So - how many are there?

[Ermz]

I'm talking about guys doing that interchangeable slate-core thing.

Getting to be really astounded to preview a new record, or new clip, only to find it's a carbon copy of something that's been posted... by someone else.... with another band...... years ago.

Is it because the deathcore or core genre in general is so devoid of originality that it spills over into the production work? Can someone elucidate for me? Why is everyone attempting to sound like everyone else?

To me it's the aural equivalent of this:

I understand, there are packs out there which make mix work fairly easy, but is there no incentive whatsoever left to create something unique?

 

[gabriel g.]

Do you want people to say that they suck because they are after that sound?

I mean Mr. Hood, Mr. Sturgis and Mr. Catharsis showed you often enough how great some generic deathcore bands can sound

just my 2 cents

 

[Ermz]

It has nothing to do with sucking, and everything to do with originality.

 

[gabriel g.]

I can understand your point, but there are some dudes who bring that genre to the next level, so that needs some respect IMO

 

[Ermz]

Don't get me wrong, I respect some of the work ethics, but when you're ultimately just parroting your last work, or the same work another band with another producer/engineer has done, what is the point? I'm not innocent here either, as I'm really trying to nail down the Staub, CLA thing, but at the very least with those approaches you have a degree of uniqueness from one project to the other.

I'm only bringing it up because it's started to become so pervasive. A large chunk of records I've recently previewed have sounded almost interchangeable as a result, both musically and production wise. This is the antithesis of the nature of music - growth, progression, change. Surely nurturing originality is more important than trying to sonically eclipse everything on a technical basis alone?

 

[Melb_shredder]

I'm only bringing it up because it's started to become so pervasive. A large chunk of records I've recently previewed have sounded almost interchangeable as a result, both musically and production wise. This is the antithesis of the nature of music - growth, progression, change. Surely nurturing originality is more important than trying to sonically eclipse everything on a technical basis alone?

right there! Pretty much sums up my exact thoughts on this topic! It's like what I said about the sway of an almost expected production being prefered over original music. It's a pretty sad state of affairs really, and coming up to album time for my band atleast, something we are going to try and break away from, while being superior in the same sense to the production "expectation" that such bands/ engineers have coined!

 

[Mutant]

If something sounds good and you like how it sounds and you can achieve that kind of sound, but you are afraid to do it, because you don't want to be accused of being unoriginal...

Then something is wrong.

With you.

 

[CatharsisStudios]

don't take this the wrong way ermz


but forgive me for not having a 50xbillion foot drum room with tons of nuemans and amazing huge budget studio gear to get drums sounds that don't have to replaced or sampled, or i can make my own samples that beat slate sorry that everytime a band hears the samples they fall in love with the drums, because thats what they were going for in the first time. I like the way slate drums sound and the whole slate core thing i mean bhood, joeys, joshs, just fucking rape drum wise, and they don't all the same, they have a bit of diffrence in each of em,

i mean we can all play the same game too. why does every swedish melodeath band sound exactly like the same? or almost everyother melodic death metal band? like insomnium, ensifiruim etc.

 

[Line666]

The conclusion I drew from the whole thing was that these days these sceney bands are some of the only ones that will pay good money to be produced, and this is what they want.

No one is going to make any earth shattered formulaic changes to the mixes when all the band are after is that super dooper processed sound anyway.

 

[smy1]

Öwen is right, it's what the market demands. If client wants X and you give him Y because you are striving for originality, you won't have a lot of clients. You also have to understand that you are in a completely different headspace than the clients/bands or listeners. Which is actually bad. Most people do not care about mixes. They simply don't. They also don't give a shit about the engineer's vision for something. It just is supposed to sound like something else they admire. The closer it sounds to that, the better, because then everyone will say "Fuckin great! Their record sounds just as good as Bullet For My Valentine!" etc.

Oh and regarding your statement:

This is the antithesis of the nature of music - growth, progression, change. Surely nurturing originality is more important than trying to sonically eclipse everything on a technical basis alone?

You couldn't be further from the truth. The nature of the music business is "copy what's popular as well as you can and try to sell it". The other part about growth and change is an artistic ideal that mostly the bands follow that don't make enough money to eat ... or afford a top engineer.

If you want to become a pro engineer, you'll have to do a lot of the rip-off bands and maybe 10% bands who want to sound different. And you have to be cool with that ratio, cause otherwise you are in the wrong job.

