Stop piracey with advertising ???
- Thread starter James-Doolan
- Start date
Kazrog
Kazrog, Inc.
This has been gone over before, but I'll chime in again...
Guys, a lot of bands are selling full-resolution albums online. Including my band, BACKMASK - we offer both FLAC and Apple Lossless in addition to regular mp3.
CDs are dead and if bands and labels don't start getting creative with new business models, the massive sales plummet, and the perception of music as a dying industry will persist. Sure, none of us here like having our music stolen, and most of us here probably don't steal music (or we at least buy the leaked albums we download after they come out, etc.), but we're the minority and nothing is going to change that. Piracy is a faceless crime and it can't be enforced without turning the USA or any other country that attempts enforcement into a police state. Advertising is definitely something that can work and there are a lot of ways in which that itself can be done - from obnoxious audio ads to simple banner ads, or more blended approaches.
I don't know if we're going to see a single business model skyrocket above the rest for a few years. The best thing labels and bands can do is experiment and fail fast. That is - test new business models, if they fail, kill them quickly and analyze the pros/cons of that failing model. If they succeed, continue to evolve and iterate. The quickest path to permanent failure is to try to force the old model onto the new context. The labels that cling on to the old model for dear life and try to sue and lobby to save it are going to die off and get bought out for pennies on the dollar, most likely by technology companies.
Recommended reading:
Guys, a lot of bands are selling full-resolution albums online. Including my band, BACKMASK - we offer both FLAC and Apple Lossless in addition to regular mp3.
CDs are dead and if bands and labels don't start getting creative with new business models, the massive sales plummet, and the perception of music as a dying industry will persist. Sure, none of us here like having our music stolen, and most of us here probably don't steal music (or we at least buy the leaked albums we download after they come out, etc.), but we're the minority and nothing is going to change that. Piracy is a faceless crime and it can't be enforced without turning the USA or any other country that attempts enforcement into a police state. Advertising is definitely something that can work and there are a lot of ways in which that itself can be done - from obnoxious audio ads to simple banner ads, or more blended approaches.
I don't know if we're going to see a single business model skyrocket above the rest for a few years. The best thing labels and bands can do is experiment and fail fast. That is - test new business models, if they fail, kill them quickly and analyze the pros/cons of that failing model. If they succeed, continue to evolve and iterate. The quickest path to permanent failure is to try to force the old model onto the new context. The labels that cling on to the old model for dear life and try to sue and lobby to save it are going to die off and get bought out for pennies on the dollar, most likely by technology companies.
Recommended reading:
MetalWorks
Member
They aren't taking money directly from the band, but they are taking potential sales from the band.
And that really sucks for bands that are obligated to sell a certain amount of CD's to pay back the label before they start seeing a dime from album sales.
Used CD's being resold dont matter because the Band or Label has already got their cut from the first time it sold.
+1000 i agree and if i knew dick about setting up a download site i would try this idea out maybe in the future i will i would imagine it would be expensive though
Yes, but I'm saying that used CD's also take potential sales from the band, cuz the label/band may get money from Person A buying the CD new, but when Person B buys it used from Person A, that's a potential sale the label/band could have had to Person B.
MetalWorks
Member
_RiseInside_
Member
Just to re-state that Amazon Marketplace is really nice. I mostly buy cds, books and dvds @ the UK Amazon Marketplace since I live in Europe.
theblackmoon
Casa Negra
We (humans) are all corrupt, piracy will never end. Forget it.
I don´t know, I´ve visited a few studios this week, they all have clients, budgets in here are actually increasing. I´m booked ´til february. This is not the end of music industry, and obviously not the end of music. Some clients actually say that tried to record their band full lenght in their home and well... it turned like crap. Why? Because you can´t compare a weekend warrior with a professional, and bands know that at the moment they A/B their work, with say... Andy Sneap.
There are still $500.000,00 budgets, $1.000.000,00 advances, labels don´t get money only by selling cds. Merch still sells, labels get a good % from concerts, videos, advertising...
Just my opinion.
I don´t know, I´ve visited a few studios this week, they all have clients, budgets in here are actually increasing. I´m booked ´til february. This is not the end of music industry, and obviously not the end of music. Some clients actually say that tried to record their band full lenght in their home and well... it turned like crap. Why? Because you can´t compare a weekend warrior with a professional, and bands know that at the moment they A/B their work, with say... Andy Sneap.
There are still $500.000,00 budgets, $1.000.000,00 advances, labels don´t get money only by selling cds. Merch still sells, labels get a good % from concerts, videos, advertising...
Just my opinion.
pretty far off the mark blackmoon.... oh you're right about there still being work and budgets.. and that's because i'm right.. the labels are currently still with us and will be for the foreseeable future... i have said that many times, in this thread even.. and several others.... so i if that was meant to "inform me", you got me way wrong. i just sick of hearing people trying to justify, because there's no justification and piracy is hurting... not enough to kill the labels ... certainly not just yet....but that's because the damage hits the most vulnerable first: the artists.
where you are wrong is that labels can or even do survive off merch sales and concerts, or videos.... or advertising (that one really puzzled me). only the big indies take any merch percentage....and majors don't at all.... same thing with concert percentages.... it is very rare for the label to ever get anything from show advances.. it happens, it's just rare and certainly cannot support the industry. Videos and advertising COST the label money.. they don't really earn unless they do their job, which is quite simply to sell the CDs (or iTunes downloads).... unless the vids are sold by download and/or DVDs/enhanced CDs. in fact, videos are a big part of publicity budgets, and the video content is more often than not bundled with the CD releases as "bonus" content.
labels stay afloat by selling CD's.... and that is how they are surviving now. CD's are only down... depending on how you spin the numbers.. somewhere between 15% - 20%...... and margins are such that it has indeed led to a tightening of the belts.... which means one thing and one thing only.... artists are paying for piracy. when it dips to 30% and less.. we will begin to see catastrophic results... and the budgets will indeed then start to disappear.
this "humans are all corrupt" cop-out is weak..... and if you live under that credo in every or any other aspect of your life, well.... "see ya, wouldn't wanna be ya", and "sucks to be you" are two nuggets that come to mind.
