So - how many are there?

smy1 said:
Oh and regarding your statement:

This is the antithesis of the nature of music - growth, progression, change. Surely nurturing originality is more important than trying to sonically eclipse everything on a technical basis alone?

You couldn't be further from the truth. The nature of the music business is "copy what's popular as well as you can and try to sell it". The other part about growth and change is an artistic ideal that mostly the bands follow that don't make enough money to eat ... or afford a top engineer.
Click to expand...

The big difference between your respective points is that Ermz said music, you said music business. Music is an art, and as such it should always be looking to progress and evolve. Business prefers products which have already been proved to sell. That's why fads happen - they're comfortable for the business side of things, so the businesses stick with them until sales drop.

I think a large part of what's happening with music at the moment is the result of the way the internet has affected the industry. As large labels are becoming less powerful, bands themselves are starting to think about the business side of things more, and it seems like some of them nervous about being different.

Steve
 
Definitely Business is different that Art. It would be cool if every band of the planet would make original music everytimes....but it's impossible. There are more weaks that talents and it has always been the same. Nowadays this fact is more noticeable because there are thousands of bands and we can potentially know each of these (by myspace, etc...). 10-15 years ago the well known bands are way less than now....labels could invest more money in less bands, that could stand more into the studio, etc...
Look at the RnB scene....nowadays every idiot sounds pretty the same, autotune vocals, same beats. 30 years ago we had for example a talent like Michael Jackson that spent 1 year into the studio with one of the best producer in the world, with the best musicians. The same happened to him when he was with the Jacksons 5.
Speaking about metal, Metallica stayed into the studio more than 1 year for the Black Album.
Nowadays which bands can afford 1 year into the studio? 2-3 weeks are already an enormous time and everytime the job is recording what they are already composed (that often, without a producer's help, is shitty material) and make it sounds pretty decent in the less time possible.
Anyway, more bands are not synonumous of better quality...with more bands unofrtunatelly you have lot of shitty music with less probability to find the "big thing"
 
Not to be a dick about it, but i see you constantly posting threads about how to achieve the exact sounds bergstrand and lord alge get Ermz ;)

All in all though, i don't see it as a bad thing to have a reference, just try not to lose your own ideas aswell i guess.. whatever..
 
Interesting to see that the opinions seem very polarized.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to hang shit directly on anybody, nor take sly potshots. I'm simply trying to understand why this sound is so desired and cloned. To me it's like taking the McDonald's approach to music. Of course bands or labels are going to go to you and say 'we loved that record you did, could you do something like that for us?'. So you take aspects of the sound they like, but spin them and deliver them in a new way. You don't just straight up load the presets of your old session and throw the new band in, with some fine adjustments to account for playing styles. You may as well just be a production line implement at that stage, or another middle management drone working in an office for the shroud sitting above, and pissing down on you.

I've admitted that I have certain influences for sure, but one of the things I spend the most time on, from project to project, is ensuring that each sounds unique to the ones before it. To me this is as much of a consideration as how hard the kick and snare punch, or how up front and in your face the vocal is.

I understand those of you saying 'this is what the industry demands, you need to have repeatability, to sustain trends, milk the market etc. etc.' but quite honestly that's never been an aspect of the industry I've warmed to. I just love great musical aesthetics. I love when great music fuses with great production. It has nothing to do with wanting to bend over and take it by the corrupt withering phallus that is the current music industry. I got into this because I love sounds, not because I love money.

So a lot of you will sit back and say 'oh, here he goes again with the complaining'. But why not? Honestly, these are massive issues and it seems like they just slip by unnoticed. How many interchangeable records does it take? Are we really striving to satisfy the suits rather than the music? All it takes is some awareness and some active voicing.
 
guitarist: I wish i could play like "insert great guitar hero"

painter: I wish i could paint like "insert great painter"...............wait a sec, that doesn't sit right, i don't here that said anywhere near as much

I guess it's because of the greater element of celebrity in music.
 
@Ermz, ill try to make my point although my native tongue isnt english...

I think starting this thread make you sound really immature, and childish in the way you reason. You just have to accept that people have different taste in music, it is not what the industry demands it is what the kids want to listen to. It has always been allot of crap in the music mainstream, you just have to accept it.

