Sydney 'Race' Riots

[Dän]

As proably all Aussies will know and some international people, in Sydney, in particular Cronulla (A popular beach going area) there was race riots where about 5000 Australians rioted against people of Arab decent due to the bashing of 2 lifesavers. around 2 weeks ago.

I was just interested to see what the international response is to this; how much exposure it has got overseas and what are peoples views on these events.

It would also be good to hear what people from Aus have to say about it.

 

[speed]

As proably all Aussies will know and some international people, in Sydney, in particular Cronulla (A popular beach going area) there was race riots where about 5000 Australians rioted against people of Arab decent due to the bashing of 2 lifesavers. around 2 weeks ago.

I was just interested to see what the international response is to this; how much exposure it has got overseas and what are peoples views on these events.

It would also be good to hear what people from Aus have to say about it.

I never even saw it mentioned in the newspaper or on Television over here (America). I'm sure it got play in the NY Times.

 

[amaranth]

Yeah, it's a sucky time at the moment, although I'm not even in that state... but flag burning? It's crazy...

 

[Krigloch the Furious]

Im all for it. Chaos makes the world go round.

 

[Hubster]

Im all for it. Chaos makes the world go round.

All for it? Are you mad?

I happen to live in one of the effected areas (Bondi) and let me tell you it is no fun at all.

One of the best things about my country is that multiculturalism, I love it, especially where I live. Talking to a new person is like taking a plane flight to a new world: it's enlightening, knowledgable and interesting (not to mention, all the beautiful women of all parts of the world who I can see walking down my local streets every day).

However the situation from my POV (as an English-born full blooded Indian who moved to AU in 1983) has two sides:

1. The riots are purely digusting: the fact people want to argue about race superiority in this day and age is absolutely fucking pathetic. I would love to hit every racist and national socialist wanker myself, but I am a pacifist and dont believe in violence to solve problems. These simpletons need to be educated and learn to stop fearing change.

The situation has blinded many into thinking their friends could possibly be their enemies: at my local cafe, people would look with uncertainty at me (I am very tall, light skinned & angular for an Indian person, most assume I'm middle eastern or European) wondering if I was some "anti-white" super wog about to "bring in the boyz and crack some skulls".

I found this very upsetting - I experienced much racism until second last year of high school in the early 90s, and I thought then my experience of racial intolerance would be something I could forget about and lead a happy life. Seeing these riots is VERY upsetting and brings back a lot of bad memories personally, its hard, not only for me, but others who have experienced the same.

Nevertheless, that fact that ethnics and whites are not living in harmony in our area is VERY unsettling. But there is also another side to this story...

2. "Boy/bloke culture": this is what is TRULY to blame for the riots.

The riots are NOT truly about race, this factor was fuelled by neo-Nazi's and aklso the mdeia at the scene of the original riots who simply egged-on many pissed and aggressive males.

The last few years has seen a rise in glamour culture. For males, especially those younger, this is influenced by hip-hop and gang culture: groups of males hanging around late at night, parading their cars, displaying bravado and being territorial (they sound like dogs dont they?), and then displaying complete lack of respect towards women by honing in on them and expecting positive attention. In some cases, there have been rapes as well in recent years, but these occurred in areas of geographical difference.

Unfortunately, many of these groups *have* been of middle eastern origin, but the ethnic factor is really of little importance. It extends across many cultures of boy gangs: Middle Eastern, European, English, Asian and Indian as well. It just so happens that the Middle Eastern gangs hang out the beaches.

The area of Sutherland Shire where the Cronulla riots occurred, has always been highly Anglo in population. Sydney has an unofficial joke about people from the shire being in their own world and cut off from society, and also leading uncivilised and uneducated lives and being "inbred".

It is hardly surprising then that the gradual differences lead up to this entire thing happening, it was a time bomb ticking away. The thing is, with the government in Australia being so conservative, no one spoke up about how they felt, thus, the blood boiled and the riots occurred with Sydney reacting the way it did.

I dont like the Middle Eastern "boyz", but I do like Middle Eastern people. I dont like English "boyz", but I do like English people. There is a large difference if you get my meaning.

The good thing about the riots is that it has recognised at last the pathetic reality of gang culture. Now when I go about my daily business in my area, police are everywhere to be seen. The amount of trouble has lessen to a huge extent, and locals feel happier and safer. The police have had a massive positive response from locals and everyone feels better because the gangs are recognised.

