That's why I don't like them - they have always looked at the current trends, like disco (Turbo) or Neo-Thrash (Jugulator).
Roadrunner and the beginnings of metal...
- Thread starter Jim LotFP
- Start date
That's why I don't like them - they have always looked at the current trends, like disco (Turbo) or Neo-Thrash (Jugulator).
Don't save all your vitriol for me, Mahmoud. Listen to OR, he clearly knows what the fuck he's talking about. You're just making things up.
Better yet, listen to Wishbone Ash' "Error Of My Ways" and Jethro Tull's "Nothing To Say" to hear the blueprint for Maiden's signature guitar harmony sound.
Priest already introduced the sound and look (leather and all) that proved to be so influential on HM on Stained Class and Killing Machine (US Title: Hell Bent For Leather), both from 1978. Other than that I won't deny they're bandwagon jumpers. So releasing a slick FM-pop/rock album (Point Of Entry) at the height of the NWOBHM was not really a wise move on their part
Personally I think their best album is 1975's Sad Wings Of Destiny, before they became formulaic and gimmicky.
BTW, Metallica were not NWOBHM contemporaries.
Better yet, listen to Wishbone Ash' "Error Of My Ways" and Jethro Tull's "Nothing To Say" to hear the blueprint for Maiden's signature guitar harmony sound.
Priest already introduced the sound and look (leather and all) that proved to be so influential on HM on Stained Class and Killing Machine (US Title: Hell Bent For Leather), both from 1978. Other than that I won't deny they're bandwagon jumpers. So releasing a slick FM-pop/rock album (Point Of Entry) at the height of the NWOBHM was not really a wise move on their part
Personally I think their best album is 1975's Sad Wings Of Destiny, before they became formulaic and gimmicky.BTW, Metallica were not NWOBHM contemporaries.
DBB
Member
- Dec 20, 2005
- 370
- 1
- 18
LOOK OUT! MAKE WAY!
It’s the original topic out of the blue.
Terrorizer has quite a few things along these lines to say as well, but they push it forward in time a little bit.
The lead editorial calls the album "a well-versed recognition of their musical roots, seamlessly assimilating a classic ‘80s metal strand." The interviewer labels it "an accessible album that shamelessly flaunts its ‘80s roots." And the reviewer claims it is marked by a “total ‘80s influence incorporating Iron Maiden, German thrash, melodic pomp and goth-pop."
Here is Dani Filth's profound and perceptive take on this turn of events:
It’s the original topic out of the blue.
JimLotFP said:
Terrorizer has quite a few things along these lines to say as well, but they push it forward in time a little bit.
The lead editorial calls the album "a well-versed recognition of their musical roots, seamlessly assimilating a classic ‘80s metal strand." The interviewer labels it "an accessible album that shamelessly flaunts its ‘80s roots." And the reviewer claims it is marked by a “total ‘80s influence incorporating Iron Maiden, German thrash, melodic pomp and goth-pop."
Here is Dani Filth's profound and perceptive take on this turn of events:
"Suddenly realized," my ass…
I remember the Metal Maniacs article for Cruelty and the Beast in 98 and they were all having a big old laugh about the 80s metal that influenced THAT album.
I don't buy that at all. They're basically playing Priest riffs at punk tempos - that's where the dual guitar thing (and the wailing vocals) in metal came from anyway. There's no need to look outside the genre when one of the biggest metal bands in the world introduced the concepts.
Priest used the dual guitar technique too - and in a context that was fully metal. Maiden built on that technique, adding punk inspired tempos and the band's signature gallop, but the basic technique is derived from Priest (with no need to credit fag bands Jethro Tull).
My Man, you may be a specialist in black and death noise, but you do not know much about early hard/heavy/prog/whatever rock. You just cannot dispute what I have said when the people responisble for the music (i.e. Maiden) keep repeating that when asked about their influences. And if you had learned your history lesson concerning pre-metal, you would agree.
