Should Nevermore Get A Bit More Political In Light Of Recent Situations?

America isn't as great as it claims to be...
We have our own internal terrorists (Mainly (hmm...) CHRISTIANS!) who persecute and hurt the rest of us... We should work on ourselves before we go bossing everyone else around.
 
i agree with jimbob and think that we don't in essence "boss people around". we do what we have to do to maintain an unessesarily high level of resources like fuel. that doesn't hurt the middle east, it sustains them.
give me some examples of how we boss people around.
 
WoW! i even didn't remember that i wrote that! strange... :)...but i the most be i have to agree with myself (LÖL)...i like you NoLordy! as i didn'T see one of the statements that make me soemtimes angry about certain US-citizens. unfortunately i don't remember the auther but there'S a nice book called "war against people" (i hope it'S the right name) which "proofs" that the US are a scoundrel-state! it'S pretty interesting to read (i didn't say that i agree to the book.

in some points i feel thankful to the US (especially the WWI and WWII thing and the marshall-plan) which majorly allowed the wealth of germany today. but soemtimes i have the feeling that soem americans think that thankfullness means not criticizing...

Sometimes i wonder how i would think about it when i was born in the US...but i'll never know...
just some points that are really strange in my eyes:

1. the justive system in the US (well i don'T know it exactly so i shouldn't speak about normally) which allows 10 million $ damage-compensation for some hot coffe on your legs...
you say that i shouldn'T care about these things because they happen in the ÙS...the americans tend to judge with their rules over others (as everyone tends to). but the US are mighty and their might brings them in the possibility to force other to use their rules.
2. death penalty...how can a constitutional state accept death penalty??

i better stop that no one here thinks i am anti-american. i could also bitch about germany about my family or myself...but the america-thing is imo of public interest...
 
I can see your point about our justice system being screwed up. Frivolous lawsuits are sometimes won, but I think that the majority of the time it works quite well. Movies and media always exaggerate the situation, but money can buy your freedom sometimes. As for the death penalty, it isn't used that often, and I personally agree with it, but I don't really want to start a debate on that subject. Of course there are lots of ways we could improve. I don't agree with us trying to force our copyright and patent laws on other countries. There really should be an international organization to handle that stuff, and it should be made up of people who have a clue. I think we interfere too much sometimes in other countries' affairs, but I think that people too often confuse our involvement as anything more than a response to a request for aid. I would never think that we aren't open to criticism, I just get sick of hearing all of the criticism from people in countries that aren't any better, and many times aren't nearly as good (I am not referring to anyone specifically, so don't read it that way).

Now that I'm calm, I'd like to answer a few items, specifically, that are complained about:
1. Environment - we are on of the most evironmentally-friendly countries. Despite claims to the contrary, our air, water, and land are much cleaner than it was 10, 20, or 30 years ago, and is cleaner than most, if not all, other countries. We have had problems in the past, but we are working to correct them and have made significant progress. Go to any third-world country and look at what they are doing. That is atrocious.
2. Oil mining in Alaska - from what I've read and heard, the oil mining that W wants to do in Alaska will have little to no impact on the land. The Alaskans want us to do it, for crying out loud. Most people complain about this one out of ignorance, expecting that we are gonna kill all life in Alaska to do it. Oil mining has been refined considerably and can be done without destroying the habitat.
3. Overconsumption - this one is true. We do consume too much. I'm not a model example of conservation, but I do better than most.
4. Protecting our interests overseas - this one is also true, but name any other country that doesn't protect its own interests. Name one other country that gets involved in things that don't affect it directly or indirectly. Maybe there are some, but I don't know of any. Also, despite the fact that they are our interests, they are often very beneficial to the world as a whole.

All of my opinions are, of course, based upon my limited knowledge, but I don't subscribe to all the conspiracy theories proposed in the beginning of this thread. Wild speculation with little or no evidence just isn't my bag. Thanks, all, for bearing with my rants. I was overzealous in many of them, so again I apologize.

Edit: I fixed a couple type-o's.
 
4. Protecting our interests overseas - this one is also true, but name any other country that doesn't protect its own interests. Name one other country that gets involved in things that don't affect it directly or indirectly. Maybe there are some, but I don't know of any. Also, despite the fact that they are our interests, they are often very beneficial to the world as a whole.


didn'T you talk to me or didn'T you read what i wrote some posts ago:

"you say: Yes, we protect our own interests, but we also protect yours.
well...you only protect our interest if it are yours...thaT's no normal...no one does anything for free...i call that opportunism and thatS' imo one of the great things that allow human living together. "


i think a problem is that i only attack some certain US-guys and certain behaviours of the us-administration and you feel attacked because you are american

about the Environment issue: here in germany they tell us that germany leads the Environment-friendliness-scale....don'T know if that's propaganda...
 
