So america is gonna get bombed
- Thread starter NapalmForLunch
- Start date
sh0kr0k
Active Member
@thrashmetal - 
I completely agree with everything you said in that post! I'm backing you up because there is no way I could have put it into better words than you did! I'm tired of Anti-American sentiments, tired of people saying it's a war for oil, and tired of those tree-hugging hippies that think their opinion matters in the grand scheme of things (like those "human shield" people - as far as I'm concerned once they've gone over there and started interefering in this whole situation, they've basically given up their American citizenship and I no longer give a shit about loosing them)
*deep breath*
I need to stop right now or I'll launch into a big schpeel that mirrors your's
~Sh0k~
I completely agree with everything you said in that post! I'm backing you up because there is no way I could have put it into better words than you did! I'm tired of Anti-American sentiments, tired of people saying it's a war for oil, and tired of those tree-hugging hippies that think their opinion matters in the grand scheme of things (like those "human shield" people - as far as I'm concerned once they've gone over there and started interefering in this whole situation, they've basically given up their American citizenship and I no longer give a shit about loosing them) *deep breath*
I need to stop right now or I'll launch into a big schpeel that mirrors your's
~Sh0k~
xenophobe
Active Member
@Thrashmetal!
I'm tired of all the anti-American BS too.
If we act as the world's police, we're evil, and we're doing it for our own self-interest and it's detrimental to the world. If we pull out of the Yugoslavian states, civil war will erupt, if we pull out of S Korea, the North will invade, if we stop supporting Isreal, they'll be attacked until the last resort would be Isreal using their nuclear arsenal.... it goes on and on, then America, in the eyes of the world, would be evil for letting all this happen.
Personally, we should close the borders, FUCK "Free Trade" and let the world fend for itself WITHOUT American involvement, military support or financial aide for a few decades, but then we would be deemed uncaring and evil for that too.
I'm tired of all the anti-American BS too.
If we act as the world's police, we're evil, and we're doing it for our own self-interest and it's detrimental to the world. If we pull out of the Yugoslavian states, civil war will erupt, if we pull out of S Korea, the North will invade, if we stop supporting Isreal, they'll be attacked until the last resort would be Isreal using their nuclear arsenal.... it goes on and on, then America, in the eyes of the world, would be evil for letting all this happen.
Personally, we should close the borders, FUCK "Free Trade" and let the world fend for itself WITHOUT American involvement, military support or financial aide for a few decades, but then we would be deemed uncaring and evil for that too.
Jax
Forum Goddess
Why should the US start a war to get rid of Saddam anyway, Saddam is no longer a treath against the US or any other country for that sake...
Bush is no less a madman than Saddam himself, wanting to sacrifice hundreds maybe thousands of troops just to finish something his father couldnt do...
If Saddam as the US says do have biological and chemical weapons, wouldnt he use them against the US troops in an invasion of his own country?
This is an idiotic and pointless conflict started by a madman in Washington DC.
Bush is no less a madman than Saddam himself, wanting to sacrifice hundreds maybe thousands of troops just to finish something his father couldnt do...
If Saddam as the US says do have biological and chemical weapons, wouldnt he use them against the US troops in an invasion of his own country?
This is an idiotic and pointless conflict started by a madman in Washington DC.
Wandrail
I'm your Huckleberry
FIrst off i've been away for awhile - and back just in time, no doubt. This is going ot be a mite long, I'm sorry, won't happen again . Xeno, Thrashmetal - THANK YOU, I never thought i'd see backbones in Americans in this place.
This whole anti-american sentiment is the equivalent of a political fashion statement, and especially someone in this country feeling that way, while they have the right to, makes me sick. You're all so morbid and grim, and you don't care about human life, oooh I'm so impressed. Maybe when you grow up, live a little, and learn alot, you'll understand just what LIFE IS, and how precious and rare LIBERTY, that holy grail of human existence from the dawn of time, truly is, and you'll want that for yourself and for every other man who would have it.
Its so funny to see those of you who think you're such intellectuals because you play devil's advocate, asking who the "real madman" is. We do not war without purpose or meaning, as such it is not subjectivie or relative. Ending WWII was NOT terrorism. You're just far too concerned with being 'different' rather than being correct.
This country is finally learning to get back on the Teddy Roosevelt tack - "Speak softly and carry a big stick; you will go far." It is time for strength, for decisiveness, to show everyone, from Arab terrorists, to northern european teenage metalheads, our quality. Finally we no longer care about 'popular opinion' or about what anti-capitalist european nations have to say about doing what's right, and in the end you jaded, fashionable sods will have your feet placed firmly in your mouths. Peace will eventually come from this, as it has in the past, but the test will be to see if as a world community we again fall into complacency until the next Nazi Germany or the next 9/11 happens, or if we will finally learn to speak softly but always carry that stick - and i'll be damned if ours ain't the biggest.
-Eric
. Xeno, Thrashmetal - THANK YOU, I never thought i'd see backbones in Americans in this place. This whole anti-american sentiment is the equivalent of a political fashion statement, and especially someone in this country feeling that way, while they have the right to, makes me sick. You're all so morbid and grim, and you don't care about human life, oooh I'm so impressed. Maybe when you grow up, live a little, and learn alot, you'll understand just what LIFE IS, and how precious and rare LIBERTY, that holy grail of human existence from the dawn of time, truly is, and you'll want that for yourself and for every other man who would have it.
Its so funny to see those of you who think you're such intellectuals because you play devil's advocate, asking who the "real madman" is. We do not war without purpose or meaning, as such it is not subjectivie or relative. Ending WWII was NOT terrorism. You're just far too concerned with being 'different' rather than being correct.
