Summoning--Dol Guldur

[Armageddon's Child]

Burzum's music is much personal, nihilistic and anchored in the "I" and "We" point of view.

I would agree that Burzum is the more 'personal' project, which is precisely what we would expect from a one-man show. I would also agree that there is a slightly more 'nihilistic' slant to Burzum's music inasmuch as the nearness of death is central to the Burzum concept in a way it isn't with Summoning.

It is fueled by a social context.

Neither band is particulary tied to social context - except in the sense that by promoting ideals that constitute an implicit critique of the current society.

It is cold, raw and fundamentally hopeless (especially in the filosofem era).

I don't see Burzum as particularly hopeless - far from it. However, while both Summoning and Burzum are essentially working (conceptually) in the tradition of the heroic epic, Burzum emphasizes the tragic strain within that tradition, while Summoning emphasizes the triumphalist elements.

 

[Sadguru]

Neither band is particulary tied to social context - except in the sense that by promoting ideals that constitute an implicit critique of the current society.

Burzum is tied to Varg's personal outlook on society and the way he relates to it. It is undeniable. You already agreed that Burzum music is personal; his personal struggle can't be segregated from its social context. As I already pointed out, Summoning context is imaginary. It might or not be a metaphore for the current society, but that doesn't change the fact that the focus is on a fictionalized context put in a novelized fashion.

I don't see Burzum as particularly hopeless - far from it. However, while both Summoning and Burzum are essentially working (conceptually) in the tradition of the heroic epic, Burzum emphasizes the tragic strain within that tradition, while Summoning emphasizes the triumphalist elements.

I certainly do see Burzum as inescapably hopeless. That's were our disagreement mainly come from, I think.

 

[Armageddon's Child]

Burzum is tied to Varg's personal outlook on society and the way he relates to it. It is undeniable. You already agreed that Burzum music is personal; his personal struggle can't be segregated from its social context.

You can't completely seperate any art from its social context. However, with both Burzum and Summoning, the social critique is secondary to expressing ideals which are intended to be seen as eternal or universal.

As I already pointed out, Summoning context is imaginary.

So is Burzum's - the difference is that Varg creates his own (artistic) world to express his ideals rather than making use of an already existing fictional template.

 

[Sadguru]

Armageddon's Child,

I think you misunderstand my point. I'm saying that Burzum voices its music in a "I", "We" perspective that is fuel by varg's relation to his social context. On the other hand, Summoning music is impersonal in the sense that it communicates a perspective in a "it" fashion. I'm not saying that the context in Summoning's music is inexistant, but I'm saying it's written in a novelize "it" fashion.

Anyway, the core of this issue is that you don't see Burzum's music as particularly hopeless while I do. End.

 

[Armageddon's Child]

Armageddon's Child,

I think you misunderstand my point. I'm saying that Burzum voices its music in a "I", "We" perspective that is fuel by varg's relation to his social context.

Since when does the use of the third person disconnect a work of art from the social context in which it was conceived and created? Couching a belief or ideal in dispassionate or impersonal language doesn't make it any less a belief or ideal, nor does it cance the social context in which the belief is situated.

 

[Armageddon's Child]

And seriously, what do you find that is 'hopeless' in Burzum? Tragic? Yes. Aware of mortality and the futility of gesture? Yes. Hopeless? No.

 

[Sadguru]

I'm done with this discussion. I don't care enough to give further explanations.

 

[Demilich]

I would also agree that there is a slightly more 'nihilistic' slant to Burzum's music inasmuch as the nearness of death is central to the Burzum concept in a way it isn't with Summoning.

What exactly is 'nihilistic' about the nearness of death?

 

[Armageddon's Child]

What exactly is 'nihilistic' about the nearness of death?

Note the '...'

 

[Armageddon's Child]

I'm done with this discussion. I don't care enough to give further explanations.

Translation: you have no evidence.

 

[Demilich]

Note the '...'

Answer the ... 'question' ... please.

 

[Armageddon's Child]

Answer the ... 'question' ... please.

I already did. It's not my fault you didn't understand the answer.

 

[Kenneth R.]

this is what we call an impasse. when neither side has anything further to say or intention to discuss the matter openly, but instead focus on defending/walling themselves in. at this point, it is usually wise to step out of the conversation lest further time be wasted arguing between brick walls.

 

[Selkie]

I remember hearing the leak of the new album and thinking it was pretty dull, should I give that one anothor shot or try some other album?

 

[Armageddon's Child]

Oath Bound is great.

 

[Demilich]

I already did. It's not my fault you didn't understand the answer.

I understand that you didn't mean 'nihilistic' in a strict sense of the word, what I'd like to know is what exactly you DO mean... but oh wait, you're just SRP on a dummy account trying to make it look like someone gives a flying fuck about any of your convoluted nonsense.

 

[Kenneth R.]

Oh wait. What I said just now about two walls... One of them just got the shit kicked out of themselves. Bravo

 

[Armageddon's Child]

I understand that you didn't mean 'nihilistic' in a strict sense of the word, what I'd like to know is what exactly you DO mean... but oh wait, you're just SRP on a dummy account trying to make it look like someone gives a flying fuck about any of your convoluted nonsense.

Yeah, that's right, my five year old account is just a dummy for SRP. :Smug:

 

[Demilich]

Yeah, that's right, my five year old account is just a dummy for SRP. :Smug:

Whoever you are, you seem to be too dense to answer a simple question, preferring to dodge it with tired bullshit that reduces the value of your posts to no better than the above, if not actually the man himself.

 

[BloodSword]

Any fuckin' way, for me my only concern is for the music. It seems some think Summoning is NOT BM. Fine. I can accept differing opinions. But, does anyone have an intellectual answer as to what genre of music they should/could be placed in? Can we all agree that they are a Metal band? I think they sound like no other band in the metal realm, maybe classically arranged with a majestic, triumphant BM structure. If you subtract the vocals, I believe there is still a strong BM influence happening in the music.