reamping behind their backs...

Dude, blend the original crappy amp signal with the DI reamped one.
My sugestion for the mix:

99,999% the reamped tone.
0,001% the original tone.

This way you´ll not lie while telling him that his amp is on the mix :P
 
It´s always funny to record an amateur band with crappy amps and they will tell you "We want exactly THAT sound because we want to reproduce it when playing live. We don´t need a a rectifier-we don´t sound like this when playing shows...."

But if you have the first single notes of their drumkits triggered and replaced their weak playing with FAT bass drum and snare hits then suddenly they love you. :heh:

The important point is where the band is willing to go to and if you have figured that out and they want to sound like Korn you HAVE TO tell them their guitar sound is not made with a Marshall valvestate combo. :lol:
 
Valvestates are good, here there are mostly MGs, Vamp2s and various zoom/digitech/boss processors :lol: ......:) .....:waah:
 
Yeah honestly I am pretty up front with it, and bands do not mind because most of them are rockin shitty little solid state combo amps that they know will sound like ass if we record them.

So just be honest most of the time it's not an issue, sometimes that what they want so... I guess whatever pasifies them.
 
not recording a D.I. these days is irresponsible... so record the DI, period.. no matter what the band says.. you don't have to use it.

there are many stubborn guitarists who have no clue that their idea of good guitar sound sucks the chode out of a dead racoon's ass...but as an engineer your livelihood is is inextricably tied to your reputation.. and your reputation, until you gain "big dog" status... and to a degree even after, is only as good as your last project... so, you always have the option of just declining to work with bands who won't let you do your job to the detriment of the final result.

just take the DI... then if guitarist's sound sucks, re-amp.... i've said on here before to just do it and don't tell, but personally i always tell the band... because if you know what you're doing they'll love the improvement in the sound and it serves no purpose to let them think it was their "awesome crate" or whatever.... tell them and they'll have yet another reason to love what you've done for them.

this is such a non-issue really.... always take a DI, always, i don't care how good it sounds with the original amp... just do it. fuck, if only for the sake of how much easier it makes editing (a LOT easier to see each note/chord on the DI track).

a couple here have said they'd do violence to an engineer if they discovered they'd Re-amped their guitars.... whatever, don't hire a mixer then... just do it yourself, and get all the credit!! it's just an option people.... i'd rather have all the options open when it comes time to mix.

someone else mentioned "purposely bad" guitar tone. sure... sometimes you go for a certain character that's not meant to sound great by itself... but fits the picture of what you're doing production-wise at certain points in a track... i think it's a given that everyone understands this (analogous to doing things like having the singer sing through a bullhorn to capture that effect where it's needed) and doesn't need mentioning. kind of a "well duh" item.

and of course what constitutes "killer tone" on one project does not necessarily = killer tone on another.... i.e., Clutch's new CD has awesome guitar tone... but probably not for Dream Theater. yeah, another "duh" item.
 
Not so much "narrow minded" as maybe...I dunno. People that are saying that taking a DI and then reamping "against what the band wants" is a bad thing to do...well...they just haven't learned yet. You can have the most killer drum, bass and vocal sound of all time, but if the guitars blow because the dude LOVED his shitty amp then the fact that the drums, bass and vocals rocked doesn't even matter. People in this world (recording, mixing, etc.) listen to music a *whole* lot differently than Joe Listener. We are critical when it comes to the production quality of a record. Something that your average listener, or musician for that matter, might never really catch (production wise) will stick out like a sore thumb to us.

As an engineer a big part of your job is not a general "do the best with what they give you"...it's way more complicated than that, especially these days. Now it's more like "do the best with what YOU know and can do ABOUT what they give you". Which means if the drummer blows and/or his kit is horrendous, you need to trigger it and replace the sounds. If a vocalist can't hit notes, you need to pitch correct the tracks. If the guitar sounds like ass, you need to reamp or at the very least get them to use a good amp that you have or that you/they can borrow. Why feel bad about reamping? All you are doing is providing them with the best sound possible for them that you can come up with. I don't see why anybody would be pissed/upset/disappointed about that. I'm sorry but if a band insists they use their shitty gear, they're just fucking dumb. Nobody, and I mean absolutely nobody, in their right mind wants shitty tone, shitty drums or vocals that are off pitch. That's just retarded.

Besides all that, I'll be fucking damned if I let something with my name on it as the engineer/producer leave sounding a certain way when I could've easily just done something about it (reamping, pitch correction, drum replacement).

