Reality, free will, soul, divine punishment, and other things

[PlatypusJesus]

I haven't started a thread in a while, so I thought that I would write one about what I have been thinking about lately and that is all of the things in the subject title and more. So, I'll start it off with a question. What or should I say who do you think the real you is? Is it the way you look, the way you talk. Well, I believe that the real you is your mind, your brain. That a human is not the body, but the mind. The body, your senses, they are just tools to assist you and other humans and organisms. For example, sight is there to help you identify other animals and to enhance the experience on earth. Your voice is to help you communicate with other humans and creatures. The sense of feeling, touch, it is there to help you interact with other creatures, other humans. The way you look is there to help other creatures and other humans identify you. But none of it is the real you. The real you, at least in this life is your mind. That is the only thing that makes you you. So then, you ask "What is reality?" Well, I believe that reality is what ever a person perceives it to be. Reality is whatever you imagine, what ever you dream, whatever you think, what ever you see, what ever you feel, what ever you tell yourself is real. Because when you touch something, your brain tells you that you feel it. And if you take what I said earlier and apply it to what I just said then that would mean that what you feel is real because you tell yourself it is. Also, what ever someone believes in is real. And all of this is real because anything and everything is possible. And there is only one reality and that is your reality. Now you question if we have free will. Well, yes, because you tell yourself to lift your arm, you send messages to that arm to lift up. You tell yourself to do something, to go a certain way. It doesn't matter if you are following a trend, because you make the decision to follow a trend. Now the next thing I think about is the Divine Plan, and I automatically rule it out because of what I just said. If we have free will, then it can not exist, because if it did exist we would be slaves and wouldn't have a choice in life because all of our choices have already been made. Now I would like to rule out hell. First, to rule out hell you have to discuss the soul. Do I believe in a soul? Why yes I do. I believe we all have a soul and that that soul is a part of us, but it is a part of us that we shall never experience in this life. It is just here now to give us life and nothing more. Your soul is nothing like what you are now. It is totally and completely different, yet it is still a part of you. And it makes no choices and no decisions in this life, your mind does that. And when you die in this world, it is your mind and body that die, not your soul. And since your soul makes no decisions in this life it can not be punished. So that rules out hell. Now what about god. Well, I don't know. I have no clue if there is one, many, or none. Really, I could care less because I just don't see why it is important. I really don't have anything else to say about a god or gods because I think I've already discussed that on this board. And I hate it when people say "Tomorrow has come" or "The future is now" because tomorrow and the future never come. For example, tomorrow is Wednesday (at least for me it is) well, the second Wednesday gets here it becomes today and Thursday then becomes tomorrow. And even if you got a time machine and went into the future you still couldn't say "The future is now" because once you got to the future it would become the present. That's enough ranting for now, my fingers are becoming numb.

 

[PlatypusJesus]

Well, now I do have something to say about a god or gods. And that is that if it or they do exist and it or they did create this world then I believe that it or they can not know all and see all. And how do I come to this reasoning you ask. Well, if it or they could see all and know all why would it or they even bother with creating this world. No, if it or they do exist and it or they did create this universe and world and us then it or they did it for entertainment. Because humans are destructive and unpredictable and the earth is unpredictable and everything else is and that's why it or they created all of this, if they did. Because unpredictable equals entertainment.

 

[PlatypusJesus]

Wow, ten views and no one has responded yet. I would think that someone would either say "That was the dumbest thing I have ever heard lord" or "That was very observational lord" or "I didn't even bother to read what you wrote"

 

[Soul of Ice]

I read what you wrote...all of it...I do not agree with some of the things you mention, for example the divine plan, heaven, hell, God, and your idea of the soul. But I do agree with the idea of the brain is who you are. That goes without saying.

 

[PlatypusJesus]

Finally, someone responds, it's about time. Well, about the divine plan, think about this. If it god is real, and god really made the divine plan then that means that he has already set in stone our fate. He has already decided what we are going to do in life, and we have no choice in what we do because it has already been decided for us and is set in stone, so we can not go against it. That would make us slaves to god. And if god is good, then he wouldn't make his creation slaves. And plus, think about how unpredictable we are, you never know what someone is going to do. I don't believe I mentioned heaven, but I will now. I don't believe in it because I don't believe in hell. I think both of those were put into the bible to attract people to that religion. You tell them that if they don't believe then they shall be punished and if they do believe then they shall be rewarded. No, I believe that in the life after this one, we shall have to decide our way and guide ourselves through it just like in this one, but we shall have different senses and a different environment. You see, I believe there are things far beyond space. I don't think space does go on forever, no, it stops and then there are things far beyond it. I would like to hear your opinions on heaven, hell, god or gods or whatever, and your idea of the soul. I love to hear others beliefs because it helps me to advance my own.

