So - how many are there?

[wishtheend]

I have to agree with both sides. On the one hand, the current style production is exactly what gets people business and keeps the bills paid. It's cheaper on costs all around, so of course it's going to be what the label pushes for.

And if you dare to go against the trend, you most likely won't get the number of clients the trend style engineers do - but like any good trend it will eventually run out of steam. It may not be popular, but I think those who are thinking outside the box, or making the honest effort to do something different and new are the ones who will be setting the new standards and bringing about the change further down the line. It just sucks waiting it out because it takes a long time for people to catch on.

Hopefully after a while, bands will start noticing that they aren't sounding any different from the other hundreds of bands they are in compeition with. So then hopefully they will be the ones to push for new and different production style. After all, while bands want to sound like band A and band B, they still want their own indentity.

I think it just comes down to knowing which bands are open to it, or not. There will be some bands that want nothing but to sound like band X, so obviously there won't be any convincing them otherwise; but I'm sure there are the bands out there who are just aware of this trend as we are. Simple discussion and agreement between band and engineer could really set the gears in motion for something new.

 

[CatharsisStudios]

Ermz, I guess one could say that THIS IS YOUR FIGHT (gang vocals, cue chugging breakdown :Spin: )

-cricle pit-

 

[Mago]

wouldnt it be a waste to give bands a unique sound, but musicwise its the same like 1000 other *insertsomethinghere*core bands?
the songs are the same anyway (everything about chugga chugga and bree bree) so i wouldnt waste time on searching unique sounds for bands that dont even deserve it.
dont get me wrong, there are a lot musician with skills i'd kill to have, but i dont listen to some stuff just because its more brutal/faster whatever than everything else.
they deserve to have the same sound.
just my 2 cents ; )

I'm with you Emrz, the copypaste thing is shit, but i wouldnt give a fuck anyway.

 

[plague_rider]

On a personal (slightly elitist/negative) note, i'm gettin really sick of the local Scene/Hardcore kids...

 

[jval]

it's just a trend, there will always be trends. it's like reverb in the 80s. It will pass but it will be replaced by something else.
The truth is that you do need repeatability. I'm pretty sure you're a fan of CLA... he does exactly what you're talking about. Everyone needs a 'thing' or a sound to build a reputation and be successful. That doesn't mean there isn't still creativity within your usual way of working.
It seems like for you it's more an issue of people using slate samples and PODs and getting good mixes. I agree to some extent that it can get old. So I use certain slate snares when I do metal mixes... that one slate sample is not making the mix. I think there are so many things that contribute to a production more than what drum samples you use... just keep doing your thing and forget about what other people are doing. it's pointless.

 

[Force666]

Honestly Ermz, these threads just end up making you look like you think you're better than everyone else. To me it reads like jealousy that people like Joey (yup I said it), and Andy are on a path to success using that "cookie cutter" approach that you are so vehement against. You're obviously very "emotional" about the subject. But, the fact is, the industry doesn't care about your idealogy. From where i'm sitting it doesn't really seem like you could really handle it. I think if you found a way deeper into the industry it would eat you alive and spit you out the other end. You've admitted that you're shooting for a typical production style (Staub, etc.), you've said that you mimic Mikael Akerfeldt playing guitar, so what sets you so different? When you put all those pieces together, this thread seems ultra-hypocritical. It just seems like a passive aggressive approach at bashing on certain people. And if that's the case, a cowardly one at that. Not trying to pick a fight with you, or fuel the fire. I'm just letting you know what it looks like from another perspective.

 

[Jarkko Mattheiszen]

Drop the jealousy card already, people can have fucking opinions and preferences without being jealous to someone.

 

[Metaltastic]

Those damn critical hippos (sorry John, that one was irresistable )

 

[Force666]

Drop the jealousy card already, people can have fucking opinions and preferences without being jealous to someone.

So doesn't that mean I can have an opinion? My post was expressing my opinion, not fact.

Those damn critical hippos (sorry John, that one was irresistable )

haha .... dick! jk hypocritical?

 

[John_C]

There's a difference between one person having a cookie cutter approach and everyone using the same cookie cutter.

I guess it comes down to the idea that you're either doing art, or merely performing a technical exercise. Art is interesting and should be innovative and interesting, a repeated technical exercise gets you paid.

You're only gonna make decent money from real art if you're REALLY fucking good

 

[GarethSE]

I really don't think there's anything I can say in this topic that I haven't said before a hundred times before in far more tactless ways.
Ermz hit the nail on the head.

