Supreme Court rejects death penalty for raping children
- Thread starter Will Bozarth
- Start date
Kvlt Wench
sews no mercy
derek
Grey Eminence
The way you say it also sounds like abortion is just the next, completely unobjectionable step, in preventative methods.
I agree it's not a person under the legal definition, and I also agree that the social effects of unwanted children are horrible, but having an abortion is hardly like wiping the bacteria from a work top with antibacterial spray.
Kvlt Wench
sews no mercy
I think that's the way it should be if the child is completely unwanted, i.e. a couple's usual birth control method fails, or a woman is raped.
derek
Grey Eminence
I think rape is a obvious exception. I think there can be a suspension of whatever personal morals usually apply in cases of rape, regardless of what the Church says.
In situations where the pregnancy has occured because of failed birth control methods, it should not be considered in the dry way it often is, as simply the next preventative method. The impression I get from you is that it's exactly the same as a condom, the pill, the coil and other assorted means for avoiding pregnancy, and that's not how I could ever consider it. It's something entirely different as far as I'm concerned, something I'm not necessarily against, as I said, but that I believe warrants more thought.
In situations where the pregnancy has occured because of failed birth control methods, it should not be considered in the dry way it often is, as simply the next preventative method. The impression I get from you is that it's exactly the same as a condom, the pill, the coil and other assorted means for avoiding pregnancy, and that's not how I could ever consider it. It's something entirely different as far as I'm concerned, something I'm not necessarily against, as I said, but that I believe warrants more thought.
derek
Grey Eminence
Kvlt Wench
sews no mercy
(because you're not a woman and can never be impregnated and abandoned and left to care for an unwanted child by yourself)
WhiteBeastofWotan
Apostitutes!
derek
Grey Eminence
That is true. I'd also never tell a woman in that situation not to have an abortion, I'd only implore her to think about it (if I was asked, for I'm not in the habit of pronouncing my views on abortion to everyone, outside of a setting for discussion like this).
All I'm wanting to get across is that I think abortion is more than just another form of prevention. There is something slightly heavier about using it compared to condoms or other types of contraception.
All I'm wanting to get across is that I think abortion is more than just another form of prevention. There is something slightly heavier about using it compared to condoms or other types of contraception.
neal
wizard in black
i dont know how i feel 'morally' about terminating pregnancy, but i would much rather another child not come into the world than come into it unwanted, uncared for, and with high chances of becoming another worthless bum/loser/criminal/psycho cause mommy never loved them.
also, i dont want any kids, so if i get anyone knocked up, its Hoover time!
also, i dont want any kids, so if i get anyone knocked up, its Hoover time!
+1
Although, males in this case should not really be talking about abortion, because we don't bear the child. Isabel nailed on the head right there.
however, combining methods of birth control is more than 99.99% effective. Pill+condom=you won't have baby in a million years if both are properly used.
derek
Grey Eminence
That's a ridiculous statement, of course men can talk about abortion. Conventional pregnancy requires two, one of them being a male. By this silly argument women can never talk about testicular cancer, because they can never be diagnosed with it. That's transparently bullshit.
It's be arrogant to tell a woman what to do or not to do, or to ignore the effects upon her feelings that an abortion may cause, but to not be allowed to talk about it because we're male? C'mon.
It's be arrogant to tell a woman what to do or not to do, or to ignore the effects upon her feelings that an abortion may cause, but to not be allowed to talk about it because we're male? C'mon.
EricT
Don't you ever get...
Yeah, guess we shouldn't. That'd be totally WRONG. Instead we can talk about the many options that are presented to a woman as opposed to getting an abortion.
Don't get me wrong, I like the idea of a dead fetus, but for fucks sake, when it starts to hit 5 or 6 abortions, its time to deny those women abortions and teach them a bit about their choices in life and how it can affect them... If only just to subject them to the pains of labor (which yeah, wouldn't know anything about blah blah blah male chauvinist pig, blah blah blah) and then ship the kid off to a group of parents who will actually care for the child, and want the thing. Hell, with this whole push on gay marriage lately, there's a lot of fruits who want to raise a kid, and I say let em. There's also plenty of traditional couples who would be more than willing to take the kid off their hands.
Hell, we could even let them keep the kid, under close watch of child services. They can apply for a few of the many government programs that aid in helping mothers.
They'd be able to get even more money if we eliminated Death Row and Life Sentencing. The amount of money that shit clogs up is enough to raise many a healthy child in low income single mother circumstances.
Lord Foul
I don't spank men
I think I am on the same train of thought as you on this subject - I don't really have a moral standpoint on the rights of a fetus, but I do think that we have to consider the impact for society and culture when we decide that a fetus can be discarded as casually as can a used condom.
derek
Grey Eminence
Lord Foul
I don't spank men
I'm curious - Isabel, how do you envision the abortion-as-a-failsafe method of birth control working, ideally?
Lies and Perfidy
Gentleman of the Road
The abortion debate would be far less acrimonious and important if the US government provided proper sex education and birth control instead of the medieval mindset we're in right now. Abortion should continue to be legal because, like Neal said, the world does not need more fucked-up, uncared-for, accidental children. However, it's pretty clearly a traumatic experience and should be a last resort; hence the need for better pre-emptive birth control. Of all the harmful, idiotic policies of the W administration, their smugly sanctimonious attitude towards sex education at home and abroad is the most inexcusably petty, medieval, and downright mean. Abortion foes should embrace the condom. It's their best friend.
I don't see a moral disconnect between supporting reproductive rights and opposing the death penalty - it takes a lot more than basic bodily functions to be alive.
I don't see a moral disconnect between supporting reproductive rights and opposing the death penalty - it takes a lot more than basic bodily functions to be alive.
wildfyr
unus spiritus est
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