So - how many are there?

[Ermz]

Funny how the protests kind of died off after Andy weighed in largely agreeing (much appreciated, by the way!).

Kind of illustrates Gareth's point some posts back, doesn't it?

 

[GarethSE]

I want you guys to know that I fucking called it.

Seriously, this attitude sickens me a little bit. Last time I checked this is a community of mostly open minded, intelligent people so why, pray tell, do people resort to calling the lesser knowns whiny and jealous and tell them repeatedly that "it's just the way things are" and insinuate that the sooner they bend over and let Satan fuck them up the ass, only to immediately back off when a pro expresses the exact same opinion?
Stop being a bunch of fucking hypocrites and start acting like mature, intelligent, free thinking adult individuals.
I mean, Jesus look at Steve Albini. When was the last time you saw him say anything good about the industry? Yet he's not suffering from a lack of money, commercial respect, critical respect, or underground respect. He's LIVING FUCKING PROOF that you can bitch about the industry and do things on your own damn terms without having to record a thousand crabcore bands to try and make a name for yourself.

 

[nwright]

I want you guys to know that I fucking called it.

Seriously, this attitude sickens me a little bit. Last time I checked this is a community of mostly open minded, intelligent people so why, pray tell, do people resort to calling the lesser knowns whiny and jealous and tell them repeatedly that "it's just the way things are" and insinuate that the sooner they bend over and let Satan fuck them up the ass, only to immediately back off when a pro expresses the exact same opinion?
Stop being a bunch of fucking hypocrites and start acting like mature, intelligent, free thinking adult individuals.
I mean, Jesus look at Steve Albini. When was the last time you saw him say anything good about the industry? Yet he's not suffering from a lack of money, commercial respect, critical respect, or underground respect. He's LIVING FUCKING PROOF that you can bitch about the industry and do things on your own damn terms without having to record a thousand crabcore bands to try and make a name for yourself.

....And, every single dude on here wanting to be an engineer can choose any route they want, be it an Albini style approach, or a template/preset deathcore kinda guy, right? I mean, you want us to be open minded, right? Wouldn't be a little hypocritical and not free thinking to limit everyone to ONLY doing the stuff YOU deem worthy?

I question your comprehension if you think Andy's post was necessarily an agreement with Ermz on the level for you to post your comments.

I don't even know why I'm posting in this thread. I have no cares about crabcore, deathcore, metalcore, blah blah, so it's of no matter to me. I don't listen to the stuff and only know band names from stuff on here, so....Sorry for posting.

 

[-J-]

I dunno, but it reminds me of going to Ozzfest a few years back. A few bands just kept the same amps and drums on stage and when one band was done they just jumped on the same gear; I don't even think they changed any settings, it's like "here's your stock metal tone boys!" Made me realize how samey a lot of bands are, at least gear/sound-wise. Of course there's an issue of time between bands, but still.

 

[GarethSE]

Nate, are you honestly defending the approach of using presets over making a calculated effort to constantly re-invent your own personal wheel?
Seriously?

 

[tobin1]

I honestly don't understand what the huge fuss over this is. The music industry has been like this for quite some time now...(Hairbands from the 80's, Nu-Metal/Hip-Hop explosion of the 90's, etc.)


Only thing different now is that kids who used to listen to rap at age 12 are now listening to catchy metal with clean vocals on all of the choruses. But now we have a huge kicker in this equation,


Kids who play cover songs in front of a camera on YouTube.


Now everyone thinks they have br00talz tonez because Line6 said so....

And im pretty sure most everyone on this forum would rather hear slate samples than the trashiest kit miced up with a 10 pack of CAD mics for $99.99 through a toneport.

 

[RemoWilliams]

I thought the producers and engineers who were trying to do something different needed the "cookie cutter" guys to make them look good. I wish more people cared about music and not just jumping on to a fad or copying someone else...but then again...more people are different and really don't care.