This country is finally learning to get back on the Teddy Roosevelt tack - "Speak softly and carry a big stick; you will go far." It is time for strength, for decisiveness, to show everyone, from Arab terrorists, to northern european teenage metalheads, our quality. Finally we no longer care about 'popular opinion' or about what anti-capitalist european nations have to say about doing what's right, and in the end you jaded, fashionable sods will have your feet placed firmly in your mouths. Peace will eventually come from this, as it has in the past, but the test will be to see if as a world community we again fall into complacency until the next Nazi Germany or the next 9/11 happens, or if we will finally learn to speak softly but always carry that stick - and i'll be damned if ours ain't the biggest.
-Eric
Wandrail
I'm your Huckleberry
Another thing that popped into my head as I'm reading Aggressor's post here, is how are people who are so jaded also be so damn naive? We have people who fled Iraq in this country, who are here in hiding, under political asylum telling us about the mass graves we will find in Iraq, about the torture, about the chemical weapons. Iraq says we're making everything up, that what you see in pictures isn't there, what we hear in phone conversations wasn't spoken, they feed on this lin eof us invading for their oil (I guess aiding a terrorist tyrant is acceptable to you?), next thing they'll be telling us they never invaded Kuwait, that we made it all up in 1990! It doesn't matter though, because we KNOW, and the truth will be born out in the end. I am just very curious as to what especially the French and the Germans (who signed those nice big oil deals with Iraq, now who's operating out of self-interest?) are going to have to say for themselves when its all over and the evidence is there before the whole world. France was once our greatest ally, and a noble nation with legendary figures, leaders, generals. They helped us gain our independance...what happened?
When the dust clears, alot of people will have a long way to go to reclaim any sense of honor, and if honor is something you don't believe in anymore either, or you really don't care about life or anything in it, none of what anyone is saying should matter to you anyway.
When the dust clears, alot of people will have a long way to go to reclaim any sense of honor, and if honor is something you don't believe in anymore either, or you really don't care about life or anything in it, none of what anyone is saying should matter to you anyway.
Dead Winter
STAHP
To the posting about why the "yanks" have to be the ones to oust Saddam...it's a WONDERFUL idea, but who else is going to do it? Tell me. WE CAN'T EVEN GET TWO OF OUR CLOSEST ALLIES (France and Germany) TO SUPPORT US IN OPERATION SOUTHERN WATCH!!!!!!!!!!!!
We've compromised intelligence sources to prove to these two dickholes that we're telling the truth, and yet they still don't believe us. THEY WON'T EVEN COME ALONG FOR THE RIDE, WHAT MAKES YOU THINK THEY ARE GOING TO SPEARHEAD AN INVASION? The last time the Germans spearheaded anything was when a certain dictator with a goofy moustache invaded Poland. And France? If we hadn't rescued their ungrateful asses, they'd be speaking German. Oh, and let's not forget the diplomatic and political ties that France has to none other than, you guessed it, IRAQ. There's a reason why we don't share intelligence with France anymore.
So let's go down the list of just a handful of prominent countries that we would think could be potentially viable for a major joint force/country invasion to oust a dictator who gasses his own people. By the way, this isn't a slam on ANY CITIZENS in these countries, whatsoever. I just find fault in their leadership.
Germany - Great beer, great women, shitty nu-metal bands like Rammstein, and a new leader who doesn't know the difference between his ass and a hole in the ground are what this country is known for. The sad part? Alot of Germany's people love him. The German people as a whole are wonderful people, very kind towards Americans and as a whole support the West. Also, one of the most beautiful countries in Europe. It's not gonna happen because Germany has too much to lose.
France - Don't get me started. The French are just conceited, nothing wrong with that. However, there is something wrong with forgetting why you're still alive, and aiding and abetting a known dictator who should be executed for his crimes against humanity. Plus, the French aren't what they used to be...not even a shadow of their former selves. France used to be a juggernaut of a country, now they roll over and get porked. Too many pacifists, not enough balls.
Russia - For being a sworn enemy at one time, these days I'm quite fond of Russia. Their reasons for staying out are understandable; their economy is shot. They can't afford a war, and need to focus on rebuilding their country. Quite understandable. That goes for all the surrounding countries that broke off from the former USSR.