Edit: i just noticed you live in Brazil actually... yeah, i can see where you're coming from a bit more.. piracy is far more rampant in south america and eastern europe, and always has been (i remember bootleg disincarnate cd's .. the album, not live boots... being pretty prevalent in those regions of the globe going back to '93. And Death and Obituary boots even earlier, back to '89. it's still not legal though, and still hurts. live shows do not cover album recording, mixing, mastering, manufacturing, or marketing budgets.
where you are wrong is that labels can or even do survive off merch sales and concerts, or videos.... or advertising (that one really puzzled me). only the big indies take any merch percentage....and majors don't at all.... same thing with concert percentages.... it is very rare for the label to ever get anything from show advances.. it happens, it's just rare and certainly cannot support the industry. Videos and advertising COST the label money.. they don't really earn unless they do their job, which is quite simply to sell the CDs (or iTunes downloads).... unless the vids are sold by download and/or DVDs/enhanced CDs. in fact, videos are a big part of publicity budgets, and the video content is more often than not bundled with the CD releases as "bonus" content.
labels stay afloat by selling CD's.... and that is how they are surviving now. CD's are only down... depending on how you spin the numbers.. somewhere between 15% - 20%...... and margins are such that it has indeed led to a tightening of the belts.... which means one thing and one thing only.... artists are paying for piracy. when it dips to 30% and less.. we will begin to see catastrophic results... and the budgets will indeed then start to disappear.
this "humans are all corrupt" cop-out is weak..... and if you live under that credo in every or any other aspect of your life, well.... "see ya, wouldn't wanna be ya", and "sucks to be you" are two nuggets that come to mind.
Edit: i just noticed you live in Brazil actually... yeah, i can see where you're coming from a bit more.. piracy is far more rampant in south america and eastern europe, and always has been (i remember bootleg disincarnate cd's .. the album, not live boots... being pretty prevalent in those regions of the globe going back to '93. And Death and Obituary boots even earlier, back to '89. it's still not legal though, and still hurts. live shows do not cover album recording, mixing, mastering, manufacturing, or marketing budgets.
theblackmoon
Casa Negra
I did not want to "inform you" or anybody. I´m just seeing a brighter future ahead, I believe sales will go up, and with internet getting faster and portable players having more space, file compression will no longer be necessary, and quality will not be overlooked. I obviously do not agree with free music, I´m an AE 24/7, if the boat sanks I´ll drown too. Don´t get me wrong. As far as label income, big artists are closing album + tour deals, with advances to both the label and the artist, concert producers pay upfront. When I mentioned advertising I was thinking artist X doing a mobile phone advertising, being paid for that, and % to the label and artist X manager.
I don´t know if I´m being clear thou, english is not my first language.
I don´t know if I´m being clear thou, english is not my first language.
theblackmoon
Casa Negra
And I still believe we´re all corrupt, I don´t steal because I don´t have to, because my life led me to a position where stealing can´t be justified. But I live in a place where there´s no space for judgement, I won´t even discuss this with somebody that does not see the reality of a country that has people starving to death on a daily basis. I do, we live a diferent reality James, nevermind...
your post was at 9:23... please see my edit, which posted at 9:22.
and yes, i understand you more clearly now regarding advertising and "package deals" with concert tours tied in.. those type of package deals are not prevalent here. Madonna and the like are getting them... so it's really more legacy/prestige artists like that that are getting these types of deals.... artists that are guaranteed to sell out arenas.... and the ticket prices go through the roof with these deals. the cell phone downloads are not exactly supporting the industry.... and won't ever do so ... especially with hacker nerds already cracking these phones and adding stolen music for free... so jury's still out on that one.
theblackmoon
Casa Negra
One of the problems is that music being digital is very easy to share, or burn cds or whatever. Books does not have such a problem, although there is some book piracy. While artists are suffering for a label is *not such a big deal* but *if* that margin you said drops to 30% than they will find a way to revert the situation, big labels are still very powerful.
theblackmoon
Casa Negra
theblackmoon
Casa Negra
Actually is 15 thousand. Hey, it´s getting closer to Thriller, right?
What they do a lot in Brasil is that if a mainstream artist sold 2.000 copies in a week, they (whoever gives gold/platinum records) think "well, if he sold 2.000 in a week it will be 8.000 just in the first month, plus the ones he *would* have sold if piracy did not exist than it is about 18.000! hey, let´s give him a gold record right away!"
What they do a lot in Brasil is that if a mainstream artist sold 2.000 copies in a week, they (whoever gives gold/platinum records) think "well, if he sold 2.000 in a week it will be 8.000 just in the first month, plus the ones he *would* have sold if piracy did not exist than it is about 18.000! hey, let´s give him a gold record right away!"
