Stupid musical cliches

[Iron-Flames]

Playing fast is a talent in itself.

 

[Manbient]

Wow.

I have something to say about innate ability, though. My bass teacher has been telling me since day 1 that the idea of "innate talent" is bullshit. He is his own proof. He tells me that he could not play worth shit for two years when he started playing bass and guitar, but he practiced his fucking ass off and now he's really, really, really, really, really fucking good.

how do you explain peopel getting better faster? people who DIDN'T have to work their ass off quite as hard for the same results? obvously anything REALLY elite requires a lot of hard work, no way around it... but some people get more done with less work...

 

[Iron-Flames]

It depends on what you see as talent. Some people think growling requires no talent at all. I beg to differ.

Some people think death metal is just blind talentless bullshit. I beg to differ.

Depends on what you think talent is.

If you judge a bands talent by their ability to make music as a BAND that you enjoy...or if the band has to play in a certain time sig for you...they have to be technicaly good to be talented...

Depends.

 

[ChromeLife]

If art took no talent, EVERYONE who tried any kind of art would succeed. Because they wouldn't need any kind of natural ability.

How is success measured ?

 

[Orion Crystal Ice]

Number four on my list is so ingrained into the brains of the sheeplike, robotic metalhead community that it is almost disgusting. The next time some moron says "wow, that is fast! he is a very skilled guitar player" I am going to flip out.

Sort of how I'll flip out if someone says "OMG WTF ALL HE DOES IS PLAY FAST AND IS TEH WANKING NO EMOTION!!111?" simply cause someone has fast material. It's nothing but preconception. Most people don't even LISTEN to music in the first place, they simply hear it. And I fail to see how any one speed of playing defines emotion. Of course this means nothing to most people who are convinced of otherwise.

 

[Iron-Flames]

Damn commies.

 

[Manbient]

How is success measured ?

I believe success is measured by the impact you had on the person who most appreciates your work.

 

[ggggggu]

SPEED = EMOTION
FAT = MOTION

If you don't believe me, watch this instructional guitar video http://myy.helia.fi/~multis9/BTS2lo.avi

It's quite big, but really entertaining.

 

[Orion Crystal Ice]

2. Talent is the most important thing in music.

Again, this is false... many bands have made excellent music without having any real talent.

3. Songwriting is the most important thing in music.

Songwriting is important, no doubt about it, but some rare bands have made excellent music without a handle on songwriting. Much more rare than a fairly talentless band making good music, this one is actually valid at times.

4. Playing fast = talent.

This is actually the inverse of reality, slower more emotional music is far more talented than fast, wanking music.

I disagree with these.

2. You point out bands have made excellent music without "talent". So, then......how did they make it? This statement is only logical in a completely opinionated perception of what "talent" is.
3. I only agree with this in the case of a good "jam" band. Otherwise, it is the same as above - a personal opinion defining the parameters of songwriting in order to make an erronous point. For example many people wouldn't call say, Morningrise, or A Sceptic's Universe albums of SONGWRITING, because they're not all the traditional definition of songwriting, however they are still good songwriting.
4. Both sides are the inverse of reality, slower does not mean more emotional and faster does not mean emotionless. The only way this is logical is if one's emotions are limited, because slower music usually carries emotions more on the spectrum of sorrow, grief, and so on, and so that will be the easiest recognizable. Neither side carries more talent either, only in the performances by themselves is there more or less talent.

 

[Thorns of Sorrow]

crap, I swear I could feel how my neurons went dying the moment I started reading this thread...

My sentiments EXACTLY.

 

[Thorns of Sorrow]

Well ill just relate some of my most hates musical cliches whence actually writing music...

1.) I hate 4/4 I hate it..Nothing i write is in 4/4 I cant possibly write in 4, everything I write is in 15, 7, or 6. Whenever i write in 4 I feel like it sounds like shit, I can never think of ANYTHING cool when I have to write in that meter. It like comes out sounding like boring Pantera or Metallica nonsence. I envy those who can write cool stuff in that meter...