 

[Melb_shredder]

^^^
question???

How does this mentality reflect on up and coming bands??? Essentially, taking your advice, my band should copy a formula that already works instead of coming up with something new??? I don't get this to be honest...

 

[Melb_shredder]

Also, the most innovative bands will mention that for much of their early career, they did have no money for food etc. If bands want to copy paste and get an easier cruise, go for it! But those bass who have slugged it out and been unique stand the test of time, and these scene core bands come and go every week. It's just a flavour of the month, most of the shit. We are arguing about won't matter in a few years either way

 

[smy1]

Melb_shredder: I am not talking about bands but about the surrounding industry, which audio engineers and producers belong to. My own electro project is rather unusual in the scene that I am in, cause I too believe that originality matters. BUT ... originality starts at the source, with the band itself. If they don't strive to be original or the label wants them to sound like XYZ, then it's the job of the surrounding industry (producers, graphic designers, engineers, marketing dept., etc.) to make them sound like that.

Ermz has continually expressed his desire to become a professional and highly regarded mixer. And I think he is completely mistaken if he thinks that CLA and Randy Staub are getting bookings because of their originality. CLA has said it time and time again himself: he gets bookings because he continually puts out the same type of sound within a very short amount of time, so labels come to him because of his "standards" and because he has a proven track record, that means they cover their asses: if the song isn't a hit, they can at least say "well, but it's not because of the bad mix, cause we chose a great mixer". Yes, they are ass-backwards like that a lot of the time ...

And to answer your question: if you are making music because you love it and it's you art form, then do that. But the business isn't about originality. It's about finding one band that breaks through into the mainstream with something that's a ripoff of something old combined with some new features. Then everyone and their mothers will copy it for 5 years. Rinse and repeat the cycle with a new band/style. Maybe this will change once the power of major labels fades more and more, but right now this is what it looks like.

 

[The Unavoidable]

What's the point of this thread? What's the point of this discussion even? Do you expect every -core band to say "Oh yeah you're right, sorry bout that!" and all of the sudden sound completely different?


Ermz, you need to chill. Let other people do whatever the fuck they want, just as they let you do whatever the fuck you want. No one ever gives you any shit about the bands you produce, so please stop picking on those who happen to do something you don't like. This is getting pathetic.

 

[Deaf Ear]

I think a lot of it has to do with just the stall in technology. I mean, if you look at the accomplishments over the years of music production...multitracking, stereo drums, wider mixes, more headroom which gave way to brighter mixes, let's not forget LOUDER mixes. I mean, we're kinda at a point now where you can't get much brighter, wider, louder, bigger, tighter, etc. All the ultimate goals and things engineers have wished they could do for decades is a reality now. The originality comes down to the band making the music itself. I'm not saying that there may not be a few unturned stones in music production technology, surround for example if it would ever catch on.....but when it's all said and done....

You can't make an original sounding band sound generic with "production techniques"

Just a though.

 

[plague_rider]

Agreed you have to give the customer what they want, but how many times do we have to deal with people that come in saying they want to use they're own turd gear when people (like eddy for example) have a pile of better amps/cabs/gear to make it sound better...

isnt there a line between simply mixing and producing where we should say "dude your sound would be tonnes better with this rather than this"??

shouldnt we try to influence to try and spark more originality??


It seems that after people looking for POD presets and the same samples... it looks like before long it might just be worth uploading a template for a cubase/reaper/PT session for everyone to use... what do you reckon??

 

[Melb_shredder]

I +1 the last 2 posts!!! Perfect points IMO!

 

[MortenDK]

Could all so be due to Bands not having the big money to go to Large facilities/engineers and going to smaller studios who in turn trying to sound big, will use samples and impulses.
But with so many using the same samples and impulse libaries its hard to sound "out of place".
This is NOT meant as a slap in the face of anybody here using samples or impulses as im doing it myself!.
I just think its a big factor. In this new age of samples and impulse software.
You have to be more creative to make the the samples sound more real and less sampled!.

Morten

 

[amarshism]

Cream always rises

 

[plague_rider]

I understand what you mean, i'm using samples and impulses too, and i do create my own presets, and i agree, producers/mixing engineers should develop their style, its great that we can all take notes from Andy and even the rest of you guys on here who offer sterling pointers on things to do/gear to use, but along with helping a band achieve a sound, shouldn't we be imprinting our sound, so people notice a difference when they go to someone else, or come from someone else for a different EP/LP??