all_sins_undone
New Metal Member
- Oct 5, 2005
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As long as you don't listen to the snare drum, i think...uke:
isnt that still life?
Steven Wilson as opeth's producer
- Thread starter nadavnaz
- Start date
isnt that still life?
Why won't someone open a poll over which opeth producer he prefers the most? (since I can't do that with my level)
Don Corleone
Emre
ometh
Member
- Nov 12, 2006
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nah. steve wilson for the win. swano production sounds slightly weak and thin imo...........whereas wilson's work on bwp and d/d has a really rich and lush sound to it.
S<issors
wins.
- Jan 16, 2007
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Ermz
¯\(°_o)/¯
It's hard to gauge without knowing the extent of Steven's involvement with Opeth. I think the album's that he produced ended up getting a very distinct Porcupine Tree vibe. There are sections very reminiscent of things PT have done on In Absentia. One very notable one is the clean, harmony vocal section in the middle of Master's Apprentice. The chorus to Bleak also springs deja vu etc.
I liked what Opeth were able to achieve with the dude who did Ghost Reveries, even if most of it was self-produced. I think Opeth are at a stage where they don't really need an outside, 3rd party influence telling them what direction to take their albums. Mike is more than musically mature enough to produce his own stuff.
I liked what Opeth were able to achieve with the dude who did Ghost Reveries, even if most of it was self-produced. I think Opeth are at a stage where they don't really need an outside, 3rd party influence telling them what direction to take their albums. Mike is more than musically mature enough to produce his own stuff.
You're right about the fact that there was a bit PT in BWP and Delive-damnation... But I think I really liked it. It wasn't at all porcupine tree songs, simply had steven's influence which added a lot... Like some songs when he made multiple voices, (a fair judgment for example, there's a part there: "Lost track of time, in the florious smoke. Waiting anxiety, a fair judgement is served". Where steven sing multiple harmonies over mikes voice, and it sounds amazing!). It was beutiful to my opinion.
Deliverance and Blackwater Park are atmospheric indeed. Ghost Reveries is not. I agree with the previous comments to that effect.
biggsy
New Metal Member
Moonie as always is spot on. SW is infamous for affecting the sound of albums he produces for other bands. If Mike could just have a word to Steve and say, "Look, just produce, no experimenting," then maybe it could work out. But somehow I think that won't happen.
Netherworld
Industrial Twilight
He does a good job with what he has done, but possibly he should be less involved with the final sound.
in_absentia
Aurora Borealis
I actually quite liked his involvement on the final sound, i liked the whole experimenting as well as producing, i mean i can't complain, look at the final products.
Ermz
¯\(°_o)/¯
Well there may be a common misconception about what a producer actually does, so I think I'll clarify that here before the thread goes any further.
It's the job of the producer to affect the band's sound. The producer is essentially in charge of gluing together all the ideas that form the band's music, and shaping them into a powerful, cohesive and catchy/accessible (in other realms of music) force through whatever means necessary.
It's not uncommon for producers to suggest alterations to arrangements, overdub sections, or to flat out tell the band to alter their delivery of a certain part.
As such I don't really blame Steven for some of the sections/songs taking on a distinct PT vibe, and moreso I'm not even saying it's a bad thing that they do. That's just his style of writing and production, of course it's going to rub off on Opeth when they welcome him with both arms open and say 'we value your creative input'. Of course you're going to get the multiple part harmonies over acoustic guitars and other PT trademarks.
So to sum up and relate this to your post: Production is about experimentation. You can't really take the one away from the other, as they're intrinsically intertwined. It's about giving the artist a 3rd perspective and perhaps opening up their songs in ways that they never imagined. They're usually so close and attached to the material that they aren't able to perceive it from an outside perspective.
What you may be thinking of is somebody just being confined to sound engineering duties, which consist of essentially helping the band pull sounds that translate well on recording, and overseeing the technical side of the process (ie. hitting space bar and numpad 3 very often on ProTools).
Traditionally the producer and sound engineer had distinctly different duties in recording sessions. As time has worn on, the 'Producer' tag has come to encompass somebody who handles the technical side of the process, as well as doing all the creative/guidance stuff with the artist that's usually associated with a producer. Keep in mind that this is not always the case.. especially in larger-budget productions where there are two seperate people, who handle Production and Sound Engineering respectively. It's important to know the distinction before commenting on the extent of their influence on the product.
Ermz
¯\(°_o)/¯
I figure I should add that I really enjoyed Steven's contribution to the Damnation record.
I just looked at the booklet and realized that as well as producing, he engineered, mixed and mastered the entire thing. To this day, Damnation IMO is Opeth's best 'sounding' record from a technical and production standpoint.
I think the ideal thing for Opeth to do for their next release is to get Steven to produce it (and I mean just produce) but get a more metal savvy guy to do the engineering and mixing. That way you get all the little flourishes that Steven would add, but with the power and precision of a proper metal mix (like what was done with Ghost Reveries, or hell even something like what Andy did with Deliverance).... and yes I do realize that this totally contradicts what I was saying earlier about Opeth being able to produce themselves... I don't know.. I just can't keep a single track of mind lately, haha.
