Should Nevermore Get A Bit More Political In Light Of Recent Situations?

[Unregistered]

U.S-U.K.-Israel alliance are the biggest neo-imperialist war mongers in this world today ; besides the fact that the U.S. condones Palestinian genocide ;
besides the fact that Sharon is a racist WAR CRIMINAL ultimately repsonsible for refugee camp massacres in 1982 in southern lebanon ;
besides the fact that this facist corporate failure; good ol; GWs oil agenda to build an oil route to the Caspian through Afghanistan eventually ;
besides the fact that the U.S. consistent exploitation of third world countries in the middle east and latin america through various means ;
besides the fact the CIA actually funded Saddam into power in the first place for an oil agenda ;
besides the fact the Bin Laden family and the Bush family go way back (saudi arabia)
BESIDES THE FACT THAT YES, this war on terrorism has to do with trillions of dollars worth of laundered drug money (the Taliban-controlled Opium fields in Afghanistan- can anyone say Regan-era contras trafficking drugs from south america with guns ?)
I could go on forever ;
the point is many people need to wake up as to whats happening in the world, and that this is only the beginning,
eventually, this will lead to POLICE STATE and neo-Mcarthyism to anyone who opposes the U.S. machine.

I know Warrel has some opinions on all of this, given his anti-establishment views..

 

[romolus]

it's all intertwined. the good and the bad in the world, just like us getting blown up affected legit businesses internationally. conflict has been the basis of the human experience since the beginning of people, then civilization organized the conflict. i think it would be cool to hear what someone like warrel dane thinks about it. but, only as long as it involoves strapping a bomb to jesse jackson and sending him to meet the taliban
it just occurred to me that given the immense population of NYC, it is quite conceivable that someone, somewhere there, witnessed the attack after a nice dose. of vitamin A. i wonder what kind of shit that did to their mind.

 

[Sydo]

I would hate to see any band use their fame to make direct political statements.

 

[Unregistered]

Want to read an interesting book?

Chalmers Johnson - Blowback: The Costs Of The American Empire (Metropolitan, New York)

Read and see the world with different eyes...

A.

 

[enitharmon]

First of all who are you (that is register please) and secondly I would be interested in where you come from (your opinion has another meaning if you come from Cuba or China or if you are American)
All you say is nothing new. I don’t really have the time to make a comment on all of this, but you are not in all of them wrong. The question is what do you want to do? There are pros and cons in USA being world police, every society needs his officer. If it weren’t for the imperialism, the world power Nr.1 at the moment might have been the USSR and half of the world would be now communists (and believe me if I should have to choose between an imperialistic system and a communistic system, be damn sure I would choose the first).

I agree with Sydo, Nevermore should not take advantage of their fame and start making political statements. Warrel will do it the one way or the other through his lyrics, but still indirect.

What I find more interesting is that all the thinks that have been foreseen are now taking place. It becomes more easy for the governments to come through with their plans. USA wanted to set the “Star Wars” project and people were against it; it might now become easier to set it through (though it offers no protection from the kind of terrorism we are facing now, it is just that now the government has the support of the people). The oil in Alaska is another example. Most people were against the search for oil in Alaska, because this would disturb and/or destroy a great percent of the national park there. If the American government wants to go forth with this plan now, they will find weaker resistance. The people are now more willing to offer a national park, than still become oil from their enemies. And what George Orwell in his “1984” says, becomes also true.

 

[true light]

can do anything...

as long as Its got a good message, for positive things thats cool..


BUT I HATE TIMOTHY LEARY HE IS A DICKHEAD.

 

[[KOTNO]Narrot]

i see many political statements in nevermore lyrics...bvut they are all indirect!

except that wacken statement "we fuck washington" of course

 

[jimbobhickville]

A bit of a conspiracy theorist, are we? I think there are definitely shady and bad things that our government does, but I don't pretend to specify what they are (since I have no knowledge of them). I also think that people in other countries believe a lot of anti-US propaganda that is completely false (as do some Americans). While me may "exploit" the Middle East for oil, the Middle East would be damn impoverished if it weren't for us buying all that oil. Sure, other countries would still buy oil from them, but not in nearly the quantity that we do. As for those that claim America has the highest disparity between classes (mentioned in another thread), that is completely untrue. Even our poor would be considered wealthy in any 3rd world country. We have the highest percentage of Middle Class of any country in the world. While we do have a lot of extremely rich people, the majority of Americans are merely comfortable. On top of that, without us, the global economy would be in ruins. We've donated countless billions to other countries in financial hardship. We wiped out the debt record for Japan, among others. We have fought oppression and tyranny (maybe not in all places, but in plenty). So, remember when you bash America, that you bash the global economy and your own freedom. If we weren't around, Germany would've won WW2, and you'd all be living in a police state.