I for sure dont have the choice to say no to jobs just because i dont love the genre. I try not to judge the music i produce, i appreciate when people are talented and good at their instrument, that is what i like, even it it is crab core, rock, metal etc etc. I say this when im just done with a not so talented band, as which you described earlier. They will for sure get an audience when i have edited the drums, tuned the vocals etc.

It seems that you are on a quest that will only bring you down, try not to think as much and try to enjoy yourself, getting better at what you do, and maybe one day you (and i) can choose what bands we want to work with


Cheers
 
I have to add that I hate when I get put down by comments such as 'you can't say these things if you plan on being successful or a renowned mixer, you need to conform to the music business etc.'. Why not? We are the people after all, aren't we? We can mold this thing to be whatever we want - all it takes is enough awareness. Many mastering engineers are speaking about the evils of over-compression. Guys like Albini were talking about the evils and 'suck-dry' nature of the music biz. Why can't we talk about sterility and unoriginality with production? We all work in the same industry, and if they feel brave enough to criticize it, why not us?

Saying I'm being childish or whatever... ultimately that's just being dismissive. It's idealism at worst, but to me the true childish reasoning is consumption and propagation of the same products ad nauseam. Honestly, can someone tell me why this subject is so taboo?

I know these sorts of threads aren't going to make me popular around here, but quite honestly I don't care. Someone has to say it.
 
Well i mean that it is just a waste of time to put any thoughts into it, it is like trying to convince a religoius person that they are wrong, it is just going to get to a pointless argument which will come to nothing.

I think every genre has something to offer when it is performed by the best in that particular genre. It is amazing how you can grow accustom to things you dont like in the beginning.

Very well, good luck to you bro' :p
 
I think this happens every generation or 10 years. Reminds me of the old dude sitting outside thinking about when shit used to be good and not understanding how "kids today" can enjoy "this garbage".

I do it all the time and I'm only in my 30's.
 
Yeah even i notice it when i record bands when the members are around 18-20 and im only 25, and i imagine as you wrote that it will only getting worse as older you get haha,
 
I'm not sure you're getting the point. Ermz seems to be much more bothered with the lack of originality and innovation, not the content itself.

Innovation is being stifled by commercial interests and a strong desire to conform.

edit: It just happens to be that the modern "trendy" metal scene has become particularly stagnant and repetitive
 
99% of bands I have come in want to sound like someone else... I can't tell you how many times I've heard "MAKE IT SOUND LIKE ROOTS" or "I WANT TO SOUND LIKE THE NEW FOR TODAY ALBUM... BOOOOMMM!!!". If I give anything else, the band will not be coming back and probably wont refer anyone to me. In short, originality doesn't pay my bills, power my car, or feed my stomach. I do it when I can, but the problem is that I AM providing a service, and if I don't provide the service the way the customer wants, they wont be coming back. Imagine you go and want a painting done. You want a simple portrait, but the painter decides to try and be original and use all neon colored paints. Do you think you'd go back to that painter?
 
The only thing I've ever learned from a church was when a nun told me: "pride won't feed you boy".

I feel for Ermz though. I totally get what he's saying.
 
I'm with you, Ermz. It just seems that's what a lot of people want to hear right now, but I'm pretty certain it's just another trend that will disappear like a fart in a football stadium. I actually believe (even though it's naive and I know it) that in the coming years the major audience will start appreciating truly well performed and original music again. They have to grow tired of the five dollar mallcore sooner or later. I know it's pretty optimistic thinking, but I think the signs are slowly starting show already :)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Demonstealer
How many guitar tracks?
Replies
24
Views
12K
F.O.H.
Fragle
F
Wenchmaster
WoY - How are things?
Replies
3
Views
687
Woods of Ypres
CaGeD iN
C
ZANEX
So many posts, so little time...
Replies
14
Views
361
Nevermore
LORD_RED_DRAGON
L
Genius Gone Insane
Critiquing Andy?
Replies
13
Views
2K
Andy Sneap
Ermz
E
N
If you had been there.. (dt-related, so fuck you mod)
Replies
26
Views
992
Dark Tranquillity
Naku ist krig
N
Top Bottom
Back