Slate Samples/Phase....just wow

Lasse Lammert

Lasse Lammert

HCAF Blitzkrieg
Feb 12, 2009
8,409
40
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www.lasselammert.com
dude's you won't believe how fucked up this is, I still have problems believing it...
Well, as some of you know I have trouble on my system with Trigger cause it's not phase consistent at all...neither with slate samples, nor with "outside" samples.
reading the Slate forums it seems that more people are having the same problem (all of them on PT and OSX btw)...
Answer of the support is "it works on my windows machine in Cubase, algorithm is the same in all DAW, so it has to work in PT, too" (not an accurate quote but true to the content).
and apparently it's all because of wrong settings (which is bullshit, I tried triggering from spikes all strip silenced and nortmalized to the same peak level...same result, Trigger is not phase accurate on Mac/PT)....
funny coincident that apparently only PT/Mac users are too stupid to set up a plugin to work correctly.

Anyways....this annoying fact made me have a closer look at the samples (and this is why I actually started this thread)...I just grabbed all the samples from a random kick and dragged them into PT...have a look:

effinslate.png



who does the editing/slicing for Slate, a blind person with parkinson?
I mean...I can understand that not everyone is as anal as I am when it comes to slicing samples (I'm always using 1 smpl grid mode and am cuting EXACTLY at the beginning, not a sample early or late)...but this is some milliseconds (like 10ms and more!)...this is supposed to be a professional product, how can this happen?
I don't think I'm being too anal, this is really fucked up IMO.


To Slate: Sorry mate, not trying to bash you, but you have to admit that this is by far not accurate enough.
 
haha, yikes. Not cool. Looks like that first one is pretty much 100% out of phase with most of them. granted you probably won't here them together, but if you made all the samples phase consistent with a sample from a different drum, that one one hit would probably have gross cancellations.
 
there are not two samples that are perfectly in phase with each other.
Hard3 and Hard4 are very close (still a bunch of samples off), but the rest is off by at least 1ms.
and not a single sample is cut at the very beginning, they all have some empty space before the hit actually starts
unacceptable!
 
Few things.
- All wavs were re-edited before converting into TRIGGER's new TCI format. So really your screenshot has no relevance to TRIGGER.
- If you print TRIGGER samples and compare with original, and measure phase, you'll find the meat of the transient is perfectly in phase

Why don't you POST a track of drums, right here, in this thread, and I'll use PT on a Mac with TRIGGER and post the results, and screenshots..

Also Lasse, can you PM me your system specs, and the version of TRIGGER you are using?

Just an FYI, the Computer Music Reviewer and the Sound on Sound reviewer who gave TRIGGER blazingly good reviews calling it "the gold standard" and "the most accurate drum replacer on the market" both had PT on a Mac.

We're talking about HD here right? And your latency compensation is on?
 
Slate said:
Few things.
- All wavs were re-edited before converting into TRIGGER's new TCI format. So really your screenshot has no relevance to TRIGGER.
- If you print TRIGGER samples and compare with original, and measure phase, you'll find the meat of the transient is perfectly in phase

Why don't you POST a track of drums, right here, in this thread, and I'll use PT on a Mac with TRIGGER and post the results, and screenshots..
Click to expand...

first of all, thanks for replying quickly, and sorry if I came off to rude, but this just angered me.
If you say the editing has been corrected for Trigger I believe that, that's cool.
still were the samples a product that I bought to use with other replacement plugins, I paid for it and got samples edited like these, that's what make me angry, that's all (not complaining about the sounds, as I said I'm loving your samples and I think all your products have heaps of potential).

I have used more than one plugin in my life, so if this is really a case of "too stupid to adjust the settings so the plugin works like it's supposed to" then I guess Trigger is just beyond my cognitive abilities.
Fact is on MY system it's not phase accurate, I believe you when you say it is on yours, I know it works great for 99% of the people here...not for me.
and apparently some other PT users on Macs have the same problem.
I can't tell you if there's actually something wrong with the plugin's algo or if I'm just not smart enough to use it properly, the result is the same...it doesn't work on my system.

Yep, PTHD with ADC on. if it's off it's the same problem, just that all the samples are late of course


EDIT: haha, just wanted to print a track from trigger using the same sample (kick9)...turns out kick9 isn't in there as a TCI....

