still having problems with reamping (profire 610 related)

[Fragle]

hey there,

i already opened a thread about this a few weeks ago.

basically, the problem is that i'm not getting enough output level out of the profire 610, and therefore not enough gain from the amp.

i already ruled out the reamper, as i've initially thought the radial proRMP was the culprit, but since then i bought a radial x-amp and i'm still getting the same issues.

to make a long story short, it seems to me that i'm only getting -10db level out of the profire rather than the "pro" +4db line level.

moreover, raising the send level in reaper only clips the D/A converter, but does not give me more output level coming out of the profire's physical output.

for example, even with the send level cranked all the way i can't get the x-amps clip LED to light up...shouldn't be normal right?

any ideas why this could be???

 

[GuitarHack]

I have never seen the Clip LED on on my x-amp either, even with a red hot signal.

What level do you get when you do a loopback test (feed the x-amps output back into the 610) compared to the level you get with a guitar plugged into that same 610 Input with the preamp level set the same?

 

[Fragle]

good idea!
will go and check it right now....stay tuned

 

[GuitarHack]

I am holding my breath in anticipation..............

 

[Fragle]

alright, here you go:

guitar plugged directl into profire input 1 (hiZ); preamp level all the way down (flat basically) = peaking around -2 to -3db
profire output 3 plugged directly into input 1, playing prerecorded DI (send level flat, pan flat, pan in control panel hard left (most volume) = peaking around -6db
profire out 3 into x-amp into input 1 (levels as above, volume on x-amp cranked) = peaking around -20db (!)

no surprise i'm not getting decent saturation.

btw, i'm using a balanced TRS -> XLR cable to connect the profire to the xamp.
before that i used a unbalanced TS -> XLR cable, same results though.

keep in mind, i had the exact same problems with the pro RMP, so i doubt the reamper is the culprit.

 

[Fragle]

just did another test:

plugged my guitar directly into the sansamp (set to patch 00, flat basically) and checked the level = -2db
plugged the profire output 3 directly into the sansamp - level = also -2db

the tone is weaker though, i guess due to the impedance mismatch.

so, what do i have here?
normally the interface outs should be too hot for directly connecting to an amp, plus it's the wrong impedance.
you get an reamper to a) adjust the impedance and b) lower the level so that it's the same as you'd get from a guitar.

now, i AM getting the same level WITHOUT the reamper, which means that the interface output signal is too QUIET.

together with the other test i did above it seems as if the interface output is about 20db too quiet....does it?

so...wtf???

 

[Fragle]

and btw, i just noticed that i get quite an awful lot of 60hz hum with the 5150 (not with the sansamp strangely enough), even with the ground lift engaged.

 

[AudioGeekZine]

Fragle, in the control panel for the Profire, you have to disable the master volume knob for output 3-4


but maybe you already knew that

 

[Fragle]

thanks for the answer, but i already did that.
besides, the master volume pot is cranked anyways, so the signal should be at full volume either way.
but well, it's not

seriously thinking about returning the profire and getting a friends fireface 400...but then again, that would be a waste of money if the problem lies elsewhere.

 

[AudioGeekZine]

and the cable from the profire to the ProRMP/x-amp is a 1/4" TRS to XLR?

I've got the 2626, but I don't have a reamper, or any amps worth going into.

 

[Fragle]

yes, it is.
although using an unbalanced TS -> XLR doesn't make any difference.

 

[ze kink]

Have you tried asking at the M-audio forum? They'd probably know better.

 

[Metaltastic]

and btw, i just noticed that i get quite an awful lot of 60hz hum with the 5150 (not with the sansamp strangely enough), even with the ground lift engaged.

Yup, the ground lift never helps, you gotta get yourself an isolation transformer! Ebtech Hum Eliminator FTW

 

[Fragle]

i sent an email to m-audio customer support, no reply so far.

i'll also go and post on their forum though

 

[::XeS::]

Anyway, the 610's control panel is different that the 2626's...
I'm still convinced that the problem is in the control panel.....a silly thing probably.

ps
Is the DI's track control fader at 0?

 

[Fragle]

yes, it is. the send is pre fader/pre fx though, so it's not active for that one. but then again, i also tried a post fader send, same result unfortunately.

actually, i already imported one of the DIs into cubase, set up the routing etc, but the level still doesnt change.
my thought was that maybe there's a setting somewhere in reaper that fucks with the routing to the physical outs. nope, same thing in cubase.

 

[Fragle]

alright, a friend of mine is going to borrow me his fireface 400 (which is for sale btw) today....let's see whether it works with that one or not.

if so, byebye profire.

if not, well, that'd be the proof that i'm just a stupid hack lol

 

[::XeS::]

I'm curious

 

[Fragle]

alright, just did a quick test with the RME.

at first i had the same problem as with the profire....HOWEVER (and thats a big one in my book), setting the output level on the RME settings panel to high gain rather than +4db SOLVED it.

the ground loop thing was also gone btw.

i quickly tested it with both the sansamp and my 5150, and it performed great with both.
while i was at it i also reamped a short clip using the RME mic pre, and that one sounded really good as well.


but guys, to be honest i'm still in shock and awe how much better the rme CONVERTERS are.....i was under the impression that the m-audio ones are at least comparable.....but damn, there's just no comparison.
m audio sounds brittle and thin, whereas the RME has a thick bottom end, smooth highs, great pronounced midrange....

tbh i'm not sure whether i'm supposed to set the output level to high gain even with the RME....but then again, if it solves the problem (or at least provides a workaround) i'm a happy camper...and those converters....holy christ.

profire is soon to be gone.....the RME stays.

 

[::XeS::]

Or buy a good profire 2626