Yes, we protect our own interests, but we also protect yours. People here aren't as complacent as you think. The recent anti-terrorism bill had tons of stuff removed that was limiting to our freedom. I do agree we police too much, but consider the alternative. Even with its faults, America is still pretty damn great.

 

[[KOTNO]Narrot]

well...i don't like the americans (which is pretty stupid to say because there are about 250 million different guys that amke "the americans") in general. better to say i don't like some of them that think that they represent the majority of the us-americans (bush and so on...)

one thing that really pissed me off (and plz get it right i don'T accuse ANYONE HERE IN THE FORUM) was that an american journalist said that "we germany" (another of this too general things) are not allowed to disagree to the US because we wouldn'T be able to say our opinion if the US hadn't freed us from the NS-regime. WTF???


you say: Yes, we protect our own interests, but we also protect yours.
well...you only protect our interest if it are yours...thaT's no normal...no one does anything for free...i call that opportunism and thatS' imo one of the great things that allow human living together.



I DON'T HAVE SOMETHING AGAINST ALL US PPL i only have something against CERTAIN US-AMERICANS AS I HATE SOME CERTAIN GERMANS OR WHATEVER...i just see that there are more ppl from the us i hate than from other countries....

 

[LSDphilosophy]

True Light- hahahahaa you know I am going to post about that phrase... In what way is Leary a dickhead... hahahahha, just curious

 

[enitharmon]

Originally posted by [KOTNO]Narrot


I DON'T HAVE SOMETHING AGAINST ALL US PPL i only have something against CERTAIN US-AMERICANS AS I HATE SOME CERTAIN GERMANS OR WHATEVER...i just see that there are more ppl from the us i hate than from other countries....

How many do you know from other countries? How many Chinese and how many Arabs?

 

[enitharmon]

Originally posted by jimbobhickville
On top of that, without us, the global economy would be in ruins. We've donated countless billions to other countries in financial hardship. We wiped out the debt record for Japan, among others. We have fought oppression and tyranny (maybe not in all places, but in plenty). So, remember when you bash America, that you bash the global economy and your own freedom. If we weren't around, Germany would've won WW2, and you'd all be living in a police state.

No man, the global economy wouldn't be ruins, it would just be different. You might be the richest country in the world, but there are six more countries that ain't bad either. If there were no USA the rest of the world would just follow their standards. If we had no internet the world would be no ruins too. Six-seven years ago were we just fine.

Yeah, you have donated, but for those billions you got paid in other ways.Noone does anything without profit.
You fought oppression and tyranny in the countries that were interesting for you. Why hadn't you done anything for the Afghans before? They were the misery and humiliation of human rights in person, but you have waited until now.

And don't try to tell me that the Americans won the WW2 by themselves. You were most occupied with the Japanese. The French had killed many German officers and anything of the Stalingrad fight heard? It was a massacre for the Germans and that in Russia. And so on and so forth. You didn't win the war alone. And even if it weren't for you and the Germans had won, they wouldn't be keeping 50 years long.

Don't be such an arrogant asshole, I know you can do better than that.

 

[jimbobhickville]

Narrot, my comments weren't directed at you, they were directed at the author of the thread.

And now some more:
America has done some awful things, I admit to that. But I think the good we have done for the world far outweighs the bad. If you look at history, we were very isolationist until WWI. We weren't even involved for the first 3 years, and only became so after having our help requested. After that, we became a major player in the world scene. We were reluctant to get involved in WWII, but saw that we were needed again and helped out. In Vietnam, we were helping the French out of a jam (which was a fiasco, IMO). Korea was probably just an anti-communist thing, as was our helping the Afghanis. Desert Storm was a result of Kuwait and Saudi Arabia asking us to help defend against the oppressive Iraq. So, if you think about it, most of the things we get ridiculed for were us coming to the aid of other nations. Sure, many of them were beneficial to us, but many others weren't. We weren't the biggest military, political, and cultural influence in the world until we were forced to be so.

So, I'm sorry that y'all hate America and Americans. I'm sorry that the Europeans forced us to come out of our isolationist stand and become involved in the world. I'm sorry we were the primary factor in stopping Germany from conquering Europe (and possibly more), twice. I'm sorry we have helped out countless billions with aid and military support. I'm sorry our government has made mistakes and will probably continue to do so. I'm sorry we fight for freedom and prosperity. I'm sorry that you have freedom because of us. And most of all I'm sorry that you have a computer that we invented.