 

[Jind]

Pot, kettle, black - can't we just let people produce the music they want to produce and just leave it at that. If you don't like a particular band, genre, style - just say no. If you simply refuse to accept a band that wants to sound like such and such - just say no. If you really want to be an original artist - good luck with that as it's a tough road to follow as I can think of very few trend setters that really were not trend followers at a time in their lives. Music is an ever evolving art form - but in all cases it still comes down to the same things - pitch, rhythm, dynamics, timbre, and texture; regardless of style, genre, or instrument it's all made up those things and I'm pretty sure that almost all of us are copying someone else regardless whether it is by effort or accident.

If you believe you are a trendsetter than perhaps you are - stick to your guns and see how it turns out, but let others follow their dream too - perhaps some of the folks here want to be mega successful producers willing to sell their soul to whatever path will get them to the top as fast as they can, whatever musical form will jettisoning them like a rocket up the ladder in an industry defined by bands selling their musical souls to become successful and very few truly original people. If you are an original than good for you - if you can make a living at it good for you as well. But let others live their dream as they see fit - the only impact it has on you is the one you let it.

Live and let live - be and let be - worry about only your own goals and desires as you are your only judge that matters in the end.

I know I'm getting a bit flippy dippy here at the end, but I think it's worthless self effort worrying about what others do or what others create. If I worried about what any of you do I probably would not post here at all - I'm here for one person only - myself - if I improve by coming here than that's great, but I will only improve by making the effort towards what me, myself, and I are doing, not by worrying about what you all are doing.

As always - your mileage may vary - and Cest' le vie!

 

[Force666]

Uh no. I think it just got dropped due to everyone already said what they have to say. And there's no changing your mind, just as there is no changing ours. Can't really have a conversation with someone who inherently thinks they're better than everyone else, and defends their position with "i'm just so much smarter than you, that you can't possibly understand my "post tact"" I don't even record deathcore/metalcore or whatever the fuck, so it's not a personal vendetta.

I'll just point out the delusions of granjeur that you're comparing yourself to Steve Albini. Constantly posting about the music industry...blah blah, when from where i'm sitting I don't even see how you're a part of the music industry. I believe your sitting on the sideline wanting to be in it (just like myself btw). But unless you're a signed band, endorsed by some gear companies, sent work from labels and are being sent passes to NAMM etc, I think that just indicates a desire to be in the industry. I'm in a band, play shows, get paid, have done a couple recordings but don't consider myself as "in the industry". I thnk Steve Albini has more right to speak of the industry in that regard.

I have no problem with anyone having an opinion on any subject matter. Only when it's presented with an "i'm so much better than everyone, and you are just too blind to see" type attitude.

 

[Ermz]

Your skills of comprehension are impressive. I can see you actually read anything I've written here beyond what's conducive to you in constructing this delusional argument.

@Jind: The 'let live' argument is respectable. But ultimately apathy doesn't move us anywhere. We can close our eyes and pretend our woes or aspects of the world, our industry, whatever don't bother us, but that doesn't mean they will iron themselves out. This is a discussion forum, so it's a fair place to discuss these things, and it does seem a great many people agree with the fundamental message, including the proprietor of the forum.

 

[nwright]

Nate, are you honestly defending the approach of using presets over making a calculated effort to constantly re-invent your own personal wheel?
Seriously?

Not at all, I'm defending the approach that people can do whatever the fuck they want, and it seems childish to point out the obvious notion that *gasp* some bands some pretty darn similar...And, IMO, some AE's have taken that angle and desire (again, by the bands) to use similar setups and techniques in their work. Again, so what?

Far be it from any of us to tell another AE what he should or should not be doing in his work, or their goals.

It's one thing to say "yeah, I don't care for that style" or "I don't care for that mix, not my taste". It's another thing completely to try and belittle others for it. But you seem to like going about it that way, so far be it from me to stop you.