Scandinavia - I'm just going to lump all of them into one; NorSweFinMark. That will be the entity known as Scandinavia. Let's take a look at this militarily. Scandinavia is a wonderful place, and I'm dying to go there. The only place where the women are even hotter than Germany. They have alot of Western influence there as well, mainly with the military. We'll just take the Air Force for example. Their main fighter is the F-16. We call it the Viper because that's what the fighter pilots wanted it to be called originally, then the U.S. government had to come up with something really gay like "Fighting Falcon". Ugh. Anyway, we still call it a Viper, just to spite them. (As a side note, if you ever meet a viper pilot, don't ever call him a "falcon" pilot...he'll smack you.) Anyway, as you all probably know, unless you've been living in a fucking cave for the past 30 years, the world's premier air to air fighter is the F-15C Eagle. It's bigger, faster, has a better radar, better avionics, and can employ more ordinance than the Viper, which is much smaller and mainly used for air to ground, although it has an air to air role as well. The F-15 was so fucking good, that we though, "HEY, WHY NOT MAKE A CONVERSION TO AN AIR TO AIR *AND* AIR TO GROUND VERSION?" So they did, and it's now known as the F-15E. It can simultaneously employ air to air AND air to ground ordinance, with the help of the WSO (weapons systems officer). In other words, the F-15C just got a massive upgrade from "kickass" to "HOLY FUCKIN' SHIT, YOU ARE SO DEAD IF YOU EVER CHALLENGE ME IN THE SKY *OR* THE GROUND!". That being said, we are the primary employers of this spectacular aircraft, with the exception of Japan, Israel, and Saudi Arabia. Now, back to my point. The Viper is a really good air to ground fighter, but it is also extremely limited. It has one engine, short legs (range), and the radar is pretty weak compared to the Eagle's gargantuan radar, as well as a more limited avionics suite than the F-15 E for ground attack. And, it doesn't hurt to mention that we have more aircraft in our Air National Guard than all of Scandinavia COMBINED. We're not even counting our Air Force Reserve and Active Duty Air Force. So therefore, for obvious reasons, Scandinavia isn't going to spearhead anything...unless it consists of a mic stand, high screeching vocals, downtuned guitars, and drummers with blinding speed. Ihsahn, Samoth, and Trym are gods. However, Norway has been extremely helpful since the Gulf War in its support of our operations. What little it could offer, it offered whole heartedly, and there is a tremendous amount of respect for all those countries. So, although it would be fucking awesome to witness, I seriously doubt that Scandinavia is going to send in all their forces to combat something of this magnitude, and send everyone to their deaths.
Let's move on....
Poland - Just got accepted to NATO because of the shape their country was in. They didn't pass inspections for the longest time with their structures within their country, and therefore since their economy was so down, it took a long, long time to build up the equity to refurbish the country. I highly doubt that they'll take on a full-on invasion all by themselves, since it took them so llong to scrape up the money to rebuild their buildings. Great sausages, though.
England - England doesn't take a shit without us right there, tissue in hand, ready to wipe their ass for them. The same goes for us. Who do we call on immediately when we need an ally? England; the same country we hated so much that we sailed all the way across an ocean and braved brutal winters in a wilderness with savages just to get away from. Talk about irony. Know what's even more ironic? France helped us.
Spain - Are you kidding? Why? Great country, great people, great food, great leadership, great military, and THEY ACTUALLY ARE HELPING US. They've done enough already.
Canada - HAHAHAHHA! THAT'S FUNNY!
Brazil - They're too busy burning our flags
Pakistan - See above statement
Iran - See above statement
South Korea - See above statement...they actually are more afraid of us than of North Korea...at least the young people are. It's good to see that America isn't the only country with stupid young people.
Japan - They've got their hands full with the North Korean situation.
That's about all I can think of right now...at least countries with alot of influence.
Now I will address some of the comments made earlier.....
By the people, for the people...you wanna know what that really means? THAT DOESN'T MEAN THAT JUST BECAUSE PEOPLE DON'T AGREE WITH SOMETHING THAT THEIR GOVERNMENT IS DOING, THAT THE GOVERNMENT SHOULD SAY (sheepishly) "OOOOKKKK, we won't defend ourselves from a possible terrorist, nuclear, or biological invasion because it offends your sensibilities. Sorry, it won't happen again." That's the dumbest thing I've heard in a long time. I'LL SAY THIS ONCE, AND ONLY ONCE...AND IT SHOULD CLEAR UP EVERYTHING....
National policy isn't based on public sentiment. We don't make decisions based on whether or not you will like us. THIS ISN'T FUCKING HIGH SCHOOL, ALTHOUGH I'M SURE THAT'S WHAT YOU ARE USED TO. We make decisions based on what we think is right and wrong. If you are still in school, then you should have known since about the 4th grade that the President doesn't declare war; Congress does.
That brings me to my next point: WHAT THE FUCK DO YOU KNOW ABOUT THE REAL WORLD, FROM FUCKING 'CIVICS' CLASS? WHEN WAS THE LAST TIME YOU'VE SEEN SUFFERING IN OTHER COUNTRIES? WHEN WAS THE LAST TIME YOU EVEN LIVED ON YOUR OWN? DID YOU PAY FOR THE COMPUTER THAT YOU ARE EXERCISING YOUR FREE SPEECH ON? Yeah, it's really easy to spout about how we're an evil country of Imperialists, especially when Mom and Dad are paying for the internet connection. First of all, we aren't Imperialists. If we were imperialist, we wouldn't have given everything back to the countries we invaded. Japan, Germany, North Korea...the only spoils of war we got were casualties. We gave everything back to them because IT'S THE RIGHT THING TO DO. Imperialists keep everything. THAT'S the difference...remember it next time you're in study hall or homeroom, holding your girlfriend's hand between classes to and from your lockers. Talk to me when you've fucking lived a little. I was 7 when you were born. You aren't that old, because I'M NOT THAT OLD! Don't act like you know what you're talking about, because your information comes from the news and the propaganda you hear in our music.
That brings me to another point that Wandrail brought up. For a genre that is so "hard" and so "evil", there sure are a bunch of pussies. You know, being a poser isn't just limited to music. It's really easy to act evil with death paint, upside down crosses, blastbeats, and bad vocals. How can people be so fake? You wage war on organized religion, and spew forth memorized lines of silly lyrics about gore, hatred, and anything else you can think of for shock value, yet you are scared to death of the possibility of someone dying in a war. You wanna know why it scares you? BECAUSE YOU CAN'T WALK THE FUCKIN' WALK. For a genre that's so extreme and out there, the sad fact is that there's just a bunch of scared people who just want to be safe, and not commit to anything that would require any type of sacrifice on their part whatsoever. Let's all just be safe in our little world, at our dead-end job and shitty town/city, only to get run over by a fuckin' bus because we didn't look both ways when crossing the street. Yeah, that's the life I want to lead, I don't know about you. I want to be a fucking worm the rest of my life; a fuckin' spineless invertebrate so scared of his own shadow that he has to cast another one just to make up for it. FUCK YOU. POSER. DIE.