I think I've vented now. Continue the America bashing if you so desire, but consider this: don't you hate America because you are jealous of our prosperity? I'm serious; I think this is the root cause for most America bashing. Every anti-America thing I read is basically saying: "I hate America because they are rich." The government corruption and world influence reasons are just a cover; most governments are involved in world affairs and all have corruption and do evil things from time to time. Also consider this: if America is so awful, why do so many people risk their lives for a chance to live here?

Now I'm really done.

 

[Captain Beard]

Originally posted by [KOTNO]Narrot
well...i don't like the americans (which is pretty stupid to say because there are about 250 million different guys that amke "the americans") in general. better to say i don't like some of them that think that they represent the majority of the us-americans (bush and so on...)

Do you like MEEEEE Narrot?

 

[enitharmon]

Oh no, not again!
I wrote my opinion on this in September answering to Faith, sorry that you didn't read them, but I cannot write the same again.(you can search if you want it was end of September and my opinion was pro.American)
Anyway I don't hate the Americans, and yes I will come to the USA for my PhD, and yes I know how great you are (but no I am not jealous of your country, my country will just do fine for my children).

But you still didn't answer me, why we have our freedom because of you? And why are you talking about the WW2 and why do you still think that you won the war alone? And if you are so great, then why have you asked for the help of the other NATO members?
And yeah Edison was American, but the Japanese are doing a graet job with the Computers too.

I told you don't be so arrogant and give me answers if you wish to continue to talk like that!

 

[enitharmon]

Originally posted by NoLordy Capone


Do you like MEEEEE Narrot?

Everyone likes you my Lord!

 

[jimbobhickville]

Sorry, I was posting at the same time and hadn't read your comments first. I'm not saying we won WWII or WWI, but Germany would have won if we weren't involved. The Allies were losing WWI until we sent in tons of troops, although they weren't properly trained, the sheer number helped turn the tide. WWII, we not only fought off Japan, we invaded Normandy and Italy. Good point about Stalingrad; Hitler's arrogance was also a major factor. I recognize it was a group effort to win, but had we not contributed as much as we did, it would've most likely failed. That is all I meant.

The Japanese do really well with electronics, but not home computers. The PC and Mac were both invented here; the processors used by Japanese electronics companies were invented here. Maybe they would have done it if we hadn't, who knows. I think I went a little overboard on my last post

Sorry about the jealousy thing; I was overly pissed (it had been building for a while after reading lots of anti-America stuff on different sites). I know that not everyone is jealous of our country, but I know a lot of people are. Having only lived in the US and Canada, I don't really have a strong point of referece, but I know lots of people who have lived in several other countries around the world (including countries in Europe, South America, and Asia), and all concur they'd rather live here. My point wasn't to belittle other countries, which it could've easily been construed as, but to say that America is a great place, regardless of its problems.

Are you referring to something specific with NATO or just in general? NATO has asked the US to do a lot of stuff, and we've done it willingly, so us asking for some help isn't out of line.

Sorry for the tone on my previous posts; I wasn't attacking you specifically. I try not to flame people in forums; I'm just sick of the anti-America propaganda I see all over the web. I'm not one of these "America can do no wrong" people; I just think we've done more good than harm.

 

[romolus]

i'm with your last post. i'm sick of people bitching about america too. we just need to find a way to better allocate resources around the world and not consume such a larger proportion of them. cuz let's face it, it all comes down to the same fundamental material struggle, a couple cro-mags fighting over a scrap of meat around a bone-laden firepit.
they got money in europe too, they don't give a shit about our wealth. i don't know why i say "our" either cuz i'd sure as hell like to see some of this "wealth" myself.

 

[romolus]

you wanna hear bitching about america, hear it from a fucking american right now.
"normal" american middle class behavior(consumption levels/consumption choices/toxicity levels and exposure/stress)totally contradicts what a fucking doctor would tell you to do.
i don't know how if it's like that in europe already, but when i look around the city here, i see many people who are victims by submission to this toxic lifestyle which is made much more convienant in our society to access. for example: why don't any healthy fast food places have drive-tru? and why the fuck do we have to DRIVE there anyway? that is but one part of a worthless sedintary lifestyle that alot of people are conditioned from childhood into accepting as "normal".
i could go this one for 4ever.

 

[LSDphilosophy]

we should just forget about those imaginary lines and exist