Symphony X's future

[Matt]

While everyone's opinion is true, to that person, I can't disagree with Matthias more. I LOVE the direction SX has gone in, and I have listened to Iconoclast at least 100 times. Yes, I said 100, with two zeroes. I said they couldn't top Paradise Lost, but Iconoclast does, by a small margin. They just get better, tighter, and truer to their own selves, and it shows. I bet if you asked them they'd say they are much happier now that they stopped bending to the whims of audiophiles and started doing what they like. I, for one, am ecstatic. I must not be alone, because their sales are higher than ever. I'm a music snob, and it is Symphony X's fault. All other music is "not Symphony X."

You must not care about songwriting.

I feel that your point disproves itself.
Audiophiles (usually) would prefer the sound on IC over V or Divine. We're asking for something more real-sounding, not over-produced.
The fact that it's selling more isn't proof that it's better; if anything, it proves that it's more mainstream, which is anti-music snob.

There was a time when SX did the same thing to me as they did to you. They were the only band I listened to for a while because everything else paled in comparison. This was before PL.
Now, I rarely listen to them and I've moved on to what I consider better things.

New SX, although I do enjoy it, is mainly for teenagers.

SX not only somewhat lost me in their new direction, but the fact that they've only had two releases since 2002 is also affecting my interest.
PL was not deep enough to retain interest for 4 years, and neither is IC.

Agreed. I still listen to their older albums from time to time, as well as a few songs off PL.

Again, the production is not what makes or breaks IC (or any other album of theirs). I can enjoy incredibly over-produced work if the songwriting is great. Bal-Sagoth's The Chthonic Chronicles is an example of this. Symphonic black metal genius with super tight production.

 

[Kenneth R.]

Yeah. I agree. Too bad the mix/master of Experiment of Mass Appeal was just awful.

Yeah. What a waste.

 

[Phanto]

I think 2011 was a pretty shitty year. Here's my top list from the 2011 thread:

1. Steven Wilson - Grace for drowning
The best of 2011. Subtle and detailed. It has grown on me - past everything Porcupine Tree/Blackfield/Wilson. Very good.
2. Omnium Gatherum - New world shadows
Very solid melodic death metal with a Swanö signature. Best heavy release of 2011.
3. Devin Townsend - Ghost
Relaxing and calm, yet interesting. Doesn't bore. Not a Ki 2, but still very good.
4. Myrath - Tales of the sand
Filled with excellent melodies and catchy shit I can't get out of my head. I'm not much for arab bullshit but it works quite well when it's incorporated like it is here.
5. Amorphis - The Beginning of Time
This album really excited me until I heard Skyforger. After that it feels like a much weaker album. But it's still a great album.
5. Caligula's Horse - Moments from the ephemeral city
The opening track alone would put this in my top 10.
6. Heavenwood - Abyss masterpiece
It's labeled gothic metal but I feel it's more than that. Symphonic and powerful, but not too much of that shit.

The best super-mainstream release was Adele's 21.

I don't even have Iconoclast in my music library.

 

[Postulate]

I don't even have Iconoclast in my music library.

Ha ha, me either...I must confess I never bought it.

 

[Kenneth R.]

You guys are nuts

Iconoclast: best album of 2011.

For you, maybe. It wouldn't make the top 900 for me.

 

[Detective Clarence Beauregard]

New SX, although I do enjoy it, is mainly for teenagers.

While I wouldn't necessarily say that's true with PL, I definitely think they were really going for a younger demographic with IC. Immature lyrics in songs like Dehumanized and Bastards prove it, as do the "we are [...]" choruses of the title track, Lords, and Reign.

 

[Sauna]

They weren't going for a demographic, I'm convinced that Russell is just going through a mid-life crisis or some shit and it's affecting the lyrics. Not just the ones on Iconoclast, but the ones on Atomic Soul, Paradise Lost and Omerta as well.

 

[Phanto]

Innovative arrangements, instruments used (flutes! hammond! mello! violin! fretless; contrabass!), vocal harmonies and strong melodies. Songs that break conventions (e.g. break lose from verse/chorus structures; split into movements/parts; conceptual music). That's what I generally look for in music. A song which is very calm and mellow is not automatically boring to me. In fact, it usually makes it easier for the ear to spot these things I like.

I also enjoy heavy music. But I prefer when that heavy music differs from this: Verse: chugga-chugga riff - Bridge: breakout - Chorus: melodic highpoint of a song. Many prog/power/nu/heavy metal bands and lately SX (iconoclast) are examples where this structure is prominent. That structure, to me, makes for a "boring" song.