I'll still take Steve Harris' word over yours (not to mention the fact that Maiden has actually covered songs by 'fag' bands like Jethro Tull, Nektar and Thin Lizzy)
BenMech
student of the d'eh
You disqualify anything you say by removing knowledge of who Priest listened to when, as you say, Maiden or Cradle or whoever did a style. Then again, you're an ANUSboard follower
It doesn't matter what they SAY - what matters is what they PLAY (see the Motorhead discussion above). The music Iron Maiden plays is a hell of a lot closer to Priest than it is to Wishbone Ash or (dear god) Jethro Dull. That makes clear where the REAL influence was coming from.
I'll still take Steve Harris' word over yours (not to mention the fact that Maiden has actually covered songs by 'fag' bands like Jethro Tull, Nektar and Thin Lizzy)
Yeah, but you're a proven moron, so I think it's pretty safe to say that NO ONE cares whose word you take.
See? That's where you're wrong.
Actually it's not. Well, unless you're a shallow listener of course.
Nope. It doesn't work like that.
What group are you representing? At least I can speak for myself
But am I to understand that you actually deny that Maiden have played songs by Tull, Nektar and Lizzy?
EXTRA!! EXTRA!! The Mahmoud Interviews!! A sneak preview!!
MMM: "So Lemmy, tell me how Black Sabbath influenced you"
LEMMY: "They didn't really..."
MMM: "Yes, they did!"
LEMMY: "...err no, my heroes were Little Richard, Chuck Berry, The Beatles, The Yardbirds and.."
MMM: "No, they weren't!"
LEMMY: "..."
MMM: "So Lemmy, tell me about what Heavy Metal means to you"
LEMMY: "Well, I never really cared for..."
MMM: "Yes, you do!"
MMM: "So Lemmy, tell me how Black Sabbath influenced you"
LEMMY: "They didn't really..."
MMM: "Yes, they did!"
LEMMY: "...err no, my heroes were Little Richard, Chuck Berry, The Beatles, The Yardbirds and.."
MMM: "No, they weren't!"
LEMMY: "..."
MMM: "So Lemmy, tell me about what Heavy Metal means to you"
LEMMY: "Well, I never really cared for..."
MMM: "Yes, you do!"
Excerpt from an Yngwie interview:
One year later my older sister Lulu gave me DEEP PURPLE’s Fireball, which is a really hard rock album, and I went out and bought In Rock the next day. I was listening to songs like 'Fireball', 'Flight Of The Rat' - just so heavy - so I learned how to play all these solos and stuff and, contrary to most people’s opinion or theory, is that Deep Purple, along with all other rock ‘n’ roll bands were all blues based. Pentatonic scales and my classical influence did not come from them. A lot of people seem to think so, but no no no no.
I love these guys… my favourite band ever. My classical music didn’t come from there, but my love for hard rock was definitely from ’Purple. What I wanted to do was try and take this whole thing with the double bass drums and the Marshalls all the way up and all that shit, and play with counterpoints and pedal notes, inverted chords, Phrygian modes, inverted scales, diminished scales… all that shit.
Then I saw a TV program: it was a guy playing violin. They said it was music from Niccolo Paganini. When I heard that I said ‘fuck, that’s what I want to go for on the guitar’. So my guitar playing is 99.9 per cent influenced by classical violin… mainly Paganini, Vivaldi, and Tchaikovsky… and my songwriting is very Bach in the structuring, because I’ve always loved the counterpoint and the harmonic minor kind of things… but I love the sound of the metal ensemble. That’s how it all started."
One year later my older sister Lulu gave me DEEP PURPLE’s Fireball, which is a really hard rock album, and I went out and bought In Rock the next day. I was listening to songs like 'Fireball', 'Flight Of The Rat' - just so heavy - so I learned how to play all these solos and stuff and, contrary to most people’s opinion or theory, is that Deep Purple, along with all other rock ‘n’ roll bands were all blues based. Pentatonic scales and my classical influence did not come from them. A lot of people seem to think so, but no no no no.
I love these guys… my favourite band ever. My classical music didn’t come from there, but my love for hard rock was definitely from ’Purple. What I wanted to do was try and take this whole thing with the double bass drums and the Marshalls all the way up and all that shit, and play with counterpoints and pedal notes, inverted chords, Phrygian modes, inverted scales, diminished scales… all that shit.
