remixing my band's upcoming ep?

[Enemy242]

so i'm not sure where to post this but i posted my bands new ep on the Nevermore board and they said maybe someone here would be able to help us remix it? This ep is hopefully going to be a fairly big deal (we recorded it at sharkbite studios and we're getting the artwork done by a really famous death metal artist) and while we think the mix is good now, if someone could remix it better that'd be really awesome. sadly, I can't really pay anyone anything (we're completely broke basically, its going to cost about $4,000 for printing it, getting the art, the recording etc) but we'd definitely credit you so you'd get your name out there a bit if we do get signed or something.

we're going to be getting the protools tracks and stuff back soon so if anyone wants to give it a shot post a reply here and then when we get all the files we can send you a song or something so you can show us what your mix would sound like.

even if you're not interested in doing it, any feedback on the mix would be appreciated too since we're going to be getting it mastered so maybe theres something we could mention to him. you can hear the songs at our myspace:
www.myspace.com/invectionmetal

 

[Fox Mulder]

I wouldn't mind giving it a shot. ^_^

 

[TheDriller]

I'd like to have a go, just for lulz though

i'm sure there are loads of people around here gasping for material to practice the Mad Skillz on. could you upload the stems for a song somewhere?

 

[HandsOfDespair]

If you post the tracks of one song in wav format, I'm sure lot of people here will mix the song for you, then you could choose the mix you find the best and ask the guy who mixed it to mix the other songs.

 

[Unavailable]

Hah, that's funny. I know of you guys through Deadly Remains. I mixed their first demo (and am doing their new one right now).

 

[MetalJonesy]

id be interested!

 

[Enemy242]

awesome, thanks for your interest guys! Our drummer is going to be getting the tracks and all that stuff as soon as he can and I'll post them here once we do!

 

[Ermz]

You'll find a lot of people willing to give it a shot for you as practice here. The professional guys more than likely will not do it for free.

To be honest, it seems like a bit of a slap in the face. Obviously you paid for your recording time, you're paying the artist and you're paying for the pressing and distribution of the CD. Why does the mix process inherently hold less worth? When you budget for a CD, you need to budget for every process accordingly. The mix is inarguably one of the more important processes that your material goes through (certainly much more so than mastering), so it's a big failure on your part to account for it with your finances.

Sorry if I'm misconstruing the situation, but I've seen this happening a lot, and it really devalues the service that the person in question provides. It may just be me but I take quite a bit of offense at the idea. Sure, put one track up here for people to mix with and play around with... that way everyone can get constructive, you get a promo track to use, everyone polishes up their skills and gets a grasp on where they are in relation to everyone else. Get someone to mix an entire CD for free simply because you didn't budget enough to adequately reward that person for their service? Sounds absurd to me. Maybe just me.

 

[crosstalk]

You'll find a lot of people willing to give it a shot for you as practice here. The professional guys more than likely will not do it for free.

To be honest, it seems like a bit of a slap in the face. Obviously you paid for your recording time, you're paying the artist and you're paying for the pressing and distribution of the CD. Why does the mix process inherently hold less worth? When you budget for a CD, you need to budget for every process accordingly. The mix is inarguably one of the more important processes that your material goes through (certainly much more so than mastering), so it's a big failure on your part to account for it with your finances.

Sorry if I'm misconstruing the situation, but I've seen this happening a lot, and it really devalues the service that the person in question provides. It may just be me but I take quite a bit of offense at the idea. Sure, put one track up here for people to mix with and play around with... that way everyone can get constructive, you get a promo track to use, everyone polishes up their skills and gets a grasp on where they are in relation to everyone else. Get someone to mix an entire CD for free simply because you didn't budget enough to adequately reward that person for their service? Sounds absurd to me. Maybe just me.

Yeah, it's pretty amazing that the guy that will probably end up spending the most time working on the project will be the one doing the freebie.

 

[Enemy242]

You'll find a lot of people willing to give it a shot for you as practice here. The professional guys more than likely will not do it for free.

To be honest, it seems like a bit of a slap in the face. Obviously you paid for your recording time, you're paying the artist and you're paying for the pressing and distribution of the CD. Why does the mix process inherently hold less worth? When you budget for a CD, you need to budget for every process accordingly. The mix is inarguably one of the more important processes that your material goes through (certainly much more so than mastering), so it's a big failure on your part to account for it with your finances.

