recording drums in a dining room, tips and concerns?

[lolzgreg]

those room calculations are bassed on enclosed spaces
have a look at the pictures, you'll see there are 3 very large openings to the room

Yes, but they still play a role in this.

I would have the drums facing AWAY from the fireplace, because you would have the most "diffusion" from the fireplace being made of different materials and being of varying shapes. Also, best the direct sound of the drums pour out into the different rooms.

I've gotten the best results by hanging a moving blanket or two above the drums-no direct reflections into the overheads this way.

The dullness will be a problem unfortunately, I tried recording drums on carpet once. It wasn't too much fun.

 

[joeymusicguy]

Yes, but they still play a role in this.

I would have the drums facing AWAY from the fireplace, because you would have the most "diffusion" from the fireplace being made of different materials and being of varying shapes. Also, best the direct sound of the drums pour out into the different rooms.

I've gotten the best results by hanging a moving blanket or two above the drums-no direct reflections into the overheads this way.

The dullness will be a problem unfortunately, I tried recording drums on carpet once. It wasn't too much fun.

i've always recorded drums on carpet, so i should be used to the results

hmmm

 

[Psych05]

Joey, I'm really a big fan of your work so far - but I don't see where this will benefit you. See, you want to improve, right? A square room is about the worst sounding thing to record in. The openings will make it a little better than a closed square room, but a little better than worst case is still... you know? I don't know where you recorded so far, still my educated guess is that this cannot bring an improvement over your previous recordings. The reflections there will be unpleasant. You can try and really kill the reflections, but the more you do, the more dull it will sound. And then why record somewhere else anyway?
Isn't there any other rooms you can try? Look for a room where length, width and height are different, but not multitudes of each other. This way the standing waves at least get spread out pretty evenly. Best thing would of course be a room with no standing waves (i.e. no parallel walls), but you can absolutely get away with a "good" rectangular room.

 

[joeymusicguy]

Joey, I'm really a big fan of your work so far - but I don't see where this will benefit you. See, you want to improve, right? A square room is about the worst sounding thing to record in. The openings will make it a little better than a closed square room, but a little better than worst case is still... you know? I don't know where you recorded so far, still my educated guess is that this cannot bring an improvement over your previous recordings. The reflections there will be unpleasant. You can try and really kill the reflections, but the more you do, the more dull it will sound. And then why record somewhere else anyway?
Isn't there any other rooms you can try? Look for a room where length, width and height are different, but not multitudes of each other. This way the standing waves at least get spread out pretty evenly. Best thing would of course be a room with no standing waves (i.e. no parallel walls), but you can absolutely get away with a "good" rectangular room.

i dont really have any other options at this point. its impossible to keep up with my work load by moving my equipment around. when i am tracking for a new record, i am editing a previous one, and mixing another. when i move my equipment, i lose time and the ability to edit and mix because the tracking has to take place at the old studio (terrible room as well)... and editing / mixing there is just terrible when compared to doing it at my house

at the old studio, the drum room is like 12 by 10 by 9 with a control room window, a door, and untreated walls. somehow there are no reflections in this room O_O but its pretty similair to the situation im in now if i treat the reflections...

the floor is 3/4 carpet, 1/4 concrete, the door is metal

unless anyone can think of another solution, this is my only option, honestly

until i can save up the 20 grand required to build my dream room in my backyard on top of the concrete foundation i already have

 

[Psych05]

Sorry to hear that you don't have any other options. Your work schedule sounds really impressive. If I would have to edit the last band while recording the next I freak out! I always try to finish one before starting the next. Do you sleep?

at the old studio, the drum room is like 12 by 10 by 9 with a control room window, a door, and untreated walls.

You see - witdth, length and height are different. Which is probably the reason why you didn't feel the need to treat the room. Because the reflections are not unpleasant.

If you really need to use the room you should probably really deaden the shit out of it and then use reverb to give back a little life. Another thing which comes to my mind - my room acoustics teacher once mentioned this and I have seen it used to great effect in a studio: Get some sort of cheap wood panels (like, at least 2cm thick), a little higher than your ceiling is, and then place them against one wall.
Like this -> /|
Or if you fix them at the ceiling like this \|
Maybe 50cm into the room. This really helps. Not with the bass frequencies I guess, the material is probably not heavy enough - but that's irrelevant if it's only about the overheads. And at 500Hz upwards this will easily completly eliminate any standing waves / flutter echoes. Much better than colmpletly deadening the room and making it dull and taking the life out of it.

 

[joeymusicguy]

Sorry to hear that you don't have any other options. Your work schedule sounds really impressive. If I would have to edit the last band while recording the next I freak out! I always try to finish one before starting the next. Do you sleep?

well you get that option, i dont really get that option. my schedule is booked every single day of 2009 and jan of 2010. so even if i already know what im doing tomorrow, usually something happens to where im still doing something from yesterday. for instance, if we get behind on a record its a constant cycle of playing catch up until its finished while im still adhearing to the schedule i already have (i am booked 8 months in advance).

You see - witdth, length and height are different. Which is probably the reason why you didn't feel the need to treat the room. Because the reflections are not unpleasant.

