Rock the Vote!

[Jim LotFP]

I disagree with your statement about most Americans being fiscally conservative and socially liberal. I believe most Americans to be fiscally conservative and socailly conservative as well. Most Americans, like myself, embrace out traditional values that our country was built upon. Most Americans realize the seriousness of the war on terror and want themselves and their families to be protected from additional terrorist attacks.

Most Americans, like most people anywhere, are friggin dolts. Unlike myself.

Keeps me from thinking that most Americans share my opinion, though.

Seriously though, what kind of brainwashing results in saying things like "embrace out traditional values"?

A neat trick I once read about is inserting "not" in sentences and see if they make sense. If they don't, then the original sentence is meaningless drivel. So...

"Most families do not realize the seriousness of the war on terror."

OK, that's legitimate debate.

"Most families do not want themselves and their families to be protected from additional terrorist attacks."

Drivel.

 

[adaher]

George Bush has been the single greatest recruiting tool for jihadists since the Crusades. By some estimates, we've killed 1,000,000 Iraqi civilians. Their population is only 26,000,000. We've killed one out of every 26 people that lives there. Those people are someone's child, someone's sibling, someone's parent, someone's spouse. By our own government's intelligence reports, we've increased extremism around the globe.


Well first, your figures are way off even the Lancet study's estimate of 600,000. Which also has serious problems of it's own. I won't get into a debate about just how many people have gotten killed(and whether WE killed them, something even the Lancet study won't say), because we simply don't know for sure. The number that matters most to me is 61%: the percentage of Iraqis who say the overthrow of Saddam was worth it. Either we are killing less people than we think, or Saddam was just THAT bad.

Al-Queda HAS to have wanted very badly to stage an attack before the elections here. After all, it worked perfectly in Spain, and the US electorate would be even easier to push over, and a much better 'plum.' It would completely discredit GWB's claim that "we're safer since going into Iraq" and be a total embarassment.
If an Islamic jihadist were over here and voting, they'd naturally favor the Democratic party, and would prefer that they win, hence the importance of staging an attack.


Well, Al qaeda does speak to the world, they do give interviews, and we capture documents. As for why we haven't been hit, bin Laden said in a tape to followers in 2004 that they've had difficulty recruiting suitable operatives for operations in the US. Back in 2002 we got reports that they wanted to recruit white Muslims from Bosnia. Problem is, we saved Bosnian and Kosovar Muslims back in the 90s. So I'm not surprised that that plan didn't work out for Al Qaeda. Al Qaeda does recruit well in the Balkans, but most of those guys are turning up fighting Russia in Chechnya, not us.

To address the other question, influencing elections, Al Qaeda has also commented on our elections. THey don't really care who wins. They have different strategies for both. If Republicans win, they figure we'll stay in Iraq and bleed. If Democrats win, they figure they'll be able to drive us out of some places like they did during the Clinton years.

Because of Iraq, they are in a no-lose situation. At least they think so. I disagree because once we are gone it's just them vs. the Iraqis. But then I will never accuse Al Qaeda leadership of having much in the way of brains.

 

[booB]

Until another party steps up and takes that challenge, all we have is what we have....

you can also replace "another party" with "the Democrats".

 

[edgeofthorns]

Most Americans, like most people anywhere, are friggin dolts. Unlike myself.

Keeps me from thinking that most Americans share my opinion, though.

Seriously though, what kind of brainwashing results in saying things like "embrace out traditional values"?

A neat trick I once read about is inserting "not" in sentences and see if they make sense. If they don't, then the original sentence is meaningless drivel. So...

"Most families do not realize the seriousness of the war on terror."

OK, that's legitimate debate.

"Most families do not want themselves and their families to be protected from additional terrorist attacks."

Drivel.

....and my post is drivel?

 

[Tarathur]

If you want change, then you have to go with a third party. I used to be an independent until I learned of the Libertarian party. I read their platform, educated myself about their history and track record, and for me, determined that they were the right fit. Folks need to find the right fit for themselves too. The only way to bring diversity and change to our political system is to support third parties. So, for those who are complaining that the Dems and the GOP offer nothing, find a third party to get behind and have the courage to cast your vote for them. Help to build that grass roots base that will give us a more diverse party system.