That wasn't aimed at anyone on this board, just observations I've seen in the past.
Welp, Round 2 has ended. Back to listening to Strapping Young Lad. I've got much more, but I don't think I'll subject any of you to it yet...this was a bit much anyway, LOL!
We've compromised intelligence sources to prove to these two dickholes that we're telling the truth, and yet they still don't believe us. THEY WON'T EVEN COME ALONG FOR THE RIDE, WHAT MAKES YOU THINK THEY ARE GOING TO SPEARHEAD AN INVASION? The last time the Germans spearheaded anything was when a certain dictator with a goofy moustache invaded Poland. And France? If we hadn't rescued their ungrateful asses, they'd be speaking German. Oh, and let's not forget the diplomatic and political ties that France has to none other than, you guessed it, IRAQ. There's a reason why we don't share intelligence with France anymore.
So let's go down the list of just a handful of prominent countries that we would think could be potentially viable for a major joint force/country invasion to oust a dictator who gasses his own people. By the way, this isn't a slam on ANY CITIZENS in these countries, whatsoever. I just find fault in their leadership.
Germany - Great beer, great women, shitty nu-metal bands like Rammstein, and a new leader who doesn't know the difference between his ass and a hole in the ground are what this country is known for. The sad part? Alot of Germany's people love him. The German people as a whole are wonderful people, very kind towards Americans and as a whole support the West. Also, one of the most beautiful countries in Europe. It's not gonna happen because Germany has too much to lose.
France - Don't get me started. The French are just conceited, nothing wrong with that. However, there is something wrong with forgetting why you're still alive, and aiding and abetting a known dictator who should be executed for his crimes against humanity. Plus, the French aren't what they used to be...not even a shadow of their former selves. France used to be a juggernaut of a country, now they roll over and get porked. Too many pacifists, not enough balls.
Russia - For being a sworn enemy at one time, these days I'm quite fond of Russia. Their reasons for staying out are understandable; their economy is shot. They can't afford a war, and need to focus on rebuilding their country. Quite understandable. That goes for all the surrounding countries that broke off from the former USSR.
Scandinavia - I'm just going to lump all of them into one; NorSweFinMark. That will be the entity known as Scandinavia. Let's take a look at this militarily. Scandinavia is a wonderful place, and I'm dying to go there. The only place where the women are even hotter than Germany. They have alot of Western influence there as well, mainly with the military. We'll just take the Air Force for example. Their main fighter is the F-16. We call it the Viper because that's what the fighter pilots wanted it to be called originally, then the U.S. government had to come up with something really gay like "Fighting Falcon". Ugh. Anyway, we still call it a Viper, just to spite them. (As a side note, if you ever meet a viper pilot, don't ever call him a "falcon" pilot...he'll smack you.) Anyway, as you all probably know, unless you've been living in a fucking cave for the past 30 years, the world's premier air to air fighter is the F-15C Eagle. It's bigger, faster, has a better radar, better avionics, and can employ more ordinance than the Viper, which is much smaller and mainly used for air to ground, although it has an air to air role as well. The F-15 was so fucking good, that we though, "HEY, WHY NOT MAKE A CONVERSION TO AN AIR TO AIR *AND* AIR TO GROUND VERSION?" So they did, and it's now known as the F-15E. It can simultaneously employ air to air AND air to ground ordinance, with the help of the WSO (weapons systems officer). In other words, the F-15C just got a massive upgrade from "kickass" to "HOLY FUCKIN' SHIT, YOU ARE SO DEAD IF YOU EVER CHALLENGE ME IN THE SKY *OR* THE GROUND!". That being said, we are the primary employers of this spectacular aircraft, with the exception of Japan, Israel, and Saudi Arabia. Now, back to my point. The Viper is a really good air to ground fighter, but it is also extremely limited. It has one engine, short legs (range), and the radar is pretty weak compared to the Eagle's gargantuan radar, as well as a more limited avionics suite than the F-15 E for ground attack. And, it doesn't hurt to mention that we have more aircraft in our Air National Guard than all of Scandinavia COMBINED. We're not even counting our Air Force Reserve and Active Duty Air Force. So therefore, for obvious reasons, Scandinavia isn't going to spearhead anything...unless it consists of a mic stand, high screeching vocals, downtuned guitars, and drummers with blinding speed. Ihsahn, Samoth, and Trym are gods. However, Norway has been extremely helpful since the Gulf War in its support of our operations. What little it could offer, it offered whole heartedly, and there is a tremendous amount of respect for all those countries. So, although it would be fucking awesome to witness, I seriously doubt that Scandinavia is going to send in all their forces to combat something of this magnitude, and send everyone to their deaths.
Let's move on....
Poland - Just got accepted to NATO because of the shape their country was in. They didn't pass inspections for the longest time with their structures within their country, and therefore since their economy was so down, it took a long, long time to build up the equity to refurbish the country. I highly doubt that they'll take on a full-on invasion all by themselves, since it took them so llong to scrape up the money to rebuild their buildings. Great sausages, though.
England - England doesn't take a shit without us right there, tissue in hand, ready to wipe their ass for them. The same goes for us. Who do we call on immediately when we need an ally? England; the same country we hated so much that we sailed all the way across an ocean and braved brutal winters in a wilderness with savages just to get away from. Talk about irony. Know what's even more ironic? France helped us.