Feather from Ghost, or Deform to Form a Star from Grace for Drowning, are more interesting to me than any song SX has put out the last 11 years.

Here's a pretty representative picture of what I've been listening to the last 7 years or so: http://www.last.fm/user/phantomax (I didn't scrobble songs in between 2011-2012 or something, though). I've gone from listening to a lot of Therion, Symphony X and Blind Guardian, to more varied stuff. Less "nuclear blast/popular metal" and more classical, folk, prog, pop, death, black -- more varied music. Because I find the things I mentioned in the first paragraph to be a lot more prominent when looking more broadly.

Here's my top 10 plays of the last 3 months.

Kate Bush – Nocturn
Ghost – Elizabeth
Anathema – Leave No Trace
Green Carnation – Light of Day, Day of Darkness
Kate Bush – Aerial
Ghost – Stand by Him
Van der Graaf Generator – House With No Door
Savatage – Man in the Mirror
Sieges Even – Lighthouse
Ghost – Death Knell

Unless you think all of those songs are really good, then I'm not a good reference, no. I honestly don't think I'm a good reference for many people on Ultimate Metal.

 

[Kenneth R.]

^^^ Couldn't agree more. Throw in weak, cliche lyrics to the "chugga chugga" band and they fall off the map for me.

I love metal. I love it heavy as fuck and vicious. But I too am not a good reference for most of Ultimate Metal's users.

Here's what I wrote in 2011: http://www.ultimatemetal.com/forum/symphonyx/739827-2011-albums-2.html#post10115472 and http://www.ultimatemetal.com/forum/symphonyx/739827-2011-albums-3.html#post10119384

I think a lot of people here on this site in general favor metal bands just because they're metal bands. A scene love thing. Support metal, look on the positive side, don't analyze or criticize too much. Let people have their fun and don't point out anything negative. That's not my cup of tea. Lately, a lot of metal has gone sour from the influence of 'nu metal' and its tendrils into other genres. The whole 'modern' movement is doing to metal what dance music is doing to pop, and they're tangentially related phenomena.

Anyway, for me, music is music, good is good and bad is bad, no matter whose name is on the credits and no matter what genre it is.

 

[prman]

This is what people should remember: some music is good IN YOUR OPINION and some music is bad IN YOUR OPINION. Anyone shouldn´t be surprised that if you have an opinion about something, somebody is going to have equally strong opposite opinion. And both have great argumentation for theirs.

Enjoy what you think is good and don´t dwell on the bad. There´s plenty of great music for everyone nowadays.

 

[Kenneth R.]

Wow now I know you're not a reference for me. lol

Devin's most boring album ever
Steven Wilson's weakest and most boring album.

No wonder why you don't have Iconoclast

But it's okay, we all have differant tastes.
And I love Porcupine Tree

And different ways of spelling differant. Hint: your way is wrong.
I do agree about Devin though.

Enjoy what you think is good and don´t dwell on the bad. There´s plenty of great music for everyone nowadays.

Exactly. This is why I don't listen to IC, and picked up other stuff instead of commiserating.

 

[donKyle]

2011 did give us Omnium Gatherum's New World Shadows

 

[Sauna]

Devin's most boring album ever
Steven Wilson's weakest and most boring album.

No wonder why you don't have Iconoclast

Ghost is on and off, but Grace for Drowning is superb. It's even better than Iconoclast in my opinion too.

 

[Kenneth R.]

Better than Iconoclast is like saying it's better than Death Magnetic. 'Course it is!

SW's best stuff recently has been The Incident.

 

[Marwen]

New SX (i.e. PL & IC) is not THAT bad. Comparing it to new Metallica is bs imo.

Although I agree with what you said about the whole 'modern' movement.

Enjoy what you think is good and don´t dwell on the bad.

+1 I don't see the point from the continued bashing.

Oh and Porcupine Tree is great.

 

[Sauna]

Better than Iconoclast is like saying it's better than Death Magnetic. 'Course it is!

SW's best stuff recently has been The Incident.

For what it is, Iconoclast is among the very best out there (not the kind of stuff everyone here likes, I do get that). The same can't be said about Death Magnetic.

The Incident is good of course, but Grace for Drowning is better.

 

[Kenneth R.]

very best nu metal?

Grace for Drowning is great. I just like the songs on The Incident more.

 

[Sauna]

I don't think it's fair to call it nu-metal, but if that's where you want to place it then it definitely stands above most its peers.

 

[Marwen]

If this



is what nu metal sounds like, then I'm happily a nu metal listener.

 

[ElvenShadow]

Nu-metal? LOL... Ken, I know you have your own, very strong opinions and you like to debate and what not, but that last post just reeks of "bait and troll."