Then I saw a TV program: it was a guy playing violin. They said it was music from Niccolo Paganini. When I heard that I said ‘fuck, that’s what I want to go for on the guitar’. So my guitar playing is 99.9 per cent influenced by classical violin… mainly Paganini, Vivaldi, and Tchaikovsky… and my songwriting is very Bach in the structuring, because I’ve always loved the counterpoint and the harmonic minor kind of things… but I love the sound of the metal ensemble. That’s how it all started."
WOW. Where to begin?
"Damage Case" is quite different from "Hole in the Sky", especially to someone who has played them both on a musical instrument?
Uriah Heep is King Diamond's favorite band, and also high on Kai Hansen's list?
Metallica actually were NWOBHM contemporaries?
No one here actually seems to have heard a lot of the albums/bands/songs under discussion, yet keeps firing away?
I suppose I should posit a few opinions rather than just snide questions... But I haven't got it in me at the moment. Suffice to say I disagree with almost everything that has been said in this thread, except for the personal insults, which might be accurate for all I know, but are probably just as ill-informed as the perceptions about the music being discussed.
Like I said, where to begin...
"Damage Case" is quite different from "Hole in the Sky", especially to someone who has played them both on a musical instrument?
Uriah Heep is King Diamond's favorite band, and also high on Kai Hansen's list?
Metallica actually were NWOBHM contemporaries?
No one here actually seems to have heard a lot of the albums/bands/songs under discussion, yet keeps firing away?
I suppose I should posit a few opinions rather than just snide questions... But I haven't got it in me at the moment. Suffice to say I disagree with almost everything that has been said in this thread, except for the personal insults, which might be accurate for all I know, but are probably just as ill-informed as the perceptions about the music being discussed.
Like I said, where to begin...
If this came from my comment, I must have phrased it (very) badly. What I was trying to say is...
Calling Judas Priest a NWOBHM band is just as wrong as calling Metallica a NWOBHM band. Priest came out before, Metallica after.
I believe you said that Metallica were essentially NWOBHM *contemporaries*, which is true within certain bounds. Most "historians" agree that the NWOBHM was in effect until 1985 at the earliest, some arguing 1987 as an end-date given Tysondog and the Charger single, the latter of which stands out as one of the surest examples of NWOBHM -- musically and otherwise. So Metallica's formative years would definitely be well within this timeframe.
What's missing from a lot of these arguments is the distinction between musical influence, ideological influence, and imagistic influence...
There is also the very real phenomenon of "skipping a generation" when tracing out these influences, Black Sabbath being a prime example with very few exceptions.
Also, Venom were hugely influenced, musically, by Deep Purple. A lot of bands who directly influenced the NWOBHM musically have not been mentioned here at all, in particular the Scorpions, Riot, and AC/DC. Led Zeppelin's role has been greatly understated as well, at least in this particular discussion.
I'll have more to add later.
What's missing from a lot of these arguments is the distinction between musical influence, ideological influence, and imagistic influence...
There is also the very real phenomenon of "skipping a generation" when tracing out these influences, Black Sabbath being a prime example with very few exceptions.
Also, Venom were hugely influenced, musically, by Deep Purple. A lot of bands who directly influenced the NWOBHM musically have not been mentioned here at all, in particular the Scorpions, Riot, and AC/DC. Led Zeppelin's role has been greatly understated as well, at least in this particular discussion.
I'll have more to add later.
Allright! Another sensible poster! :Smokin:
Personally I think there was no NWOBHM to speak of anymore when the NWOUSHM (let's call it that for argument's sake) set in. By 1985 a lot of the British bands had either split up or had become pop/rock acts (Tygers Of Pan Tang, Jaguar, Saxon, Raven). Bands like Tokyo Blade, Tyson Dog and Cloven Hoof simply were no match for their US contemporaries.
Also bands from the rest of Europe were more interesting than the British ones by then
Personally I think there was no NWOBHM to speak of anymore when the NWOUSHM (let's call it that for argument's sake) set in. By 1985 a lot of the British bands had either split up or had become pop/rock acts (Tygers Of Pan Tang, Jaguar, Saxon, Raven). Bands like Tokyo Blade, Tyson Dog and Cloven Hoof simply were no match for their US contemporaries.
Also bands from the rest of Europe were more interesting than the British ones by then
Similar threads