EDIT2: I'm always and exlusively triggering from cleaned triggertracks, so there's nothing but the initial spike left on the trigger track, so mis-triggering etc is impossible. I can see that from a noisy mic track it might sometimes be difficult to adjust the settings so it triggers accurately. but I'm not doing that, I'm really using nothing but the very transient with zero bleed etc in between. Tbh I doubt that it's just me being too stupid to adjust the settings in a scenario like that.
I understand your point, it's difficult to help me if I don't supply the tracks...
MY point is A it's not the tracks, but apparently how the plugin works on my system and more important B: I bought a plugin that's supposed to work, I don't wanna have to send tracks, take screenshots, wait for updates, send more tracks again etc just to get a working plugin....if someone wants me to help devolop something I'm usually getting paid for that, in this case I paid for a product and now it's us users who have to be the beta-testers so that eventually the product works like it's supposed to in the first place.


thanks for your help though, really not trying to come off as an asshole here (although I understand that my initial post probably sounded a bit annoyed)
 
Jarkko, you've used it with zero problems, and I've already expained that the screenshot is irrellevant because TRIGGER tci samples were re-edited. So fear not young lad.

Lasse, kick 9 is the chili kick, its been that way for three years.

Lasse, can you post a track that you had problems with? We've had zero complaints about accuracy, I've actually just browsed through the last five hundred support requests and none discuss accuracy issues. Its quite the opposite, everyone is amazed at how accurate TRIGGER is. I want to help you, so all i can ask is if you post a track that gave you problems (or PM me). For all we know your ADC in PT is not working right, which I've actually experienced. If you change buffer size you'll need to reinitiate the plugin as well.
 
Slate said:
Jarkko, you've used it with zero problems, and I've already expained that the screenshot is irrellevant because TRIGGER tci samples were re-edited. So fear not young lad.
Click to expand...

I know, thus I'm not complaining! ;) It's just that this is the first time I actually see what all the fuss has been about, so I was kinda surprised.

Don't worry, I'm still a happy owner of SSD EX 3.5 and Trigger Platinum, and I'm not going back to ApTrigga in a million years :)
 
Slate said:
Lasse, kick 9 is the chili kick, its been that way for three years.
.
Click to expand...

good to know, thanks for the info

Slate said:
I've actually just browsed through the last five hundred support requests and none discuss accuracy issues.
Click to expand...

http://www.slatedigital.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=23

http://www.slatedigital.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=21
(that's me, but another guy is posting further down in that thread)

that's just from the first page of your forum...
in the thread on this board others have been complaining about the same thing (also PT Users)...gonna search that later...pizza now ;)

cheers

EDIT: here's another thread about that issue for example:

http://www.ultimatemetal.com/forum/equipment/609040-gotta-say-little-disappointed-trigger.html

and here:

http://www.ultimatemetal.com/forum/...um-replacer-now-available-26.html#post9163540


and that's without much searching, I've read about this problem on other forums as well...apparently always PT and Mac though
 
AdamWathan said:
I bought SSD Platinum about 2 years ago and ChiliKick is Kick13 here, Kick9 has it's own folder...

chilikick.png


kick9.png
Click to expand...

yep, the labelling is a bit confusing, I loved for example snare18 from v2 (or 1.5?), took me some time to find out that the very same snare is now called 22 (or was it 21?).
but I've got all that sorted now, as long as future updates won't shuffle the naming again I'll be fine ;)
 
Doesn't help but on CS4 and OSX Trigger is working like a charm for me.
 
Sorta OT, but I'm curious: if the samples were re-cut for Trigger, what about the ones used in the Kontakt player? I got Platinum back in November and now wonder if there's possible phase issues if using two snares or two kicks at the same time.
 
You will hear if there are phase issues, if you haven't noticed then I'd bet everything is ok ;)
 
AdamWathan said:
I bought SSD Platinum about 2 years ago and ChiliKick is Kick13 here, Kick9 has it's own folder...

chilikick.png


kick9.png
Click to expand...

Seems like even Slate himself can't keep track of the naming...

By the way, if you guys ever get the Trigger wavs out to those of us who have requested it like promised, then those of us who use SSD could just go and replace the wavs with the re-cut Trigger versions...
 
^^^ This may actually explain the difficulty my friend has had with phase issues on his system with slate stuff. Oh I have to check it out now *facepalm*
 
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