The true focus now is not so much on race as it is the true cause: aggressive male idiocy (dont believe the media, it is they who harp on about racial tension which blinds everyone).

Just my 2c.

 

[speed]

Ah, Hubster, you have returned. Why the long leave of absence?

 

[MURAI]

All for it? Are you mad?

I happen to live in one of the effected areas (Bondi) and let me tell you it is no fun at all.

One of the best things about my country is that multiculturalism, I love it, especially where I live. Talking to a new person is like taking a plane flight to a new world: it's enlightening, knowledgable and interesting (not to mention, all the beautiful women of all parts of the world who I can see walking down my local streets every day).

However the situation from my POV (as an English-born full blooded Indian who moved to AU in 1983) has two sides:

1. The riots are purely digusting: the fact people want to argue about race superiority in this day and age is absolutely fucking pathetic. I would love to hit every racist and national socialist wanker myself, but I am a pacifist and dont believe in violence to solve problems. These simpletons need to be educated and learn to stop fearing change.

The situation has blinded many into thinking their friends could possibly be their enemies: at my local cafe, people would look with uncertainty at me (I am very tall, light skinned & angular for an Indian person, most assume I'm middle eastern or European) wondering if I was some "anti-white" super wog about to "bring in the boyz and crack some skulls".

I found this very upsetting - I experienced much racism until second last year of high school in the early 90s, and I thought then my experience of racial intolerance would be something I could forget about and lead a happy life. Seeing these riots is VERY upsetting and brings back a lot of bad memories personally, its hard, not only for me, but others who have experienced the same.

Nevertheless, that fact that ethnics and whites are not living in harmony in our area is VERY unsettling. But there is also another side to this story...

I disagree. Multi-culturalism does not work regardless if the cultures there are living in harmony or aggression. I agree with the people at ANUS about this. I know how it is like in an multi-cultural country. I live in Canada where everybody from the world is here. No, I do not have hate against different cultures and races but they're all going to lose their distinct identity within one to three more generations. I'm 2nd generation Japanese and I am concrete with the Japanese language and I always held pride in its culture. But, if I were to have a child here, it's likely he or she is not going to take in Japanese culture. Which is pretty sad because culture is a build up of thousands of years.

There will always be racial aggression and pride. Too bad, it's never going to go away. In Canada, people live with not much hostility (open hostility anyway) with each other. But still whites feel fear against how the Chinese pack with each other so tightly and what not.

 

[LORD_RED_DRAGON]

the riots in Austrailia seem to be pretty much the same as when USA had the "Rodney King riots"

 

[Hubster]

Ah, Hubster, you have returned. Why the long leave of absence?

Hi Speed

Oh I've just been really busy with other things I suppose, and haven't seen too many topics I've thought of entering into... The riots effected my suburb, so I felt like speaking up about it.

 

[Hubster]

I know how it is like in an multi-cultural country. I live in Canada where everybody from the world is here. No, I do not have hate against different cultures and races but they're all going to lose their distinct identity within one to three more generations. I'm 2nd generation Japanese and I am concrete with the Japanese language and I always held pride in its culture. But, if I were to have a child here, it's likely he or she is not going to take in Japanese culture. Which is pretty sad because culture is a build up of thousands of years.

I understand where you're coming from and agree in part. However, I have simply chosen to accept that races WILL mix. Cultures can continue though, as long as there is education. I know optimism can be somewhat daft at times, but how can we move fwd without it?

I know for a fact my kids will be half-caste. It is simply the way of the future - all races are blending, it is inevitable. While I understand culture is important ( I *am* proud of my Indian heritage, but also proud of my partners Italian heritage as well), we cant hang onto the past. One of the beauties of our lives is that we can grow and expand.

 

[SoundMaster]

I understand where you're coming from and agree in part. However, I have simply chosen to accept that races WILL mix. Cultures can continue though, as long as there is education. I know optimism can be somewhat daft at times, but how can we move fwd without it?

I know for a fact my kids will be half-caste. It is simply the way of the future - all races are blending, it is inevitable. While I understand culture is important ( I *am* proud of my Indian heritage, but also proud of my partners Italian heritage as well), we cant hang onto the past. One of the beauties of our lives is that we can grow and expand.

Perfectly stated.