2.) "Drop D is for nu metal fags"...Grow the fuck up homofucks. Drop D can open ones playing up to a whole new set off riff and rythmic ideas, as well as being IMO more challenging to write something cool in Drop D, or even write something NOT in the key of D...Try it, its a bitch. Some exapmles of Drop D, "Home" by Dream theater, "Demon of teh Fall" - Opeth, "Blackest Eyes" - Porcupine Tree Alternate tunings rule if you bother to try em out, C#, open E, Drop D, all are awesome...The other thing is "7 strings are gay and are like Korn" If you cant for urself see the expansion of tonal ideas from having the extra B string, Im not going to even bother dispelling this reatrded cliche.

3.) "Everything in the mainstream sucks" Again grow up and take a listen to the stuff you dispell as stupid. Let me see YOU write a fucking riff better than "Face Pollution" by Soundgarden, or "46 and 2" by tool, or fucking "Interstate love song" by STP those are some amazing riffs, and GUESS WHAT! its in the mainstream you twatfucks.

4.) "The reason great underground bands never get signed is becuz the mainstream sucks, and people cant handle it" Thats PARTLY true...the MAIN reason IMO is that too much underground music has holes in it, its missing something. Dream theater, Cradle, Satyricon and some otehrs dint get signed to majors for nothing, they tweaked and polished their sound till it was good enough to be sold to the mass media. Guess what!? Opeth is mainstream, theres not one second hear in NYC that I dont turn on the local radio and hear some Opeths ong comming through. I mustve heard "To rid the disease" at work over 20 times alone over the course of the past two weeks on the radio. I am suprised Katatonias new album hasnt made it big...It also has to do with the record companies who sign these underground bands just dont have the money or resources to promote their groups, So they COULD get mainstream appeal. Opeth, Cradle, Dt etc etc dint bust the mainstream without some SERIOUS fan dedication and hardcore cult followings. The problem is alot of these underground bands dont have such strong cult followings, and record companies dont see the music as viable because well...Ill just say Novembers Doom which is great band only played to something like 10 people when they played NYC. I know for a fact their are alot of people that dig their music here in NYC, but they dont have that hard core cult following to draw a huge crowd whenever wherever. In contrast Opeth does, people would cancel their work day, ditch appointments just to see them. And you know what? people wouldd o the same for a mainsream festival like Ozzfest or Lollapalooza. Anyways this became a rant...

5.) neo classical metal - It could be so cool if they just fucking sitch the barouqe period already, and move on and explore Romanticism, or Modern composers like Shoenberg or Stravinsky.

Im done, and I dont care if dont agree with me.

 

[IanDork107]

Well, you sure as fuck make more sense than the bullshit first post in this thread.

 

[Belial]

I play piano and I can paint reasonably well. I can also write to a fair extent, but my real forte is with computers... but this isn't at all what I was talking about. To make a valid statement using a canvas and paint, you do not need talent whatsoever. Just look at Jackson Pollack.

So far, I have given concrete examples and everyone else has given conjecture. I win by default.

This is, by far, one of the most ignorant things I've seen on a message board. What "concrete" evidence have you given? None, from what I've read. You obviously have no fucking clue what you are talking about.

 

[Eno_Mun]

Speed = Emotion
Mighty have you seen the BTS guys in Antimeridiem?
Amazing flamenco styled guitars!

 

[Manbient]

heh... i'm suprised people know of Mr. Crab here.... i thought it was a John Petrucci Forum phenomenon

 

[Demonspell]

I agree that speed alone does not create great albums, or even ones that are repeatedly listenable. But minimal talent (something that cannot be measured without sacrificing some degree of objectivity) is a limitation, and poor songwriting more often than not leads to compositions lacking in focus and any lasting impact.

 

[Kate Bush Rules!]

This is not true. You do NOT need any talent whatsoever to paint and if you think you need any talent at all to play music, you've never heard The Sex Pistols before.

Stop pretending that you know anything about art.

The Sex Pistols are one of the most horrible-sounding bands I've ever herad.

 

[IanDork107]

Yes, the sex pistols may play music, but it's not art. It's fucking juvenile dickheads throwing temper tantrums.

 

[Stormwatch]

As much as I HATE to agree with ANYTHING LuminousAether says, I love the Sex Pistols album and "Pretty Vacant" is a classic tune.
That said, the entire premise behind this thread is fucking laughable.

 

[GreatPhoenix]

His musical equivalent is Merzbow. They make abrasive annoying formless noise and people actually buy it because they think they're deep to be able to get some kind of meaning out of worthless shit.

and his theatrical equivalent is David Lynch. Mulholland Drive anyone?