say something about ... yourself!

[Dead Winter]

I thought it was understood that I wasn't talking about every single American in the US, and "the majority of Americans that I see" was implied. And actually to everyone but you it was understood as such. The fact that our country has taken a dive is because our society has taken a dive. I think it's understood by everyone that although you can't label every single person in the same manner, you can pretty much broad brush the society as a whole as the culprit since the proof is right there for everyone to see. We can't point the finger or shift the blame on this one. It's our fault.

You speak as if the ones who are exempt have any bearing on this issue whatsoever, that they actually make some sort of difference. They are beholden to the norms in our society just like everyone else; they don't have a choice in the matter. That's why the whole "you can't speak for everyone" argument is total bullshit. It's not about the individuals, it's about the people who make up the country. If you're living in America, whether American or not, you have to live in the manner Americans live today. This is based on American society, not Bob from down the street who's a really good guy. It's the way of living today that I have a problem with, not Americans themselves.

I don't even know what you mean by "expert on every single person's lifestyle", all I know is I want nothing to do with the modern American lifestyle because it's hollow, insipid, and materialistic. BEFORE YOU LOSE YOUR SHIT, *I AM NOT SAYING THAT ALL AMERICANS ARE HOLLOW, INSIPID, AND MATERIALISTIC*. All I'm saying is that ENOUGH Americans are hollow, insipid, and materialistic, and that has created a breeding ground for a hollow, insipid, and materialistic way of life. Thus, even the NON hollow, insipid, and materialistic Americans are beholden to this lifestyle because, like it or not, the majority has created it for them.

This is where my whole nature rant was going yesterday, and this is why I love the natural beauty and all the great, beautiful things about America, yet none of the human things and trappings that come with living there. I'm not saying I'm going all "Into the Wild" or anything, just that the way of life and the speed at which life travels in the US is something very unappealing to me, and it's brought on by a MORE MORE MORE, EVERYTHING IS A COMPETITION attitude shared by most of the citizens there.

 

[Shpongled]

but the sweeping generalizations are pointless. I don't like a lot of what I see over here either, but I don't presume to speak for an entire country.

You're fighting a losing battle there, my friend. I spent years telling DW the same shit before finally giving up all together. The bottom line is he can be an asshole with the way he frames his thoughts and opinions and you just gotta deal with it. It's how he is.

At least he's smart and knows what he talks about.

 

[Dead Winter]

Well, I know in the past I was a tool with the way I came off, and like I said before, that was just me pushing buttons. That's a shortcoming on my part, no doubt.

But am I really being an asshole now? Sure, what I'm saying may ruffle a few feathers, but am I wrong? Am I being an asshole or are people simply getting offended by me pointing these things out? I don't know how else I could speak about this issue without saying some rather blunt truths. I guess one has to ask himself if what I'm saying offends him or if it's just the way I'm saying it. If it's the way I'm saying it, how else should I get my point across? I ask this because my intent was definitely not to upset anyone, just give my views on the subject, and I really thought I explained myself clearly without resorting to any bad-mouthing.

Sure, it can be frustrating these days being an American and getting so much flack in the news, on the internet, on vacation, etc. because of the country's state of affairs today, but imagine being an American living abroad. I mean, no one has a problem with me being an American or anything, but when you're on the outside looking in for once, you see things in a whole different light. I have the benefit of knowing what's real and what's just perception on both sides, but there are certainly some things that should be addressed. I don't like going home to see family and friends and seeing nothing but strip malls and chain restaurants and people who have complete disregard for anything and anyone besides themselves. And it's not just one or two people here and there...you can't say it is. It's everywhere. I mean, I don't take any joy in these realizations; if anything it makes me sad. Somebody's gotta say SOMETHING about it because when you live a certain way for so long, bad things can become the norm and they have.

Sure I may be tiresome and long-winded and annoying with this shit, but I'm not gonna give up. If something's wrong, it's WRONG. You guys have no idea how much this shit plagues me day in, day out...it's on my mind constantly. I feel like I should be a politician or something. Maybe I have some unresolved issues stemming from severe bitterness at the realization of just how much of a farce our government and military is and their role in the world today. Maybe it's stemming from all the lies the president fed us and the world, and then turned us into his personal tools and completely ruined any honor or pride we had in what we were doing. Maybe it stems from not being able to honestly relate to anyone back home, not even my family or friends. Sure, I love them and all, but everything either goes right over their heads or THIS happens, and they end up thinking, "Wow, Chris just thinks he's better than us." This REALLY pisses me off, that they're so thick that they can't even ENTERTAIN what I'm saying, that they just hear, "you're talking shit about 'merca".

How can you have a dialogue when no one will admit anything is wrong?

 

[Shpongled]

But am I really being an asshole now?

Honestly I have no idea, I haven't even read most of what you've typed (not just in this thread but in the last year or so in general when it comes to this political and economical boring ass bullshit) because it's always so long-winded and difficult to get all the way through. I just saw backwards talker explain an annoyance that I previously had as well. You definitely have a certain type of scathing tone to your diatribes that tend to rub folks the wrong way. I think it's a bit sad that you blame it on them when they get angry at your abrasive deliveries. It's mainly the generalizing you tend to do, that will rile people up every time. That was always the thing that annoyed me most. Unfortunately it led to me giving up all together in trying to debate anything with you. Now I see a wall of text and don't even start reading it anymore.

That said, I like you and I think you're smart and knowledgeable and if you could find a more condensed way to properly convey your opinions without coming off like a holier than thou know-it-all, I would be more inclined to pay attention to you when it comes to serious topics like the stuff on the last page.

 

[DreamNeonBlack]

I like Nevermore

 

[Dead Winter]

Maybe I've got Asperger's or something haha. I don't think I'm smart enough or good enough at something to have Asperger's though, .