But, whatever you decide, make a choice and vote! Even if it's a write-in candidate!

Wassail! -j

 

[J-Man]

This is good, and it does my heart good to see all this debate. I spent 22 years in the US ARMY so that all of you, my friends and fellow Metlheads or just plain Progpower attendees have the freedom to go on a public forum and voice your beliefs and to stand up for what you believe and think, no matter what your political party affiliation is.

So please no matter what your party is Dem. Rep. Lib. Ind. or write-in go out Vote, and be proud you did, and that you had a say in how our government is run.

I applaud each and every one of you that has or will vote today.

 

[Harvester]

Please note that I believe voting is very important and that is why I'm leaving this thread open until tomorrow. After that, it goes away like all non-music threads.

 

[Tarathur]

Thanks, Glenn!

 

[General Zod]

Well first, your figures are way off even the Lancet study's estimate of 600,000. Which also has serious problems of it's own.

My bad. I don't know where I got that. I've read "The Human Cost of War in Iraq" and followed the fallout it caused. That said, the difference between the two numbers does nothing to invalidate the point I was making.

The number that matters most to me is 61%: the percentage of Iraqis who say the overthrow of Saddam was worth it. Either we are killing less people than we think, or Saddam was just THAT bad.

What about the number of Americans that think it was worth it? After all, we're paying for it, both with soldiers lives and our tax dollars. And what do you think that 61% number you referenced will be down to by the time we pull out because we've completely botched this?

Zod

 

[corvinus]

Lets just blow everything up and start over. where are the aliens from ID4 when you need them?

At least if there was an alien invasion we would forget our petty differences, join hands, and help Will Smith and Jeff Goldblum plant a virus in the alien's computer system(which is running off Mac OS by the way).

 

[General Zod]

I disagree with your statement about most Americans being fiscally conservative and socially liberal. I believe most Americans to be fiscally conservative and socailly conservative as well.

I'd disagree. I'd believe the largest number of Americans are close to the middle on most issues.

Most Americans, like myself, embrace out traditional values that our country was built upon.

I guess that depends how you define "traditional values".

Most Americans realize the seriousness of the war on terror and want themselves and their families to be protected from additional terrorist attacks.

I think people understand now, what the rest of the world knew for years; terrorism is a worldwide problem that needs to be dealt with. Unfortunately, we're failing to do so in any meaningful way. It's hard to take the Department of Homeland Security seriously, when they cut NY's terrorism budget by 40%.

Zod

 

[Braxil]

I voted. Anyone catch what Colbert had to say about Democratic control of the house? Had me laughing for a good while, the cake with Osama Bin Laden on it.

 

[edgeofthorns]

If you want change, then you have to go with a third party. I used to be an independent until I learned of the Libertarian party. I read their platform, educated myself about their history and track record, and for me, determined that they were the right fit. Folks need to find the right fit for themselves too. The only way to bring diversity and change to our political system is to support third parties. So, for those who are complaining that the Dems and the GOP offer nothing, find a third party to get behind and have the courage to cast your vote for them. Help to build that grass roots base that will give us a more diverse party system.

But, whatever you decide, make a choice and vote! Even if it's a write-in candidate!

Wassail! -j

In other words, don't stick your head in the sand and do nothing! Well put Tarathur.

 

[edgeofthorns]

Please note that I believe voting is very important and that is why I'm leaving this thread open until tomorrow. After that, it goes away like all non-music threads.

This has been a very, very civil, diverse, and intelligent discussion among ProgPower fans! I doubt that other forums could pull this off. Great job everyone! We Rock!

 

[Jibrille]

What's kind of sad is that the guy who won Comptroller in our area is probably going to be removed from office by the end of the month. He stole tax payers' money by having a state worker chauffer his wife around. The guy was making a nice chunk of money for doing that, too. I think almost 100k a year if not more. I voted for the republican guy in that race. He's been a big reason why the county I live in has the lowest taxes in the state.

 

[Harvester]

Thread closed.