Sorry if I'm misconstruing the situation, but I've seen this happening a lot, and it really devalues the service that the person in question provides. It may just be me but I take quite a bit of offense at the idea. Sure, put one track up here for people to mix with and play around with... that way everyone can get constructive, you get a promo track to use, everyone polishes up their skills and gets a grasp on where they are in relation to everyone else. Get someone to mix an entire CD for free simply because you didn't budget enough to adequately reward that person for their service? Sounds absurd to me. Maybe just me.

Honestly I had never even thought about it before I posted the EP on the Nevermore board to see what people thought of it. We did have it mixed in the studio and I am happy with the mix, but when someone on the Nevermore board told me that people over here might be able to do it better I figured I'd see if that was true.

If I had known/thought about that I would've tried to set some money aside but I'm actually one of the only people in my band paying for this, I'm using most of my savings and putting everything I have into this (the other guys have maybe contributed 400 so far, most of which is band money in the first place) so even if I wanted to, I couldn't pay to have it done. I recently set aside a little bit of money for the mastering since I know it has to be done, but the remix is something that where if someone did an amazing job we'd redo and in that case I could try to come up with some money but I don't want to promise money to have people working on it for that reason (sounds like a huge generalization I know but I just want to make sure that no one would work on it like a job and then be angry if we didn't even decide to remix it whereas someone doing it for practice and a new experience gains no matter what).

Again, I figured it would also be good practice and great exposure and the studio and artist are established and don't really gain anything out of doing it besides money but yeah I totally see where you're coming from in that aspect and I agree but how can I guarantee to pay if I have no money left over?

 

[slashvanyoung]

I told him that this board is bursting with talent and that some people would probably give this a shot for no or little money, just for rep and practising...

I wholeheartedly agree with what you're saying here Ermin, but I don't think it necessarily applies here. What do we have here? A bunch of young guys with basically no recording experience, scraping their few bucks together to record AND get a mix at a professional and reputable studio.

They DID calculate the costs for a professional mix, just didn't expect the results to leave much desired. A lesson learnt.

I don't see the problem here. He certainly doesn't expect the guys earning their breakfast to "waste" their time on this and the initial responses showed that some would gladly take a shot at it.

 

[Ermz]

@slash: I understand the predicament. I've dealt with a lot of bands in the same situation.

But look at it from the mixing guy's perspective. He's probably as broke, if not worse, busting his ass to mix an entire CD for a meager credit on the liner notes, which may only end up being read by a handful of people - how many of which are likely to give him future business (paid or otherwise)?

I understand that there was a miscalculation and that's unfortunate, but I think expecting someone to mix an entire CD simply for a credit, whether or not they are pro, amateur, hobbyist etc. is simply unfair. Would you expect an apprentice tradesman to spend a week building a fence out the front of your house with the only reward being you telling all your friends about him? You would at least provide the guy with drinks, give him some better tools, or pay him some money on the side for it.

I'm not looking at this from the perspective of it causing any issues to the 'pro' guys. Of course most of them don't care... It's the mentality itself that I take issue with. To do a half to a week's worth of work (which, realistically, is what a 3-5 track EP would take to mix) with no remuneration devalues the service and the service provider. As much as I understand that a bunch of young guys would jump at the opportunity, you have to essentially put in perspective that the band want the engineer to work *at a loss* for that week simply to get a credit. It's hardly fair, is it? At least a few bucks, maybe some hand-me-down plug-in sets, gear, whatever are warranted methinks... at least put in some measure of good faith that the favor that the mixer is doing the band is appreciated.

Anyway, I don't want to ruin the thread with a big debate. I've said my piece, and to all of you who are considering this, all the best to you and I hope you strike up a good working relationship. I just hope that you find projects in the future that are willing to reward you more adequately for your hard work.

 

[Meisterjäger]

Seems to me the thought of a remix only occured to the guy when someone (slash, from what I understand) brought it up. It doesn't seem like he's come here begging after finding out his budget can't stretch to finish the product, so I think knocking his budgeting skills are a bit off. Afterall, he did say REmix from the get-go, lending to the idea the recordings have already been through the mix process.