Personally, for myself, and only myself, I'd rather be "known" or attain success for being a good engineer/producer. As far as what that entails, be it originality, reinvention, or bandwagoning, I'd say it all comes down to the bands I'd choose to work with and the results we would be able to achieve. And while one project may be completely different, I would be opposed to working with a band that sounded like another band and I used similar techniques. I'd think that would be the case for most of us, meeting in the middle?

 

[nwright]

@Jind: The 'let live' argument is respectable. But ultimately apathy doesn't move us anywhere. We can close our eyes and pretend our woes or aspects of the world, our industry, whatever don't bother us, but that doesn't mean they will iron themselves out. This is a discussion forum, so it's a fair place to discuss these things, and it does seem a great many people agree with the fundamental message, including the proprietor of the forum.

You really think that allowing others the freedom to do what they want is apathetic? I'd like to think that it is quite the opposite, even if their goals are not to attain singularity.

Once the new flavor of the month comes around, everyone will al be using new templates and samples and you'll have a few months to let it all soak in before you get tired of it, so everyone just calm down.

 

[Force666]

Your skills of comprehension are impressive. I can see you actually read anything I've written here beyond what's conducive to you in constructing this delusional argument.

I have. And that's not what i'm addressing. I'm addressing the snobby attitude behind the posts. But thanks for clarifying my opinion with your "witty retort".

 

[John_C]

Guys, why are you wasting your time?

Some people would rather fit the status quo successfully than innovate with all the hard work and risk that has associated with it.

Some people are dedicated to finding new things and being original, others care more about having food on the table.

Also, isn't it acceptable to start out copying others so as one day you will be in a good position to successfully express your own, new, ideas.

 

[Jevil]

First of all, in my honest opinion, whatevercore sucks.

Well, now, I'm gonna say that in the music industry only few bands are really originals, but, at least, if you do not invent anything new do it right and with taste and personality. Eerrrr.... fuck... I hate when i cannot express myself in my own language... otherwise i would convince you all that my way of thinking is the total truth and the only.

 

[Jaymz]

This thread has too much talk of "cookie-cutters"....


















ITS BISCUITS!!

 

[John_C]

This thread has too much talk of "cookie-cutters"....

ITS BISCUITS!!

guilty as charged

 

[Jind]

Ermz - I agree with you - this is a place to discuss such things, but discussion is just that - talk. Talk is worth only about the breath it takes to say it. Action speaks a lot louder than words. We have very few things we actually control in life and actions are probably the most valuable of those few items - you want change - be the catalyst of change. Be original in your own work as I highly doubt you will convince others that they are doing anything wrong. That's all I'm trying to say - so much effort is wasted on trying to get others to change when we ourselves are the only thing we truly control. I'm with you Ermz in the belief that many are just lemmings following the pack, I think that's quite obvious. Will it change? Has it ever changed? Or - perhaps as Andy pointed out - is it simply the end stages of this cyclical round of music (I tend to think this as fads come and go.) The next musical "Original Thought" will get copied and repeated until it becomes trite and contrived - it's just the way it is. Original thinkers don't need groups to believe what they are saying as it only matters if they believe in themselves.

 

[plague_rider]

I can't see how people can pigeon hole their entire bands sound to a single or small group of bands they've heard from the same genre...

I hear so many different aspects i like to pick out of different bands/albums/songs

I'll sit there and think "that general sound is awesome" and/or (example)"that snare could be different"/"that snare is the only part of that song i like"

 

[462studio]

I couldn't read the entire thread...but..

People are idiots.

People buy the albums or shirts, or something that keeps these bands in enough money to pay for recording services... So whatever they want is the 'most popular'.

People are idiots, so the popular music tends to suck a little bit of ass.

The only way to get some street cred as an engineer/producer is to engineer or produce ass music, because people are idiots, and they like ass music.

So Ermin might is probably rightfully slightly jealous of the other engineers that are getting more credit, because they are producing what is well known and popular and sounds like everything else..and not necessarily good or original.

I mean. in the 80s, I'm pretty sure everyones slap bracelets were pretty much the same. Those were REALLY popular.

People are idiots.

Just saying.