I just looked at the booklet and realized that as well as producing, he engineered, mixed and mastered the entire thing. To this day, Damnation IMO is Opeth's best 'sounding' record from a technical and production standpoint.
I think the ideal thing for Opeth to do for their next release is to get Steven to produce it (and I mean just produce) but get a more metal savvy guy to do the engineering and mixing. That way you get all the little flourishes that Steven would add, but with the power and precision of a proper metal mix (like what was done with Ghost Reveries, or hell even something like what Andy did with Deliverance).... and yes I do realize that this totally contradicts what I was saying earlier about Opeth being able to produce themselves... I don't know.. I just can't keep a single track of mind lately, haha.
I'd like that to (that's all the threasd's about actually lol). Unfortunatley I don't see it coming, seeing sw is a pretty busy guy
FuneralPortrait
Member
- Nov 20, 2005
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I think the reason the term 'producer' has been so blurred in peoples minds is because when talking about an albums sound/mixing, you refer to it as it's production...
SW talent is in both mixing and production. I'd much rather hear the BWP mix than the GR mix, even though GR has a bit more punch.
I don't know why you wouldn't like the snare in BWP, I love it. Has quite a ring, but it fits. It is a bit overcompressed at times though.
The mixing of Deliverance isn't very nice... Except for the beautiful clean vocal production, it definitely has quite a few faults.
The 'sound' of Damnation over all is very good- though the actual drum sound is pretty fucked, and it's pretty badly mastered... (too much compression, audible low-end distortion etc...)
GR doesn't have the subtleties that SW is so good at- and as many people have said, its too pristine.. too polished.. etc. Jens didn't really acheive the Opeth studio sound, but he gets a great sound with individual instruments. (If only those drums hadn't been all quantized... and theres some obvious Auto-tuning there too... quite expected for a young producer, I guess...). I don't think Jens has the muscial knowledge that some other producers have either, for example, the vocal line at the start of Baying of the Hounds clashes with the guitars/ bass... which SW probably wouldn't have allowed.
I think Opeth have yet to achieve the perfect album in all aspects- and I think with SW on board as producer they could achieve it.
SW talent is in both mixing and production. I'd much rather hear the BWP mix than the GR mix, even though GR has a bit more punch.
I don't know why you wouldn't like the snare in BWP, I love it. Has quite a ring, but it fits. It is a bit overcompressed at times though.
The mixing of Deliverance isn't very nice... Except for the beautiful clean vocal production, it definitely has quite a few faults.
The 'sound' of Damnation over all is very good- though the actual drum sound is pretty fucked, and it's pretty badly mastered... (too much compression, audible low-end distortion etc...)
GR doesn't have the subtleties that SW is so good at- and as many people have said, its too pristine.. too polished.. etc. Jens didn't really acheive the Opeth studio sound, but he gets a great sound with individual instruments. (If only those drums hadn't been all quantized... and theres some obvious Auto-tuning there too... quite expected for a young producer, I guess...). I don't think Jens has the muscial knowledge that some other producers have either, for example, the vocal line at the start of Baying of the Hounds clashes with the guitars/ bass... which SW probably wouldn't have allowed.
I think Opeth have yet to achieve the perfect album in all aspects- and I think with SW on board as producer they could achieve it.
Ermz
¯\(°_o)/¯
Keep in mind that Opeth produced GR, not Jens. The prolific use of autotune was likely a conscious choice by Mike and the guys. Remember the first documentary, where Mike and Steve are adding those harmonies to the clean section of MA? 'It's good... it just needs a bit of tuning etc.'. They were obviously talking about pitch correction. Opeth were doing it before Jens came into the picture.
It's funny you mention overcompression and low end distortion on Damnation. I can't really say I've noticed.... any more so than any other modern release at least. The bass is actually quite modestly compressed compared to the hip-hop synthbass/808 kick stuff, as well as modern rock where the low-end gets slammed to living hell and back (Nickelback are a prime example).
If anything it's BWP that suffers from bad mastering. I've actually had that album clip a number of stereo systems, and the overcompression is so audible that it causes ear fatigue with prolonged listening.
I think GR had pretty crappy sounding individual elements that created a nice tapestry when summed. That basically satisfies the main criteria of mixing.
It's funny you mention overcompression and low end distortion on Damnation. I can't really say I've noticed.... any more so than any other modern release at least. The bass is actually quite modestly compressed compared to the hip-hop synthbass/808 kick stuff, as well as modern rock where the low-end gets slammed to living hell and back (Nickelback are a prime example).
If anything it's BWP that suffers from bad mastering. I've actually had that album clip a number of stereo systems, and the overcompression is so audible that it causes ear fatigue with prolonged listening.
I think GR had pretty crappy sounding individual elements that created a nice tapestry when summed. That basically satisfies the main criteria of mixing.
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