~e.a
 
There's some truth in both sides. But something to never forget, in my humble opinion (I know some will bash me for saying that...), is that you are there to serve the band (in the case the band is paying) and its music, not your career or your ego. Don't arrive (and that applies in any domain) with the certitude that you know better than everybody else in the room, you would miss a lot of opportunities to learn things (hell, even Andy learns new things from time to time) and maybe, to bring something new to the table...
 
I see your point but I think 'serve' is a bit too strong a word. You should definetely work for the good of the band but, naturally, this includes disagreeing with the band sometimes.
 
I see your point but I think 'serve' is a bit too strong a word. You should definetely work for the good of the band but, naturally, this includes disagreeing with the band sometimes.
Yeah, but ultimately, this is the band's music and baby, so don't do things in their back, there's no need to be dishonest. If they prefer something you don't like even after you proposed something else, and tried everything to make them change their mind, then go for it and make it good. After all, they are the artists, not you, aren't they? That's their vision.
 
Brett, it comes down to what you want to do as an engineer.... and understand please that i'm not talking about subjective taste... because in that realm, hey... maybe this artist's tone you don't like will spark a whole new paradigm in guitar tones and become the "next big thing"... doubtful, but stranger things have happened. No, i'm talking about amateur ears insisting on amateur sounds that even with all the tools of the trade at your disposal you cannot "fix'.... unless there are D.I. tracks... you follow?

the only thing left to decide in that situation is A.) do you really want to work with artists at this level... and if you have to, do you want to ultimately graduate from that level and move up the ladder? and B.) are you "building a career" or are you "holding down a job"?

once again this is so simple.. just take the D.I.... you don't HAVE to use it, but if you have a D.I. and an extra input channel it's irresponsible these days to not record the D.I., not just a choice. Several times during my first couple years recording the Artist and/or myself were very happy with the guitar sound while tracking.... but come mix time we either hated it, or the guitarist got a new amp that he was in love with and wished he had used on the recording. but i didn't know about re-amping then. you guys KNOW... so there's no excuse to ever put yourself in that situation... nevermind that you never know what will happen with a band.. they may get signed off the recording you did and the label will want to use the tracks you did as the Masters... BUT, they want a big name mixer to mix it.... YAY! your first label production credit... woo hooo!! but wait... you didn't take a D.I. and the mixer loathes the guitar tone you got.... oops.:cry:



now eventually you'll get to the point that you are confident with the guitar tones you dial in and so fears about hating the tone come mix time will lessen (though no matter how experienced you are that possibility never goes away totally)... but you can never fully account for either the "new amp" situation or the other mixer that may be hired and what his subjective tastes may be.
 
This'll be the first project which I take a DI signal... I have to buy a redeye for this project... never actually reamped before... this is going to be fun...

Its going to be a 10 song CD... and they came to me because of the mixes I've done... so, I guess that says a lot about what I'm doing...

Now I'm just trying to figure out how to get the vocals to sound great... I just picked up an at4040... but I have no decent pre's to throw them through...

I'll post up some samples when it comes to pass... which is the first week of September...

oh... and I totally agree with EVERYTHING James said... I'm trying to make a career out of this, not just pay bills...

:rock:
 
Some months ago I proposed to record my friend's album.
6-7 songs, record it, mix it, master it...not a little work.
He ask me if 1000€ were enough....I thought "fuck yeah"...but it was a lot for a friend...
I didn't meet/listen him for a month...I send him some phone messages..and he said me that he wants my price for the work...I said him "500€" (it's a friend..but not big friend..and it was the half of his proposal. Another month with no news.
An evening I find the drummer on skype (another friend) and I ask him if he know my proposal of work...and he said me that.. the friend was recording the cd (with no preamps, with shitty mics and the drums section I listened was shit). I said him that I have ddrum triggers, alesis dm5, preamps....for a better work.
drummer "I don't like trigger"
me "I use them not for have a fake sound but for editing"
drummer "I prefer to learn to play drums before use triggers"
me "Most of the famous drummers you listen use triggers in studio. The point is that live you show how you can do. In studio you have to do all the things perfectly for a perfect sound!"
He didn't undestand.
Moreover, the demo drums track have some blasted parts...and in 8 beats I listened his kick 2/3 times.. IN A BLASTBEAT PART!
So I said him "I give you an advice...do the blast beat with 2 feet. It sounds more defined and you can ear every kick..and you are more relaxed during the fast parts"
drummer "it's not my goal!"
me "yeah...but it's useless if you don't ear the kicks!"
drummer "With practice I'll do correctly..we don't have hurry.."
With practice during the recording?????????
Fuck you and your fucking band!!!! I don't serve these motherfuckers!!!!
Some bands deserve to be brailed up!