And I find it funny, if Steve Albini expresses distate for the music biz, everyone bows at his feet, if Ermin expresses distate for the music biz then its "HURR HURR BEND OVER AND LET SATAN FUCK YOU IN THE ASS YOU WHINY LITTLE BITCH THIS IS JUST THE WAY IT IS AND YOU CAN'T CHANGE IT"
Fuck that, fuck that hard.

Seriously, I cannot wait for the day when Ermin is 50-something and one of the most respected engineers in the business with a portfolio of work renowned for constantly changing and evolving sound wise and the pod and slate warriors are out of fucking work.
I have nothing more to add without risking another ban.

 

[Jarkko Mattheiszen]

So doesn't that mean I can have an opinion? My post was expressing my opinion, not fact.

Heh, true. It just seems that whenever someone criticizes on this subject, he gets accused of being jealous to Sturgis

 

[GarethSE]

Honestly Ermz, these threads just end up making you look like you think you're better than everyone else. To me it reads like jealousy that people like Joey (yup I said it), and Andy are on a path to success using that "cookie cutter" approach that you are so vehement against. You're obviously very "emotional" about the subject. But, the fact is, the industry doesn't care about your idealogy. From where i'm sitting it doesn't really seem like you could really handle it. I think if you found a way deeper into the industry it would eat you alive and spit you out the other end. You've admitted that you're shooting for a typical production style (Staub, etc.), you've said that you mimic Mikael Akerfeldt playing guitar, so what sets you so different? When you put all those pieces together, this thread seems ultra-hippocritical. It just seems like a passive aggressive approach at bashing on certain people. And if that's the case, a cowardly one at that. Not trying to pick a fight with you, or fuel the fire. I'm just letting you know what it looks like from another perspective.

Well with Slice The Cake and such, I attempt to mimic certain vocalists or certain styles, but that doesn't mean I'm trying to copy the cookie, it means I'm trying to look at some fucking recipes and add chunks of said recipes to my recipe to make the uber recipe that shits all over everyone elses recipe.
As far as I see it, that's Ermz' approach.

So basically, taking a bunch of influences and molding them into your own unique style, where's the harm in that?

 

[GarethSE]

Heh, true. It just seems that whenever someone criticizes on this subject, he gets accused of being jealous to Sturgis

I can vouch for this one.

 

[Force666]

Well with Slice The Cake and such, I attempt to mimic certain vocalists or certain styles, but that doesn't mean I'm trying to copy the cookie, it means I'm trying to look at some fucking recipes and add chunks of said recipes to my recipe to make the uber recipe that shits all over everyone elses recipe.
As far as I see it, that's Ermz' approach.

So basically, taking a bunch of influences and molding them into your own unique style, where's the harm in that?

Touche. Very good point. And very true. But at the same time I would say a lot of the bands put a slight little twist on the cookie cutter "deathcore" band or whateverthefuck we're talking about, too.

 

[John_C]

jealous to Sturgis

jealous OF Sturgis

sorry for being a twat :Smokedev:

 

[GarethSE]

I'm not even talking about that little twist of lemony freshness.
I'd LIKE TO THINK (don't take this as a HOLY FUCK I AM BETTER THAN EVERYONE thing,) i repeat, WOULD LIKE TO THINK, that I have a fairly unique vocal style that is more than just a slight twist.
Why? Because a slight twist doesn't really achieve much.
It's like saying a big lump of shit with a twist of lemon and lime for zesty freshness isn't a big lump of shit, it's a big lump of shit with a twist of lemon and lime for zesty freshness, which isn't all that different from just being a big lump of shit.
Y'see?

 

[Seth Munson]

if Ermin expresses distate for the music biz then its "HURR HURR BEND OVER AND LET SATAN FUCK YOU IN THE ASS YOU WHINY LITTLE BITCH THIS IS JUST THE WAY IT IS AND YOU CAN'T CHANGE IT"
Fuck that, fuck that hard.

but seriously, everyone knows there are people who do and do not like the "cookie cutter" ways. its been said many many many times on this forum. we know everyones views on the subject.

so why the fuck did Ermz makes this thread? we know he doesnt like it.
seems like this thread's intent was just to create arguments, therefor being completely useless.

just my .02

 

[Metaltastic]

Yes, but Gareth, you must admit, regardless of how generic and identical they all might be, the productions on all these maligned -core records sound really damn good (especially since I'm not familiar enough with the Slate sounds to immediately pick up on them), I would hardly call them lumps of shit (at least as far as the mixes are concerned )

 

[Seth Munson]

Yes, but Gareth, you must admit, regardless of how generic and identical they all might be, the productions on all these maligned -core records sound really damn good, I would hardly call them lumps of shit (at least as far as the mixes are concerned )

i would have to agree with this