The scathing tone is definitely true, and to be honest that's how I really feel and it's not simply for effect. I rant like that in real life. I don't yell and scream or anything, but if you've ever seen Denis Leary get worked up over something, it's similar. When I'm really over-the-top, though, that's usually when it's for effect and especially when it's overly sarcastic.

I'm sure I could come across a little more soft and placating, but I feel that would diminish the point I'm trying to make. My old career was based on having really, really thick skin, what with controlling fighter jets and such. I had to deal with things like, "Where the FUCK were you on that one, Trailer? What the fuck happened? Get yer shit together or GTFO." It was never personal and I had to dish out as much as I received, and no one ever took anything personally because it was all to drive the point home of how important it was. I just don't think I can relate to more sensitive mindsets very well, or at least I have difficulty with it. In my mind, I hear someone telling me how to improve upon something; they're not just tearing me down for no reason. Others probably don't see it that way.

In person I'm usually a little more diplomatic, or at least I try to choose my words carefully...oftentimes when discussing something on the internet, intent is mistaken for trolling, but this is just a fact of life. However, it's always truth and honesty for me. I can't not be honest when I have something to say, and if what I have to say needs to have the point driven home crystal clear, I do it in the most direct way possible so as to avoid any confusion.

In any case, the generalizing may rub some people the wrong way, and I'm sure I do it sometimes when it isn't warranted, but it's nothing personal. In this case, it's not generalizing. There is nothing short of a high 6-figure income that would bring me back to live in the US, and it's most definitely not because living here is better. Ok, maybe it's more SUITABLE to my lifestyle, but it's not better. I spent 9 years in the military, joined right out of high school; it had been my lifelong dream to serve my country. I got out because it had gotten to the point where I couldn't put myself in harm's way for the type of people who make up the US today. Maybe that's a generalization, but that's the reason why I got out. Granted, I"m not singling out everyone, but again, American society in 2005 had gotten me so disgusted that I didn't even want to return to my own country...and it has just gotten worse ever since. It sounds harsh because it is harsh.

This, I'm sure, may sound a bit insulting, and know that it is not my intent to insult anyone, but that's the fact of the matter. I had seen America from both the inside and the outside and what I saw made me sick. You don't just walk away from a career you had based your entire life upon, then decide to not even return to your home, eschewing your entire family, your friends, your home country without something being seriously wrong. And there is something seriously wrong.

I base my opinions on factual evidence and personal experience, nothing more. If I have never had any experience with something or someone, I have no opinion on the matter and I will tell you as such. So when I get all riled up and vehement over something, it's due to personal experience and/or factual evidence. I'm not going to sugar-coat it, but I'll be as diplomatic as possible. If someone brings something up and asks me to comment on it, I'm going to comment on it if I have a valid opinion based on facts and experience...for them to be insulted by my point of view is completely their problem...and to be honest, it's a bit thin-skinned and childish.

So, if I'm simply generalizing that the state of modern American society as a whole is failing, and that it's the fault of we Americans ourselves, I'll be happy to debate points to the contrary. Politics, social issues, economics, education, health care, quality of life, all these things are what I base my statements on. I am/was affected by every single one of them. Americans had better wake up, because the stereotype is quickly becoming the truth.

The rest of the world thinks we're a bunch of uneducated, obese, willfully ignorant and overrated dicks, and normally we would just give everyone the finger for it, but we really can't anymore because we're proving them right. I'm not angry because of what they say; I'm angry because they may be right.

 

[neal]

Honestly I have no idea, I haven't even read most of what you've typed (not just in this thread but in the last year or so in general when it comes to this political and economical boring ass bullshit) because it's always so long-winded and difficult to get all the way through. I just saw backwards talker explain an annoyance that I previously had as well. You definitely have a certain type of scathing tone to your diatribes that tend to rub folks the wrong way. I think it's a bit sad that you blame it on them when they get angry at your abrasive deliveries. It's mainly the generalizing you tend to do, that will rile people up every time. That was always the thing that annoyed me most. Unfortunately it led to me giving up all together in trying to debate anything with you. Now I see a wall of text and don't even start reading it anymore.

yep, the know-it-all generalizations (followed closely by the "well when i say everyone i dont MEAN everyone" defense) were always fun but ultimately for me it was the absolute refusal to accept that anyone could understand his point and still disagree that made me quit. fun, frustrating, and ultimately pointless debates. ahh the good ole days.

 

[Dead Winter]

Yep. I miss 'em. I was full of piss and vinegar, determined to make you see my side of it. I'm still like that, but I try to be a bit more tactful. Try.

It didn't help that you were a complete asshole, but that made it all the more fun. My stubborn, "YOU *WILL* CONFORM TO ME!!!!" combined with you and others just being total dicks made for hilarious flames.

 

[El Stormo]

Now, now, kids, let's all just take a look at this

 

[Dead Winter]

'ceen it. Ya got any more?

 

[Shpongled]

This is why this forum is dead. No serious discussion can exist without someone complaining or trying to change the subject.

Goddamn I never thought the day would arrive that I say I think RC is more entertaining than this forum. Sad

 

[Dead Winter]

What's RC?

 

[Shpongled]

RC

 

[Traxan]

Now, now, kids, let's all just take a look at this

<takei>Oh, my!</takei>

 

[Dead Winter]

RC

Is this a band, festival, what?

 

[Shpongled]

It's just a metal forum.

 

[Dead Winter]

Ah ok.

 

[DreamNeonBlack]

Royal Crown cola?

 

[El Stormo]

'ceen it. Ya got any more?

Yes.

Blame photobucket for the resize.

 

[Dead Winter]

Amazing.