 

[Lies and Perfidy]

Having read your mini-essay, I feel like I should say something here; however, I'm drugged up with cold medicine, so it won't make much sense. But then, what else is new?

I pretty much agree with what you said, but the concept of an afterlife seems like bullshit to me. Fun bullshit, but bullshit nevertheless. And your free will points are cool, but it raises an interesting question about the definition of free will. If someone has a gun to your head and tells you to do something, do you commit the action by free will? Sure, you're sending the message to various parts of your body, and you could very easily refuse and die. There's a lot of ramifications to that question, but I don't wanna go into them now. Mebbe later. Think about it...nice post, btw.

 

[Black Winter Day]

well, like the saying goes. . . "i think therefore i am". . . couldn't be more true

and i also believe that peopl have an essence/soul that transcends. i also believe that life was meant to be confusing and unpredictable. else, what would be the point of living at all?

 

[IOfTheStorm]

what is the purpose of "life philosophy" in a music forum like this...
things like the thread topic are to be discussed in real life not in a forum ....

 

[Black Winter Day]

and talking on the internet is less "real-life" than talking with someone in person. . . i'm sure lom has plenty of people around in a big meeting room discussing topics such as this in his "real life".

away with thee!

 

[PlatypusJesus]

I just like to hear people's beliefs and opinions. That's all. If you don't like it then just ignore this thread, it's not that hard. And Pyrus, really it's not an after life, because only part of you dies and the other part (soul) continues on. So it's not really after life, but just a continuation of life, different, but continuation none the less. Oh, and it's late at night and I am sleepy so that's the best comment I can come up with right now. And yeah, I guess it will still be your free will even if someone has a gun to your head, because you make the decision to either go against them and be killed or do what they say, although you are heavily influenced, you still can choose different paths. It's when you have no choice at all that your free will is taken away.

 

[Iris]

Do you believe in telepathy, LOM?
I don't think it's as easy as we like it to be, but i do believe there's a way to reach people. But, still...it's something i believe in, whether it are my dreams or sensing things, they are there. There are few people which i connect with, like this. My mom has it too. We dream about eachother and we can connect by thinking about eachother. Sometimes we even have the same dreams, same symbols only in the opposite direction. What is mine in my dream, is hers in her dream. Ok, call it spooky, i love it when that happens, it enriches me.
I do agree with you on this one, that you are you because what's in the mind and that your body are just tools. But why is it, that we don't feel satisfied with our tools? I really believe we have to connect with our body, it makes us whole.
(heh, reminds me of my psychology-teacher he once asked me" Iris, how is your releation with your body, how do you connect?" That question was hard for me back then so i shove it off with" Oh splendid! We call eachother every week"! Now i know what he meant.
Only the mind, man..i wish that could be. That would mean people would connect by the mind and our thoughts, instead of by sex-appeal and body-language. That's why i believe you have to connect with your tools Become one. And for me it's finally starting to work. I started to take care of it and i'm getting in balance. It's not easy because my mind works harder then my body.
But i also believe we can do more then just "think".
All that space in our brains and we only use a little of it, why? Ok, to use it, to learn and memorise it? a lot of people don't have to think anymore, it's been told to act that way and they do so...because it is supposed to be like that. Spiritual, i think a person is capable to achieve a lot. But that's just the believe in things. Believing, gives you hope. Whether it's a god, or a woman in afrika, putting banana's underneath a tree, to please her gods and pray for the things she needs to feel happy. That symbolisme, is god to me. God is just a word, not a person or that christian-dude who is supposted to take care of the world.
It's the power you feel, when you believe in things. Ok, christians called it god, for me it's spirituality that does the trick. I won't go in details, i don't want to. I want to keep it for myself, it's what i believe in and i don't want to convince people with my mind, my feelings, my believings. They are mine and it works fine for me.
I think hope, is the key..there is a lot power and strength in that emotion, not the thing you believe in. The thing you believe in, gives you hope...and hope is what i need to keep believing in it. Hope is like a kinda drug...when it works, you can feel really great. When it's gone, you feel empty and hollow, looking for a new shot. It keeps me alive i guess..
Ok, call me weird, i don't fucking care. It's just me, i just don't seem to create hope like most people, so what?
Usually, i never open up about my own believings because i hate to hear" that you believe in such crap, i can't believe it". For me, it means that person doesn't takes me serious, because i get the feeling he doesn't respect my dignity..and that hurts.
Indeed, keep thy religion to thy selves...and create your own one!
That works for me, i don't get hurt and it keeps my soul and consciousness clear, because i still keep on going believing in the things, that gives me....hope