Spain - Are you kidding? Why? Great country, great people, great food, great leadership, great military, and THEY ACTUALLY ARE HELPING US. They've done enough already.
Canada - HAHAHAHHA! THAT'S FUNNY!
Brazil - They're too busy burning our flags
Pakistan - See above statement
Iran - See above statement
South Korea - See above statement...they actually are more afraid of us than of North Korea...at least the young people are. It's good to see that America isn't the only country with stupid young people.
Japan - They've got their hands full with the North Korean situation.
That's about all I can think of right now...at least countries with alot of influence.
Now I will address some of the comments made earlier.....
By the people, for the people...you wanna know what that really means? THAT DOESN'T MEAN THAT JUST BECAUSE PEOPLE DON'T AGREE WITH SOMETHING THAT THEIR GOVERNMENT IS DOING, THAT THE GOVERNMENT SHOULD SAY (sheepishly) "OOOOKKKK, we won't defend ourselves from a possible terrorist, nuclear, or biological invasion because it offends your sensibilities. Sorry, it won't happen again." That's the dumbest thing I've heard in a long time. I'LL SAY THIS ONCE, AND ONLY ONCE...AND IT SHOULD CLEAR UP EVERYTHING....
National policy isn't based on public sentiment. We don't make decisions based on whether or not you will like us. THIS ISN'T FUCKING HIGH SCHOOL, ALTHOUGH I'M SURE THAT'S WHAT YOU ARE USED TO. We make decisions based on what we think is right and wrong. If you are still in school, then you should have known since about the 4th grade that the President doesn't declare war; Congress does.
That brings me to my next point: WHAT THE FUCK DO YOU KNOW ABOUT THE REAL WORLD, FROM FUCKING 'CIVICS' CLASS? WHEN WAS THE LAST TIME YOU'VE SEEN SUFFERING IN OTHER COUNTRIES? WHEN WAS THE LAST TIME YOU EVEN LIVED ON YOUR OWN? DID YOU PAY FOR THE COMPUTER THAT YOU ARE EXERCISING YOUR FREE SPEECH ON? Yeah, it's really easy to spout about how we're an evil country of Imperialists, especially when Mom and Dad are paying for the internet connection. First of all, we aren't Imperialists. If we were imperialist, we wouldn't have given everything back to the countries we invaded. Japan, Germany, North Korea...the only spoils of war we got were casualties. We gave everything back to them because IT'S THE RIGHT THING TO DO. Imperialists keep everything. THAT'S the difference...remember it next time you're in study hall or homeroom, holding your girlfriend's hand between classes to and from your lockers. Talk to me when you've fucking lived a little. I was 7 when you were born. You aren't that old, because I'M NOT THAT OLD! Don't act like you know what you're talking about, because your information comes from the news and the propaganda you hear in our music.
That brings me to another point that Wandrail brought up. For a genre that is so "hard" and so "evil", there sure are a bunch of pussies. You know, being a poser isn't just limited to music. It's really easy to act evil with death paint, upside down crosses, blastbeats, and bad vocals. How can people be so fake? You wage war on organized religion, and spew forth memorized lines of silly lyrics about gore, hatred, and anything else you can think of for shock value, yet you are scared to death of the possibility of someone dying in a war. You wanna know why it scares you? BECAUSE YOU CAN'T WALK THE FUCKIN' WALK. For a genre that's so extreme and out there, the sad fact is that there's just a bunch of scared people who just want to be safe, and not commit to anything that would require any type of sacrifice on their part whatsoever. Let's all just be safe in our little world, at our dead-end job and shitty town/city, only to get run over by a fuckin' bus because we didn't look both ways when crossing the street. Yeah, that's the life I want to lead, I don't know about you. I want to be a fucking worm the rest of my life; a fuckin' spineless invertebrate so scared of his own shadow that he has to cast another one just to make up for it. FUCK YOU. POSER. DIE.
That wasn't aimed at anyone on this board, just observations I've seen in the past.
Welp, Round 2 has ended. Back to listening to Strapping Young Lad. I've got much more, but I don't think I'll subject any of you to it yet...this was a bit much anyway, LOL!
Voice of God
Harmless Bum
As an european, I would very much like to see this happen too. It's not like the rest of the world can't cope without usa.
@Wandrail: You said "now who's operating out of self-interest". The cold hard fact is that EVERYONE is operating out of self-interest. e.g. Usa hasn't been in any war out of generosity and the will to help that other country. There's always another motive, whatever it may be, political, economical, strategic. Same way every other damn country is acting as selfisly as they will.
@Thrashmeta78: Few corrections and an opinion. 1) Russia can afford a war, they are in one in Chechenia (sp?) although it has settled down a bit, but it's still a war. 2) Finland's main fighter is F-18. Although Sweden's and Norways might be F-16, don't know about that, so that would make it the main fighter. 3) Norway helped usa because it's part of NATO. I highly doubt finland or sweden are going to give up the non-aligned role we've had since ww2. There's been talk about Finland joining NATO, but majority of people (and members of parliament) loathe the idea.
Opinion: You accuse people not knowing anything of real world because they haven't seen the places. Just remember that you're in army (or so I understood), that's the beehive of propaganda, if you rely on information you get there, you might be further away from the real world than those you bash. And yes I've been in army, that just so you know, before you say I don't know anything about being in army because I'm a poser internet-geek and all that crap.
lizard
Member
it is interesting to see almost every nato nation has signed on to support the usa, except Germany and the French, who should still be thanking us for saving their ass from the germans TWICE in less than 100 years.
thrashmetal: you servicepeople deserve our respect, not the crap dished out by some. and soon you'll be gone from another ungrateful nation we saved, S. Korea. Good for you.
thrashmetal: you servicepeople deserve our respect, not the crap dished out by some. and soon you'll be gone from another ungrateful nation we saved, S. Korea. Good for you.