If you really need to use the room you should probably really deaden the shit out of it and then use reverb to give back a little life. Another thing which comes to my mind - my room acoustics teacher once mentioned this and I have seen it used to great effect in a studio: Get some sort of cheap wood panels (like, at least 2cm thick), a little higher than your ceiling is, and then place them against one wall.
Like this -> /|
Or if you fix them at the ceiling like this |
Maybe 50cm into the room. This really helps. Not with the bass frequencies I guess, the material is probably not heavy enough - but that's irrelevant if it's only about the overheads. And at 500Hz upwards this will easily completly eliminate any standing waves / flutter echoes. Much better than colmpletly deadening the room and making it dull and taking the life out of it.

i never planned on dulling the room but i planned on diffusing it.

this really ruins my day to hear that this might not be possible... ugh

im not really sure what to do now

 

[Psych05]

this really ruins my day to hear that this might not be possible... ugh

im not really sure what to do now

Well that was certainly not the plan... to ruin your day! But if I was booked that far in advance (again - f'in impressive man!) I would really try to get it right and make it a great sounding room. That can easily be achieved by getting rid of those parallel walls. The cheap way, like the wood-panel example above (doesn't look very professional, I know, but this IS really effective - and cheap, not much work) or by moving / creating new walls. I mean, don't get me wrong: Your recordings already sound great. So no need to freak out there. They will still sound great. I'm just thinking that you really seem to be in this for the long run. So you shouldn't settle with something that sounds worse than what you already have. And if you'll be using the room for the next five years or so, then it'll pay off if you get it right. That's all I'm saying.

 

[colonel kurtz]

quick question, mang...are you going to be tracking drums in there on a rare occasion, or on a regular basis until you build your other room?

 

[joeymusicguy]

quick question, mang...are you going to be tracking drums in there on a rare occasion, or on a regular basis until you build your other room?

a regular basis, unless its terrible

 

[colonel kurtz]

right on...

just curious, but do you still have the same phone # as before?

 

[joeymusicguy]

right on...

just curious, but do you still have the same phone # as before?

im not reachable by phone, because i dont get cell service at my house

pm me for my email addy

 

[colonel kurtz]

damn man, how far out in the sticks is your place?!

and i'm bailing out for work right now...but i'll throw a PM your way as soon as i get home

 

[Ermz]

Looking at the pictures, I would say that any sort of liveliness coming from a room of that size will be poor. I would treat as much of the surface area of those parallel walls as possible, then use the adjacent rooms as 'reverb chambers' for your room mics. Keep the dining room itself as tight as possible, put traps EVERYWHERE.

 

[colonel kurtz]

a regular basis, unless its terrible

if you're going to be tracking in there for a while, i would def. buy a big pile of rigid fiberglass to fill in the corners, and then cover a good portion of the walls and some of the ceiling as well

and don't let these guys discourage you on using that room...i tracked drums a few times in a fucking 7x7x7 shed behind my place and made it workable. it wasn't GREAT, but you wouldn't be able to tell it came from such a tiny space - and that was a bunch of shitty foam on the walls rather than fiberglass.

the key, for me, was to keep all the mics(including OH's) as close to the source as possible

 

[Metaltastic]

Check out these threads Joey, I compiled 'em some time ago when I was teaching myself about all this acoustic treatment hooha, and I think they should have all the info you need!

http://www.ultimatemetal.com/forum/andy-sneap/377128-basic-acoustic-treatment-help.html (Great overview)
http://www.ultimatemetal.com/forum/...ou-not-thinking-about-treating-your-room.html (Great overview)
http://www.ultimatemetal.com/forum/andy-sneap/352943-some-advice-diy-bass-traps-2.html (Info about 703 vs. 705, esp. on pg. 2)
http://www.ultimatemetal.com/forum/andy-sneap/361142-bass-trappin.html (Good info on DIY bass traps)

 

[crosstalk]

I've seen a lot of recording pictures of big productions where they recorded drums in tiny little rooms and ended up sounding great. I can't think of any specifically, but seemed like a lot of them didn't even have much treatment. Probably similar to the old studio room you've spoke of.

The plywood panels leaned against the wall sound like a great idea as far killing standing waves.

I found this pic of The Agonist recording their new album in what looks like a garage. Considering the drums are almost smashed up against the door and I'd almost guess that they have to raise the door for him to get out, I'm betting the room is pretty small. They sound good on the album IMO. Triggered heavily of course, but the cymbals sound nice to me.

 

[colonel kurtz]

ghetto representation...each wall panel a size of 2'x4', corners 12-18" across, depending on how much floor space you want to give up

should be doable with 8-10 2'x4' pieces of OC 703, or something comparable...would be about $100 with shipping for the panels, plus whatever other materials you would want. if aesthetics are important, throw in a few more bucks for fabric to cover the insulation, and possibly wood frames...if not, just mount the panels by themselves

 

[CatharsisStudios]

lotta weed

 

[lolzgreg]

I've seen a lot of recording pictures of big productions where they recorded drums in tiny little rooms and ended up sounding great. I can't think of any specifically, but seemed like a lot of them didn't even have much treatment. Probably similar to the old studio room you've spoke of.

The plywood panels leaned against the wall sound like a great idea as far killing standing waves.

I found this pic of The Agonist recording their new album in what looks like a garage. Considering the drums are almost smashed up against the door and I'd almost guess that they have to raise the door for him to get out, I'm betting the room is pretty small. They sound good on the album IMO. Triggered heavily of course, but the cymbals sound nice to me.

Rockwool ALL OVER THAT SHIZZLE, SON. As long as you kill all reflections from the front and back wall and a lot from the sides and keep a live floor, you can beat recording a kit in a tiny space.

-Greg

 

[KeithTidd]

lotta weed

i thought the same thing.