xxx Iris xxx

 

[Chuut-Riit]

I could give a good statement, if this thread was in german, but my spoken/written english is not enough for that purpose, I am sorry.

 

[Iris]

then try it in german!
My german isn't wonderful but maybe i understand what you mean. Otherwise use a dictionary! Those things fucking rule!

xxx Iris xxx

 

[Soul of Ice]

Originally posted by Lord of Metal
I would like to hear your opinions on heaven, hell, god or gods or whatever, and your idea of the soul. I love to hear others beliefs because it helps me to advance my own.

Well about the free will thing--(I am a Christian)--I believe we do have it, even though God did create us. I dont really believe he is threatening us with eternal damnation or eternal bliss. I believe that if we lead a good relatively (gotta have some debauchery or else we arent human) moral life, you will be rewarded in the afterlife. If the bad outweighs the good i think there will be some sort of punishment (i am not sure of what and dont claim to know what happens). It's a very similar to the idea of Karma (at least to me). We do have free will because we choose to do what we do in life. God does not control us. He is more of the voyeur position watching what we do and what happens instead of divinely intervening. If you choose to do good, that is free will. If you choose to do bad, that is free will. If you choose to not believe in God, that is free will as well.

Heaven - to me would just be a state of peace and happiness (with oneself and the world)

Hell - to me a constant state of indecision, worrying, and fear. The soul would not be at rest. (but what the hell do i know?)

another thing - I do not believe the "Devil" is evil. I believe that the devil is just temptation that God created to test our morals.

The soul - The quintessence of who you are. I believe your soul is your personality. Everyone's personality is different and unique, so is everyones soul. The human body contains electricity, and energy cannot be created or destroyed, so when to body dies the electricity must go somewhere and not disappear. I believe your soul is carried in that electricity.

God - for the universe to have been created, there must have been an initial imbalance. Originally the universe was the size of an atom. No one knows what could possibly have started that imbalance so i believe there must have been something to act as a catalyst to start the whole thing. I believe in the idea of God and i also believe in evolution. There must be a higher power in the universe and thats what I believe what God is. And through the bible gives us morals and guidelines to show us how to be a good person. He does not force us to follow. It is up for the individual to accept him or not.

ok i am drained a bit now. Those are some of my personal beliefs. Think what you will of them. I cant say that i am right or wrong and i wont say anyone else is wrong because there is too much unsurity about this subject, and I am not one of those Christians who damn others beliefs. One must be open minded. That is my main belief.

 

[Chuut-Riit]

Originally posted by Iris
then try it in german!
My german isn't wonderful but maybe i understand what you mean. Otherwise use a dictionary! Those things fucking rule!

xxx Iris xxx

I could try.
But hey, Soul of Ice comes close to it, I even linked my christian views partially with Lord's ones (self created reality takes grip in the afterlife - if you were a positive, friendly, balanced etc person, you will create your heaven - if you were "evil" (aggressive, hateful and so on) this will make afterlife to a personal hell.
God gave the initial blow towards to the creation of our universe, and maybe he even made the quantum foam some astrophysicists believe is the "substance" of the multiverse - but this is just hypothesis, so I know I am knowing nothing.

I believe in God, but my views and thoughts differ from mass religions and churches.

 

[PlatypusJesus]

I'm sorry guys, I spent like 30 minutes responding to all three of you and then my computer messed up and I lost the response. Shit. Basically, I agree with a lot of what you said iris, I don't have much to say about what you said soi, and chuut-riit, you got a little confused. I don't believe in hell or heaven. I think that there isn't really an after life but the one after this one is just a continuation of this one, just in a different form and different environment. Man, I wish I hadn't lost all of what I said. Damn it.