Dead Winter
STAHP
I'm not saying that I know it all, I'm just saying that the average American working at the average job doesn't get the exposure to other parts of the world enough to make a decision that affects national security. That's all.
Actually I'm in the Air Force.
And you are correct, I had forgotten about the F-18...but if you know anything about aircraft, you'd also know that the F-18 is basically an F-16 with two engines. The radar and avionics aren't up to par with an F-15, although low speed maneuvering is much better.
Another thing...I never said Russia couldn't afford a war....I said Russia couldn't SPEARHEAD A MASSIVE INVASION. Maybe I should clarify this some more. Russia couldn't spearhead an invasion and have the continuity that the US has in the Sandbox. They can't even afford to train their pilots more than a few times a year. Do you know how many sorties U.S. pilots fly EVERY SINGLE DAY ACROSS THE GLOBE? LITERALLY THOUSANDS. do you know how many sorties the Russians fly IN AN ENTIRE YEAR? LESS THAN 100. That's a fact. Also, it's not like Russia has to travel ALL THE WAY ACROSS THE GLOBE, LIKE WE DO, to reach their destination. It would be like us invading Canada...it's not really an invasion, just fighting.
As far as the military comment, yer dead on. There's alot of propaganda in the military shown on television, and through the media within the military. But we see through it, and we can think for ourselves. But then again, we're in the Air Force...we're paid to think.
The daily intel briefing I get every morning on the status of North Korea is HARDLY propaganda. The briefings we receive and make command decisions on are also HARDLY PROPAGANDA. The "beehive" you are talking about comes from the civilian community, not the military. You have to remember, we work for civilians, not military leaders. We carry out the orders of those appointed above us, and who are those appointed above us? The President, Congress, Senators, Representatives, etc...THAT'S THE BEEHIVE. So once again, it comes right back to the media.
Another thing, I never singled ANYONE out, with the exception of the high school comments. Therefore, if you feel that you are a "poser internet-geek and all that crap", then it sounds to me like you have an inferiority complex. Now let's expand on that.
Being in the army, where did you travel to? Don't take this the wrong way, but we are in completely different leagues, much less ballparks. I'm sure you traveled to other countries within Europe, which is about like me traveling from state to state within the United States. It's a far cry from deploying across the globe to a country that doesn't even want you there, but you have to be there because if you don't, everyone else is fucked. Last time I checked, I don't recall deploying with a Finnish detachment halfway across the world, and I DEFINITELY don't recall a Finnish task force deploying to our side of the world. I don't recall Finland sending waves upon waves upon waves of strike, air to air, and bomber aircraft to the Gulf, along with entire battalions of ground forces and three carrier battle groups to the Persian Gulf as well. When was the last time a Finnish fighter got fired upon by an Iraqi SAM in Operation Southern Watch? You wanna know when the last time we got fired upon? Every day. EVERY SINGLE FUCKING DAY OUR PILOTS GET EITHER LOCKED UP OR FIRED UPON, AND DO YOU KNOW WHY YOU DIDN'T KNOW THAT? BECAUSE THE FUCKING MEDIA DOESN'T DEEM IT "NEWS" ENOUGH TO SHOW IT ON A REGULAR BASIS. WE ENFORCE THE NO-FLY ZONE SO IRAQ WON'T GET DESPERATE AGAIN AND INVADE KUWAIT. There is so much that you NEVER KNEW, EVEN WHILE YOU WERE IN YOUR ARMY, and you will never know. Now before you get all huffy and think I'm slamming on your country, which I most certainly am not, let me explain. Do you know why you haven't done all those things? Because you don't have to. It's as simple as that. Your Army, Navy, and Air Force serve as a defense force ONLY, which is pretty damn nice. DO YOU ACTUALLY THINK THAT WE *WANT* TO GO TO THE DESERT? DO YOU THINK I LIKE BEING SENT TO SOUTH KOREA FOR AN ENTIRE YEAR WITHOUT MY FAMILY AND FRIENDS? DO YOU THINK I LIKE GETTING SPIT ON AND CALLED "DIRTY AMERICAN" BY THE SOUTH KOREANS AND ARAB PEOPLE? OF COURSE NOT!!! HOW WOULD YOU FEEL, KNOWING THAT THE SAME PEOPLE THAT YOUR FAMILY FOUGHT AND *DIED* TO DEFEND ARE BURNING YOUR FLAG AND ATTACKING US?
BELIEVE ME, I would love to give the entire world the finger, with the exception of Germany, Italy, Japan and England (because those are cool places to be stationed lol) and tell them to go fuck themselves. WE ALL WOULD LIKE TO DO THAT. But we can't do that, because someone has to step up to the plate and take a swing, because most everyone else is TOO CHICKEN SHIT to do it. THAT is the cold hard truth. But I signed on the dotted line, and I swore to uphold the Constitution, and to defend my country from ALL enemies, both FOREIGN AND DOMESTIC, for as long as I serve in Her Armed Forces. THAT IS WHY MYSELF AND MILLIONS OF OTHER AMERICANS ARE FIGHTING AND DYING EVERY DAY TO KEEP OUR *ALLIES* FROM BECOMING NUCLEAR FALLOUT. That's what's so scary. Iraq's weapons can't reach the U.S. through conventional means, and they don't have the technology for a space-based war. But do you know who they CAN target? ALL OF EUROPE. And do you know who the two biggest countries that oppose this operation are? Germany and France. We're sending our troops to PROTECT THEIR UNGRATEFUL ASSES, yet they have no inclination as to the gravity of the situation. Blows my fucking mind. But then again, they're just pacifists. Again, nothing against the people of those countries, but their leaders have got to go.
