F_H_13]

A lot of great guys use extreme SSL bus compression. Andy Wallace is another. It's just a testament to how great they are that they can make great mixes that breath even with such massive gain reduction. A lot of guys I know who do that use it as a crutch, Randy Staub and Andy Wallace are doing it totally intentionally and are totally in control. Very impressive!

Yeah, I heard that when he does a vox up or down mix, he actually has to move the fader like 5-6 db to actually achieve a change of 1db in perceived volume hahaha.

 

[aramism]

i just feel everything is getting comped individually sounds like big blocks coming at you as opposed to a giant ball.


thats how i visually see andy wallace mixes - a giant ball. RS is like tree stumps raining down on you. there is more separation in dynamics whereas AW is more like meshed together. i dunno, maybe i'm crazy.

 

[pifos_2]

Wow i can't believe what I'm reading. That's gold.

 

[Ermz]

A technique favoured by Chris Lord-Alge as well.

As far as CLA goes, I read an interview where he said he favors automation because he doesn't like to overly compress the source. Automation lets him ride and even out the levels without 'killing the life'.

This may be at odds with Randy, where everything is brick-solid, and then automated not to constrain the level dynamically, but rather to put the movement back in.

The impression I'm getting is that they're using automation for 2 slightly differing reasons.

 

[LSD-Studio]

I'll assume you mean 2:1 cause SSL 4000s only have 2,4,10 :1 ratios. And that's a good point, something I might have to look into.

fuck, yes, of course! typo (no lights on the keyboard and typing in the dark ).

I've never really tried compressing that much though, always sounded shite...was better/more even with shorter attak (around 1/3ms), but that kills the transients obviously and listening to black album for example makes me doubt that he's got the attack that fast.

 

[Ermz]

With the attack any lower than 10ms, you essentially use the bus comp as more of a limiter. The only way I've been able to beneficially use the bus comp is with 10 or 30ms attack, 100ms or autorelease, taking off a MAX of 4 dB (usually half that) and then hitting the back end with a limiter to tame all the crazy transients that lets through. The bus comp can really add punch and glue, but it can leave the transients going out of whack as well.

 

[LSD-Studio]

With the attack any lower than 10ms, you essentially use the bus comp as more of a limiter. The only way I've been able to beneficially use the bus comp is with 10 or 30ms attack, 100ms or autorelease, taking off a MAX of 4 dB (usually half that) and then hitting the back end with a limiter to tame all the crazy transients that lets through. The bus comp can really add punch and glue, but it can leave the transients going out of whack as well.

yeah, that's how I'm using it, either like 2:1 and 4db at the very max or 10:1 and .5 dB max redcuction pretty much always 30ms attack (in metal at least, for alt rock etc I'm often using a shorter attack)

 

[beyond dead]

I was listening to sybreed antares in my van after reading this thread, and it appears that they use the "align bass notes to bass drums" trick maybe even on the guitars aswell It would be much easier to edit this way with music like crossfade and nickelback than tightening up bass and guitars to the double kicks of sybreed! awesome thread! hitting the master bus comp with 15 dbs of reduction! shit son. i`m way off! have to say that crossfade is one of the best produced rock bands!!!

 

[Matt Smith]

Randy uses a lot of compression on a lot of different busses and subgroups...I've never heard about him thrashing the mix buss like that, but anything's possible!

 

[Genius Gone Insane]

Temporary derail: Hey Matt, what's up with your Georgia Bulldogs always too scared to come out to the west coast and play some real football?

 

[aramism]

Randy uses a lot of compression on a lot of different busses and subgroups...I've never heard about him thrashing the mix buss like that, but anything's possible!

yes there we go.

 

[C_F_H_13]

Randy uses a lot of compression on a lot of different busses and subgroups...I've never heard about him thrashing the mix buss like that, but anything's possible!

Absolutely. I'm pretty sure he does something similar to what michael bauer does, where he has 4-6 different "compression groups" where he sends various instruments to.

 

[aramism]

brauerize!

 

[kaomao]

Great guy really, the black album was always a big influence on me!
But those guitars on "Come What (Ever) May" sounds a lot phasey, I really don't like them

 

[Phase]

Its really not about the bus compression. Everyone uses bus compression. Wallace takes off about 4-6db. If you think about it thats not a secret to anything

What are tracks doing before they hit the bus? Thats the question. If Randys snare is square then its hit with a clipper before it hits the bus. You dont make squares with bus compression.

There is no one thing he does. His talent is making each and every track super HiFi. They have maximum spectral information so they are as present and as deep as the song will allow. Im not talking about the black album--he mixes different now.

He just hears better than everyone else. Its not technique. Most of us can mold a single track into its sublime full spectrum glory but he knows exactly what voicing each track has to have in order to be combined into one gigantic sublime mix

One thing him and wallace absolutely do that Is a technique-- is they use some form of Mid/side processing on the guitars. I dont know what their formula is but you can hear it Linkin Park, Thrice, Nickleback and others. It some kind of pseudo guitar blend that widens(but does not collapse in mono) as well as enhances the guitar voicing. Its not the standard phasing tricks or the standard M/S process

But its a total package where every track is so well thought out in regards to its sonics that it sounds like every single frequency in the spectrum is being represented to its fullest. Just as Einstein had this extra virtual blackboard in his mind to do equations, those 2 have the ability to blend tones in their minds. If they didnt it would take 10 years to mix a nickleback record using trial and error in order to achieve such a robust mix.

But fret not. Some of the greatest mixes in history are just simple stuff. A lot of wallace stuff is only good because of the mix. If the songs were good they wouldnt even need to be mixed so awesome. Led Zep anyone?

 

[Ermz]

I don't know if this is any relevance, but at the start of Nickelback's 'Throw Yourself Away' when the solo rhythm guitar is going, you can hear a subtle slapback delay on it. Perhaps this is another one of the techniques he employs on guitars, or perhaps he just automated it for that part. It does give the guitars a sense of space and depth though, almost as if it's a predelay coming from the room and hence creating the illusion of a cab.

 

[Fragle]

this is an absolutely great thread that shouldn't be allowed to die imho.

so, anyone got anything else to contribute??

i was just listening to nickelback's silver side up the other day, and boy does it sound massive. i actually compared it to linkin park's hybrid theory (andy wallace) and while both are great in their own sense, i thought that the randy staub mix was way more intense, like a slap in the face.
linkin park on the other hand has more subtle ambience plays and more overall depth it seems.

 

[MetalJonesy]

I don't know if this is any relevance, but at the start of Nickelback's 'Throw Yourself Away' when the solo rhythm guitar is going, you can hear a subtle slapback delay on it. Perhaps this is another one of the techniques he employs on guitars, or perhaps he just automated it for that part. It does give the guitars a sense of space and depth though, almost as if it's a predelay coming from the room and hence creating the illusion of a cab.

if you listen carefully on cans you can hear pretty much most of the tunes on the long road and all the right reasons have a bit of this effect going on, its really quiet, but yer, maybe this is one of his tricks!

 

[Ermz]

It's been too long since my last post here. Randy is the freakin' man. This has not changed.

@MetalJonesy: That's really interesting, thanks for sharing. I'll definitely employ that on the next rock act I work with. Never considered it in the past! Chances are it'll just mess the mix up since I don't have a fraction of the know-how, hah.