 

[TheAssMaster]

I understand where you're coming from and agree in part. However, I have simply chosen to accept that races WILL mix. Cultures can continue though, as long as there is education. I know optimism can be somewhat daft at times, but how can we move fwd without it?

I know for a fact my kids will be half-caste. It is simply the way of the future - all races are blending, it is inevitable. While I understand culture is important ( I *am* proud of my Indian heritage, but also proud of my partners Italian heritage as well), we cant hang onto the past. One of the beauties of our lives is that we can grow and expand.

Fair enough, but it is not people like you who are the problem. It is those that choose to live in another country, but then want to overtly carry on as they did in their homeland, regardless of the new culture into which they have to assimilate. And "assimilation" is the crux of the issue, when in Rome, do as the Romans do. Anyone who expects to build a little enclave where they refuse to speak the language or obey the social norms of their hosts deserve everything they get, I'm afraid.
And I'm not just having a go at those who can't/won't speak English, the same goes for say, the many English ex-pats who have shifted out to rural France, but because there are so many of them together, don't feel the need to learn to speak French, and are enforcing their English ways onto a grumbling French society. Things like having 2 cars per family, and wanting convenience stores open all hours in every village. They seem to be totally oblivious to the fact that they wanted to go out there to live the slower, quieter pace of life that the rural French lead, yet want to introduce this and that from home, therefore destroying that ideal! When the French kick off, and they will, sooner or later, then I will laugh my tits off at the Ros Bif's leaving their smouldering farmhouses with their tails between their legs. They either want to be French or English, trying to be both is a recipe for disaster.

As for the Aussies, good on them, the fact that there were thousands of people out on the streets astounded me, but at least they had the wherewithal to get out there and protest/riot/ be vocal. Just gritting your teeth, coughing and muttering under your breath about foreigners, in the way we in England do, just means society ignores the problem and pretends it isn't happening. I can guarantee you that over here, the vast majority of people I know will privately express the opinion that this country is becoming swamped with people from all over the globe, and that it has to stop. Many of these immigrants bring absolutely nothing to contribute, apart from expecting to hook up with their friends and family and start living the fairy-tale high-brow standard of life like us English. Of course, in the real world, it doesn't just fall into your lap, you have to earn your keep, so before you know it, there are gangs of disillusioned Eastern Europeans hanging around, Africans fleecing the Royal Mail, Turks cat-calling and intimidating women walking down the street, etc etc. Now our problem here is that no-one is prepared to say anything out loud against all this, in case anyone lays the heinous charge at their feet of being "a racist". So we carry on muttering, and the Albanians pour in..........
The anti-social elements of these groups and their behaviour, is not even really rooted in racial issues. For example, many benefit scams are run by Nigerians, this is fact. But, if a gang of white cockney wide-boys were doing the same, they would be just as despised by the public at large, who would rightly call for action. Crime is crime, regardless of whether the perpetrator is Paul Smith or Abdul Obikwndese. Unfortunately, the label of "racist" is such a terrible thing these days, that no-one really wants to poke a stick into the hornet's nest of cheating immigrants. Safer to ignore it, look away. The problem remains though, in fact gets worse, and one day there will be a reckoning.......

Which is bad for all of us, because inevitably folk will approve politicians who will come in and smash the problem, at the price of also smashing our freedoms. The immigrants who have settled here, and made a success of their business ventures through hard graft, like the Indians who run the Open-all-hours, and who are wholly welcome, will also suffer, because they will all be tarred with the same brush - Immigrant= Bad.
Only then, we will realise we should have been getting hot-headed a few years ago, when incomers started taking liberties and forcing their vastly different social values upon us, and getting away with it.

The Aussies may prevent the kinds of problems we will have over here, by simply confronting their causes, perceived or real, early on before they are driven deeper underground, even if it appears Neanderthal! The fact is, the problem will always remain, despite what any happy-clappy sociologist will tell you about everyone living together in multi-cultural harmony. Get it out in the open now!!!!!

Apologies for the length..........

 

[Hubster]

Fair enough, but it is not people like you who are the problem. It is those that choose to live in another country, but then want to overtly carry on as they did in their homeland, regardless of the new culture into which they have to assimilate. And "assimilation" is the crux of the issue, when in Rome, do as the Romans do. Anyone who expects to build a little enclave where they refuse to speak the language or obey the social norms of their hosts deserve everything they get, I'm afraid.