Let's be honest, if someone said to you that there's a forum chock full of people able to remix a recording that might need touching up, and on top of that be told it could be done for little to no money, that'd definitely pique your interest. Simply asking can't hurt, I'd do exactly the same thing.

I do hear what you're saying, dude, don't get me wrong... but if someone decides they wanna do it, then they know what they're getting into.

 

[Skinny Viking]

Seems to me the thought of a remix only occured to the guy when someone (slash, from what I understand) brought it up. It doesn't seem like he's come here begging after finding out his budget can't stretch to finish the product, so I think knocking his budgeting skills are a bit off. Afterall, he did say REmix from the get-go, lending to the idea the recordings have already been through the mix process.

Let's be honest, if someone said to you that there's a forum chock full of people able to remix a recording that might need touching up, and on top of that be told it could be done for little to no money, that'd definitely pique your interest. Simply asking can't hurt, I'd do exactly the same thing.

I do hear what you're saying, dude, don't get me wrong... but if someone decides they wanna do it, then they know what they're getting into.

I agree 100%. I also commend and respect your position in this Moonlapse, every point you made was completely valid however I think there is no harm in the guy just asking if there is even an interest for someone to do it. Again though, I completely respect the fact that you said outloud what some were thinking in that you don't want to see people being taken advantage of. Just for my opinion, I don't think that really applies to this situation

Now, as someone else said ... throw up the waves to a song. I have a little free time so I might even be able to give this a shot

 

[Ermz]

Yeah look I certainly don't want to ruin anybody's fun here or derail the thread entirely. If this is up your alley, mix away. I just felt like I needed to voice some concerns on the increasing frequency of these sorts of requests and how they seem to reflect on the perceived value of work we (as engineers) do. As harmless as the request and thread are, you need to understand that indulging these requests only serves to further harm the industry, in particular its newcomers, in the long run.

I feel for the kids who are doing this and need to support it with another job, like it's a hobby and not a profession. I think it's fair to ask that they at least receive something in return for their work. Whether it's a copy of AD, SSD 3, a few bucks per track, whatever. Of course nobody is entitled to that unless they ask, and as long as there are those who will work for free, there will be no entitlement...

Anyway, that's all. I leave this thread back to you guys. Have a ball with the mixes.

 

[doom:vs]

I would love to give it a try as well!

 

[kaomao]

To be honest, it seems like a bit of a slap in the face. Obviously you paid for your recording time, you're paying the artist and you're paying for the pressing and distribution of the CD. Why does the mix process inherently hold less worth? When you budget for a CD, you need to budget for every process accordingly. The mix is inarguably one of the more important processes that your material goes through (certainly much more so than mastering), so it's a big failure on your part to account for it with your finances.

Well said moony!

 

[GarethSE]

I feel for the kids who are doing this and need to support it with another job, like it's a hobby and not a profession. I think it's fair to ask that they at least receive something in return for their work. Whether it's a copy of AD, SSD 3, a few bucks per track, whatever. Of course nobody is entitled to that unless they ask, and as long as there are those who will work for free, there will be no entitlement...

+1
your last point especially
theres a problem very similar to that going on locally, studio's totally undercutting everyone else's prices, leaving no work for young talent who have passion, but no portfolio (and especially no money)

Edit: i just realised that relating this local situation to this may not make much sense, my mind tends to make really stupid links between things.
Basically, I meant to say that it just creates this awkward situation for guys just starting out, where good mixing is deemed unimportant and disables new talent from making the money they deserve to be making.

 

[Metaltastic]

theres a problem very similar to that going on locally, studio's totally undercutting everyone else's prices, leaving no work for young talent who have passion, but no portfolio (and especially no money)

Sorry dude, but I gotta be a capitalist and say "cry me a freakin' river!"

 

[GarethSE]

Sorry dude, but I gotta be a capitalist and say "cry me a freakin' river!"

You a real cold fish Marcus haha

EDIT: and it's not especially affecting me that much now. I'm getting some decent money coming in from mixing bands across the pond, but there are other peeps I know that are having trouble down here.
And besides, we all gotta put food on the table, right?