 

[Iris]

then try again, when you got the time... please?
I like to hear where you agree or disagree with me.
This sort of conversations are very usefull, because you share stuff. It's a very vulnerable subject but i must admit, other peoples perspectives do interest me, a lot.
And Soul of ice, i think your definition about the devil, is a wise one! I don't see it that way BUT i do like the fact, you thought about it and made your own conclusion, you found your own way to believe in your god, i never succeeded in that part

xxx Iris xxx

 

[azal]

I'd just like to say I that absolutely did not read any of the above and have no plans to.

 

[PlatypusJesus]

Alright Iris, I am going to try to respond again to yours and to soi and to c-r. First you Iris. I believe that all humans have a connection, and we communicate by this connection, and a lot of times, we don't even realize we are communicating. It's like when you come up with an idea, and you say "How did I come up with that, I've never even thought about it?" Well, someone else did and you connected with them long enough to receive that same idea. Yes, I still believe that the real you is your mind, but we could not do everything in this world without our tools, so you must also become one with your tools. Learn them, understand them, use them, and become one with them. Embrace everything, because it is all there to help you, not to hinder you. And yes, humans could do so much more. And I wonder a lot, why humans don't question things more. I've always thought that human beings were inquisitive creatures, so I don't understand why so many just except things, but then I think about laziness. Yes, humans are very lazy and that is what holds us back. Yes, believing and having hope is very important to humans. It gives you something to look forward to, something to believe in, something to guide you, something to help you get over death and grief, and something to help you be a better human being. So yes, religion is important, but a lot of times, people forget what it is really about and use it the wrong way. They forget that their religion is just for them, and they start pushing theirs on everyone else. Hope is very important, it keeps people living, it helps them to think that they are not insignificant. For me, I just look at life in this world as an experience, and everyone experiences it in a different way. Now for SoI. Thank you for responding, I appreciate your insight. I see how you can say that hell exist because of the way you look at the soul. And it makes perfect sense, I just look at the soul a different way. The only thing that I really have to comment on is your ending paragraph. Very nice. I feel the same way, I don't think that I am right or wrong, I just find that what I think makes perfect sense to me. I don't just take what someone say and just agree with it, and I don't expect anyone to agree with what I say either. And it is stupid for anyone to believe that they are correct and everyone else is wrong, because there are so many possibilities. And now for C-R. "christian views partially with Lord's ones (self created reality takes grip in the afterlife - if you were a positive, friendly, balanced etc person, you will create your heaven - if you were "evil" (aggressive, hateful and so on) this will make afterlife to a personal hell."
I think you kind of misunderstood what I said. I don't believe in hell or heaven. I think that there isn't really an after life but the one after this one is just a continuation of this one, just in a different form and different environment. And finally, I don't think that being an evil person is necessarily a bad thing. You see, I think that in this world, there is a balance between good and evil and everyone has good in them and everyone has evil in them. So the evil people are just helping to maintain an even balance, just like the people who are more good. But no one is pure evil and no one is pure good. Now, it is easier to be evil then it is to be good, and I would suggest the harder route, but it doesn't make you a bad person if you take the easier route, just a person that is trying to help maintain a balance in this world.

 

[QRuEeTsItRiEoDn?]

Greetings,
As the resident Buddhist of the board I guess I'll put my insight and whatnot. As most know Buddhism has no fountainhead of the universe. (God, Creator what have you) Many people discard it even as a belief system because of this but that's because their mindset says that religion is how you worship God. Heaven & Hell to me, sound majorly like a political creation during times of rebellion of the slaves and the like. (Hey, the Egyptians used this tactic to screw over people) I am open-minded enough to admit I could be wrong etc. I simply don't believe in what the majority of people here believe. (Monotheism) It's tough sometimes to be a Buddhist in a overtly Christian society where you are bombarded by "your only hope for salvation" everywhere, but everyday there's always something that confirms my choice in lifestyle was correct...at least for me.

"Chuckles" (Note: Not RELIGIOUS by any means) As for the "The Devil"..seems a bit like someone personified the YANG side of the Tao. This isn't to say I don't get along with any Xians etc. heck one of my best friends is an avid member of Judaism, but they give me an awful lot of trouble for being "God's people" lol. Hopefully I didn't offend anyone though.