Can you PLEASE TURN OFF THAT YELLOW! I feel like I'm being force fed giant corn!

Okay. I agree with you on the above point there, especially regarding "those that choose to live in another country, but then want to carry on as they did in their homeland". This is something which I find VERY annoying.

Funnily, on a tangent from your point and in a somewhat paradox to it also, did you know that many of the Lebs involved in the riots carried on about how much they love Lebanon, but have NEVER been there? Such blatant display of idiocy almost has these groups deserving of their trouble.

A (hot) Lebanese friend of mine & myself were discussing this whole thing one day, and even she (who was born in France, speaks English, French and Arabic and has a French accent) agrees that the Lebanese "boyz" here in Sydney should be burned at the stake.

Alas, back to your point once again - assimilation is the crux indeed. I think the wrong tactic, let alone one based on preusumption instead of being queried on.

My view on life, which I try to practice as much as I can is this: "add all knowledge available to your own to increase your own powers". Thus, why not learn a way to BALANCE both sides of one's life as an ethnic immigrant? Why choose to concentrate on one only to neglect the other?

It is amazing just how many people out there fail to realise how much more they can learn by being more open to things. If that's not idiocy, then I wish I could think of an even more condemning term to use for it.

 

[Dän]

Fair enough, but it is not people like you who are the problem. It is those that choose to live in another country, but then want to overtly carry on as they did in their homeland, regardless of the new culture into which they have to assimilate. And "assimilation" is the crux of the issue, when in Rome, do as the Romans do. Anyone who expects to build a little enclave where they refuse to speak the language or obey the social norms of their hosts deserve everything they get, I'm afraid.

Excellent point.
The thing that shits me is, say for an example a group of Muslims moves to Australia from any Muslim country in the world and want to build a mosk but we wont let them because we might want something else instead. All of a sudden we are the racists. But go to their country and try ad build a church they will shoot you.

 

[byrne]

I also live in Sydney, and from an overall perspective believe the "race riots" in Cronulla, were carried out in the wrong way. They could have been a more peaceful protest, but unfortunately, it was alchohol fueled and innocent people were attacked.

One of the best things about my country is that multiculturalism, I love it, especially where I live.

I agree with Murai. This may be fine with you - the multicultural minority who essentially still has a continent flourishing with untainted culture. But from my perspective (Irish decent 8/9th or whatever it is, generation Austalian), Australia doesn't have a culture. Our "country/outback" life is about as strong as it gets, which is not at all representative of what "Australian culture" really is. I don't have a problem with people of other races, religions and so forth, but the fact of the matter is, where *they* all come from, still generally thrives in their original culture (e.g. China, Japan, India, Sri Lanka, Lebanon - wherever*). Australia has had no such chance - we have simply been overwhelmed by exotic cutlures, meaning we essentially have little to no cultural identity.

I don't propose a "white Australia" policy. But there is too much multicultural acceptance here. For too long, the Australian majority has had to be flexible and accepting of non-assimilation. What needs to happen is ethnic cultures need to start accepting that they are no longer in their homelands.

*The reason I didn't mention countries like England, Ireland, Germany, France etc. is because they tend to assimilate. Cultures that are MOST different to ours, don't seem to show any interest in doing so.

1. The riots are purely digusting: the fact people want to argue about race superiority in this day and age is absolutely fucking pathetic. I would love to hit every racist and national socialist wanker myself, but I am a pacifist and dont believe in violence to solve problems. These simpletons need to be educated and learn to stop fearing change.

Wrong. It wasn't about racial superiority. It was about non-"middle eastern" people, being sick and tired of unprovoked attacks and harrassment in THEIR area. Most of the people causing the problems DON'T live at the beaches. They live in the south-western suburbs and travel TO the beaches to harrass people.

The situation has blinded many into thinking their friends could possibly be their enemies: at my local cafe, people would look with uncertainty at me (I am very tall, light skinned & angular for an Indian person, most assume I'm middle eastern or European) wondering if I was some "anti-white" super wog about to "bring in the boyz and crack some skulls".

Well, these people are just fucking idiots. Every race has them unfortunately.

Nevertheless, that fact that ethnics and whites are not living in harmony in our area is VERY unsettling.