So there you have it. To look at the United States as any other country in the world is foolish, because no other country is like the US. No other country has our capabilities. We have a responsibility to the entire world, that with the power that we can wield, to use it responsibly and correctly, and to better serve humanity. There will be mistakes, there always are. But this isn't a mistake. This is overdue.
Actually I'm in the Air Force.
And you are correct, I had forgotten about the F-18...but if you know anything about aircraft, you'd also know that the F-18 is basically an F-16 with two engines. The radar and avionics aren't up to par with an F-15, although low speed maneuvering is much better.
Another thing...I never said Russia couldn't afford a war....I said Russia couldn't SPEARHEAD A MASSIVE INVASION. Maybe I should clarify this some more. Russia couldn't spearhead an invasion and have the continuity that the US has in the Sandbox. They can't even afford to train their pilots more than a few times a year. Do you know how many sorties U.S. pilots fly EVERY SINGLE DAY ACROSS THE GLOBE? LITERALLY THOUSANDS. do you know how many sorties the Russians fly IN AN ENTIRE YEAR? LESS THAN 100. That's a fact. Also, it's not like Russia has to travel ALL THE WAY ACROSS THE GLOBE, LIKE WE DO, to reach their destination. It would be like us invading Canada...it's not really an invasion, just fighting.
As far as the military comment, yer dead on. There's alot of propaganda in the military shown on television, and through the media within the military. But we see through it, and we can think for ourselves. But then again, we're in the Air Force...we're paid to think.
The daily intel briefing I get every morning on the status of North Korea is HARDLY propaganda. The briefings we receive and make command decisions on are also HARDLY PROPAGANDA. The "beehive" you are talking about comes from the civilian community, not the military. You have to remember, we work for civilians, not military leaders. We carry out the orders of those appointed above us, and who are those appointed above us? The President, Congress, Senators, Representatives, etc...THAT'S THE BEEHIVE. So once again, it comes right back to the media.
Another thing, I never singled ANYONE out, with the exception of the high school comments. Therefore, if you feel that you are a "poser internet-geek and all that crap", then it sounds to me like you have an inferiority complex. Now let's expand on that.
Being in the army, where did you travel to? Don't take this the wrong way, but we are in completely different leagues, much less ballparks. I'm sure you traveled to other countries within Europe, which is about like me traveling from state to state within the United States. It's a far cry from deploying across the globe to a country that doesn't even want you there, but you have to be there because if you don't, everyone else is fucked. Last time I checked, I don't recall deploying with a Finnish detachment halfway across the world, and I DEFINITELY don't recall a Finnish task force deploying to our side of the world. I don't recall Finland sending waves upon waves upon waves of strike, air to air, and bomber aircraft to the Gulf, along with entire battalions of ground forces and three carrier battle groups to the Persian Gulf as well. When was the last time a Finnish fighter got fired upon by an Iraqi SAM in Operation Southern Watch? You wanna know when the last time we got fired upon? Every day. EVERY SINGLE FUCKING DAY OUR PILOTS GET EITHER LOCKED UP OR FIRED UPON, AND DO YOU KNOW WHY YOU DIDN'T KNOW THAT? BECAUSE THE FUCKING MEDIA DOESN'T DEEM IT "NEWS" ENOUGH TO SHOW IT ON A REGULAR BASIS. WE ENFORCE THE NO-FLY ZONE SO IRAQ WON'T GET DESPERATE AGAIN AND INVADE KUWAIT. There is so much that you NEVER KNEW, EVEN WHILE YOU WERE IN YOUR ARMY, and you will never know. Now before you get all huffy and think I'm slamming on your country, which I most certainly am not, let me explain. Do you know why you haven't done all those things? Because you don't have to. It's as simple as that. Your Army, Navy, and Air Force serve as a defense force ONLY, which is pretty damn nice. DO YOU ACTUALLY THINK THAT WE *WANT* TO GO TO THE DESERT? DO YOU THINK I LIKE BEING SENT TO SOUTH KOREA FOR AN ENTIRE YEAR WITHOUT MY FAMILY AND FRIENDS? DO YOU THINK I LIKE GETTING SPIT ON AND CALLED "DIRTY AMERICAN" BY THE SOUTH KOREANS AND ARAB PEOPLE? OF COURSE NOT!!! HOW WOULD YOU FEEL, KNOWING THAT THE SAME PEOPLE THAT YOUR FAMILY FOUGHT AND *DIED* TO DEFEND ARE BURNING YOUR FLAG AND ATTACKING US?