At first, I did feel kind of attacked, as an American, but I've since calmed down. Germany may have a better environmental situation, but most countries outside of Europe are far worse. Places like Brazil and the Phillippines have sewage running through the streets, bury toxic waste wherever, don't enforce any environmental regulations, etc (these examples are coming from people I know who have lived in those countries, and probably are only representative of parts of said countries, not all).

Narrot, I wasn't sure whether you were disagreeing or agreeing with me in your post. It sounded like both; I know english isn't your first language, so I probably missed your meaning. Plus, that post wasn't directly in response to your post, it was in response to a general opinion which I've read lots of places.

I admit I overreacted; I hold no malice towards the posters on this board. It is an interesting debate, which I, in my misplaced anger, turned into a flame-fest.

I do feel, however, that we are damned if we do and damned if we don't. We get involved in Bosnia, and we are ridiculed for overstepping our bounds. We don't get involved in Rwanda, and we are ridiculed for allowing human rights to be violated.

I agree with us fighting Bin Laden and terrorists, but not Afghanistan (which we aren't, even though some purport it to be so). Maybe it'll turn into a west vs. Islam as Bin Laden wants, but I think he overestimates his power. If it did, it would just lead to another internment like the Japanese in WWII (which I think was horrible, btw). It would definitely be a bloody war.

As for the outrage in response to civilian casualties (not really mentioned here, but in the news), it is understandable. Innocents should never be killed. But, in historical perspective, we're doing an amazing job of limiting civilian casualties. How many civilians were killed in the World Wars, or any other war for that matter? I'm not saying that it isn't a big deal; I'm just saying that we could have done much worse. At least we're trying to feed them, something the Taliban refuses to use it billions of dollars in drug money to do. I'm not one of the "nuke 'em until there's nothing left", but I don't think we should just ignore the problem, either.

Thanks for all the interesting perspectives, sorry for babbling on so much, especially in my earlier rants.
 
Originally posted by [KOTNO]Narrot
2. death penalty...how can a constitutional state accept death penalty??


It is the UNITED States of America, that means they are different "lands" united under one President. Death penalty exists not in every of these "lands", but mostly in the southern ones. Now try to explain the Rednexes that they shouldn't kill the bastard that took the life of two other of their fellas. He is going to be punished in the name of our Lord of course! (No not in your name NoLordy, we are talking about another deity)
 
i personally that that the design of population centers in america and other developed countries, should be completely destroyed and rebuilt differently, namely to be devoid of cars. imagine city with no streets or stoplights but vegetation laden sidewalks and pathways for pedestrians and bicycles. a system of underground bicycle tunnels and covered or underground walkways. no car noise, no fumes, no honking, no streetlights, no road rage, no parking lots.
people could live within a mile or so of where they work and do business. think about it, the main reason people want to live way out in the suburbs
is to be away from all the clutter and pollution in city caused by cars! so they need a CAR to commute in and out of the city where they work!
a city without cars would be a fresh aired, peaceful, tree laden fucking utopia. it would just be too difficult to change it all because everybody's life would have to change, but it would ultimately be 4 the best.
 
jimbobhickville: you didn'T get my point...lol...hehe i neither agreed to you nor did i disagree you. because this topic is too complex to discuss it in 10 sentences. i said something like: partly right, partly wrong.

[the same happened to trapped in another thread....i think ppl always eyxpect clear statements...]
 
if someone raped your mother or sister would you not want them dead? i would, but only after a fair trial that proved their guilt, and only under those circumstances. but rapists, murderers, and terrorists who are proven guilty, should pay. and if you don't agree with that, you have no conception of justice.
 
Just wanted to say something on the `everyone hates America` foofaraw. Speaking as a Scot/Brit, we were utterly shocked and appalled by 9/11; I know many of my friends who couldn`t focus on their lives and work for days afterwards, so when our Prime Minister reached to you so quickly just about everyone would have agreed with what he had to say.

Now that the `police action` (it ain`t a war, face it) has begun, doubts have crept up over here - not about going after Bin Laden and his crew (personally I want to see them hunted down like dogs), but the fact that its the US Airforce doing the same dumb bombing routine we`ve seen before. The trouble with it (shit, let me think, as well as hitting the Red Cross building twice) is that it makes us look thuggish and evil.

People don`t hate America or Americans - its your government, and all the politico-corporate elites around it, which arouses such distrust. Most people with any sense know the difference between the two; the question is whether the American people will have the will to rip out the anti-democratic influences in American politics.

Honest, we luv yuz - if we didn`t, would we get so angsty about it?

And yeah, I agree that the band should keep away from obvioius references.
 
if someone raped your mother or sister would you not want them dead? i would, but only after a fair trial that proved their guilt, and only under those circumstances. but rapists, murderers, and terrorists who are proven guilty, should pay.

eye for an eye...a law that's several thousand years old :/ ...IMO that'S pretty poor.