I read an article by an ex-police detective, who worked in a number of postings in the police force, which was published in a magazine called "Quantum" (I think). It was about the rise of middle-eastern gangs in Sydney. It went for about 10 pages, so I'll briefly summarise with the following points:
1. Gang problems in Sydney today are largely ethnic. That is, they are not white (with the exception of very few dying bike gangs).
2. Whilst gangs appear to be pretty much purely ethnic, it is only the middle eastern gangs which appear to be harrassing and attacking people based on racial grounds. (e.g. the 3T Vietnamese gang is generally not involved in allegedly "racially provoked" attacks)
3. The middle eastern communities are also the only ones with "elders or cultural leaders" not explicitly calling for a stop to these gangs/troublemakers. Vietnamese communities in places like Cabbramatta banded together to help police reduce and contain Vietnamese gang influences in their suburbs. Middle eastern religious leaders simply say white culture and assimilation problems are the roots of the all problems.

Unfortunately, many of these groups *have* been of middle eastern origin, but the ethnic factor is really of little importance. It extends across many cultures of boy gangs: Middle Eastern, European, English, Asian and Indian as well. It just so happens that the Middle Eastern gangs hang out the beaches.

By "many" do you mean "all"? Fuck, just look at the football team that got into problems with rape allegations and the embarrassment caused by their sexual antics. If I'm not correct - the troublemakers were both of middle-eastern/ethnic background, and IS the team that represents the problematic community I have been talking about. And no, the Craig Gower incident recently has nothing on this. Acting in a lewd way towards a girl is totally different from gang-banging a chick in the arse and being accused of rape.

Also, if the middle eastern gangs are hanging out at the beaches, then where are all the white gangs? Hanging out in Bankstown? Not really. All the areas with gang problems, have significant racial mixes.

Sorry if this offends you, or others, but they are facts. In no way am I saying all middle eastern people are scum and should be shipped out of the country. There are some fantastic things about their culture and some great people I work with and am friends with. It is just that their inflexible culture and concentrated communities are largely the cause of the problematic bad seeds their community is producing.

 

[speed]

I've never been to Australia, and every Australian I've ever met is quite fun and nice; but, I also thought Australians were largely very conservative politically. Will there be a political, immigration-centered, backlash?

 

[Dän]

I've never been to Australia, and every Australian I've ever met is quite fun and nice; but, I also thought Australians were largely very conservative politically. Will there be a political, immigration-centered, backlash?

Australia has had a conservative gov for the last 10 years or so - through John Howard and the Liberal Party- prior to that it was the labors who were in for a while - they are more left winged

i doubt that there will be any backlash from these riots - it was only a small pocket of racsists in an area of sydney that were involved, so anything major to come out of this is no all that likely i dont think

 

[Dän]

Oh, and thanks for the compliment about being fun and nice - we really are, its just some ass's like to ruin it for the rest
like with anything the minority will ruin it for the majority

 

[LORD_RED_DRAGON]

I understand where you're coming from and agree in part. However, I have simply chosen to accept that races WILL mix. Cultures can continue though, as long as there is education. I know optimism can be somewhat daft at times, but how can we move fwd without it?

I know for a fact my kids will be half-caste. It is simply the way of the future - all races are blending, it is inevitable. While I understand culture is important ( I *am* proud of my Indian heritage, but also proud of my partners Italian heritage as well), we cant hang onto the past. One of the beauties of our lives is that we can grow and expand.

my mother has almost albino skin with the brightest glowiest blue eyes i've ever seen and one of those gaelic 4-sylible last names that americans can't ever spell/pronounce corectly
my father is the darkest black-skinned person i've ever seen with a skin tone that actually seems a glossy blue-black after sunset so...
do i ever feel inferior to those "pure-blood" people who talk about "white power" or "black power"???
short answer no, i actually feel superior to them
now the lenghthy answer
as a "zebra" i'm uniquely able to see racial intolorence as being as stupid as homophobia and Christianity and those poeple who talk about "racial purity" really seem just as psychotic as the homophobics and the "Christian" extremists that try to shove Christianity down everone's throats

 

[byrne]

as a "zebra" i'm uniquely able to see racial intolorence as being as stupid as homophobia and Christianity

Translation: ACCEPTY MY GENETIC INCONGRUENCE YOU STUPID FUCKING CHRISTIANS!

you sir, are an idiot.