BELIEVE ME, I would love to give the entire world the finger, with the exception of Germany, Italy, Japan and England (because those are cool places to be stationed lol) and tell them to go fuck themselves. WE ALL WOULD LIKE TO DO THAT. But we can't do that, because someone has to step up to the plate and take a swing, because most everyone else is TOO CHICKEN SHIT to do it. THAT is the cold hard truth. But I signed on the dotted line, and I swore to uphold the Constitution, and to defend my country from ALL enemies, both FOREIGN AND DOMESTIC, for as long as I serve in Her Armed Forces. THAT IS WHY MYSELF AND MILLIONS OF OTHER AMERICANS ARE FIGHTING AND DYING EVERY DAY TO KEEP OUR *ALLIES* FROM BECOMING NUCLEAR FALLOUT. That's what's so scary. Iraq's weapons can't reach the U.S. through conventional means, and they don't have the technology for a space-based war. But do you know who they CAN target? ALL OF EUROPE. And do you know who the two biggest countries that oppose this operation are? Germany and France. We're sending our troops to PROTECT THEIR UNGRATEFUL ASSES, yet they have no inclination as to the gravity of the situation. Blows my fucking mind. But then again, they're just pacifists. Again, nothing against the people of those countries, but their leaders have got to go.
So there you have it. To look at the United States as any other country in the world is foolish, because no other country is like the US. No other country has our capabilities. We have a responsibility to the entire world, that with the power that we can wield, to use it responsibly and correctly, and to better serve humanity. There will be mistakes, there always are. But this isn't a mistake. This is overdue.
Voice of God
Harmless Bum
I don't feel I'm a poser. I said "before you say...", because it seemed to me you basically named poser every (death/black) metal fan who doesn't want a war. My opinion is that aggressive lyrics fit aggressive music, but I usually don't take advice to my life from song lyrics (especially since it's not unusual that they are rewritten on the studio floor an hour before the recording of the vocals) . On the other hand I am full-time internet-geek, but I don't feel any less of myself because of that.
I also see now what you meant with the Russia and war. I'm not sure if I agree you with there, but I think it's just best to leave it here.
As for the military differences: I know very well us military and finnish military are extremely different all the way from the root (you're there voluntarily, we do our service because the law says so), but the whole point of me saying I've been in army was because of the propaganda thing. Just to let you know I know roughly what's the information and news situation there unless one bothers to keep themselves properly informed from non-military sources. I didn't mean to say that I've been in exactly similar situation as american military.
Fuþorc
Rotting Corpse Head!
Thrashmetal, you do bring up a good point. I have a friend who has just been deployed to Iraq.
@Aggressor
Saddam isn't going to remove himself, and someone has to do it. If the UN and Nato aren't going to do it, if the Iraqies themselves aren't going to do it, well, someone has too.
@Aggressor
Saddam isn't going to remove himself, and someone has to do it. If the UN and Nato aren't going to do it, if the Iraqies themselves aren't going to do it, well, someone has too.
Dead Winter
STAHP
Steve
New Metal Member
I don't really want to get into any huge conflict because of my location. Less than 45 minutes from New York City, on the shore (Papers from the WTC blew over to our coast in my town on 9/11), modern Missile storage bunkers in my town, the next town over has a factory that produces nuclear weapon parts.
My dad worked for the NSA during the Vietnam Conflict. HE even recieved a commendation from them. I also know several people including family who work for government contractors. I don't want to go into detail, but here are a few things I know that Uncle Sam doesn't want me to.
GE makes parts for nuclear weapons in Bridgeport, Connecticut
When the Lens for the Hubble Space Telescope was the wrong magnification, it was ground for a Spy Satellite. Perkin-Elmer make lenses for Spy satellites.
Hopefully when we clean out Iraq, we won't put another Oil executive in as the leader. Hamad Karzai is a former Oil exec.
thrashmetal78, good luck in your service
Steve
My dad worked for the NSA during the Vietnam Conflict. HE even recieved a commendation from them. I also know several people including family who work for government contractors. I don't want to go into detail, but here are a few things I know that Uncle Sam doesn't want me to.
GE makes parts for nuclear weapons in Bridgeport, Connecticut
When the Lens for the Hubble Space Telescope was the wrong magnification, it was ground for a Spy Satellite. Perkin-Elmer make lenses for Spy satellites.
Hopefully when we clean out Iraq, we won't put another Oil executive in as the leader. Hamad Karzai is a former Oil exec.
thrashmetal78, good luck in your service
Steve
Stoner Sioux
Death Metal Princess
I think that Bush is a sad excuse for a president. He's fucking up this country worse than his daddy did. He's trying to finish his daddy's war too. I bet he'll be the cause of WWIII. Can't the US just mind its own business. I hate the fact that we always have to get involved in other countries business. Oh well. There's nothing I can do to stop it. So if we're gonna get bombed then its Bush's fault.
No his not, but instead of invading the country which will lead to, without a doubt, huge losses on both sides, you could aid the resistance with specialists and equipment...and let them do the job.
And what about all your special forces units couldnt they do the job?
How many troops do you think you will loose in an invasion, if Saddam as you claim still has biological and chemical weapons?
Iam not opposed to war as long as there is a reason for it...
But I just cant find a good reason to attack Iraq, in 1991 it was different as Iraq invaded Kuwait, but Iraq is no longer a threat to the world...
If they were dont you think they would have launched an attack on their enemies a long time ago?
I dont see any honour in dying for an idiot of a president who thinks Nigeria is a continent, trying to finish something his father couldnt.
I for one wouldnt want to fight and die in his personal little war, but if you want be my guest.
Im just so fucking sick of the US acting as "the world police" trying to clean up in every sigle thing that happens in the world.
And Im very sick of all the states that dont have the guts to stand against the US, my own for one!
I see North Korea as a much bigger threat against the US then Iraq, North Korea acctually has nuclear weapons, and they have said that they want to use them against the US...
You will probably be able to fight a war on two fronts, but then you will soon have a situation that may turn into world war three, and do you really think thats worth it?
You are more than welcome to go and die in Iraq, but I will never support you in that!
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