Sorry i forgot you're watching me through your crystal ball and you already know how do i play, how much i'm limited in expressing myself, how close minded i am.
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Sorry i forgot you're watching me through your crystal ball and you already know how do i play, how much i'm limited in expressing myself, how close minded i am.
innuenDO
Pottwahl
Excuse my words, but this is just shit.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Django_Reinhardt
Who on earth knows Conrad Simon or Rusty Cooley and how maby people know Mick Thompson or Tom Delonge?
And I forgot: Jason Becker expresses better than the above mentioned even without a guitar.
children of COB
Deadnight Drinker
Seeing as you completely miss my point I'll go again easier in two points:
1) Why do you call it a bad technique if it allows me/whoever to do what we want as well as you do it using the pinky? IF not using the pinky stopped me from doing something then ok, tell me I'm wrong, but if what "should" be played with the pinky I can play it with ring and middle I don't see what's wrong.
2)I didn't say "more comfortable" for everyone. I said that for some people (count me in) if it's not necessary it's easier not to use the pinky because, once again (and in this I don't mind if you say otherwise, it's not), the pinky is the weaker finger no matter how much you train it.
Keep in mind that I don't say "don't use the pinky". I use it, but I don't use it "because I have to" all over the place, I just use it when I really need it. And like me, a lot of people.
<Arcane>
Active Member
This is bullshit again. How would you like to play slides Alexi often did - f.ex. in the Downfall or Midnight Madness solos? With your pinky?!? Or when you play 12-14-15 and then bend the note on the 15th fret to tab a higher note. Do you bend the last note with your pinky too? I would really like to see this. And again - there is NO right or wrong technique. Telling it's much easier when I always use my pinky is just stupid. The way I and nearly all other guitarists play licks on the higher strings (without pinky) is definitely the easiest way. The only time I use my pinky is when I play fast licks from high to low e.
So this whole shittalk about good and bad technique makes no sense because there is definitely NO standard for good technique. According to your blah blah the best guitarists in the world must have a horrible technique.
But if you still insist on your opinion - fine. But please accept that you're wrong.
1. Not using the pinky will never be as good as using it. We're not talking about sound here, we're talking about the physics of the human body and the tensions created by certain movement. Two completely different movements may produce the same sound but one movement may put less strain on the body and therefore is the superior technique.
2. It's more comfortable for anyone who hasn't practiced with the pinky, a lot of things in guitar start out feeling awkward as hell but after you practice somewhat they feel better. Unfortunately this goes for tension as well, your body can learn to associate tension with playing guitar which is why a lot of bad technique can feel comfortable. Your body has simply been trained to accept that that is how it should feel.
Funnily enough, yes, I can perform both slides and bends using my little finger. However, if you insist on using the ring you can slide the ring finger across to the fret, it's not hard.<Arcane> said:
Can't you read? The standard for good technique as I said earlier: "Correct technique aims to provide you with economical movements with a minimum amount of tension whilst still producing a good sound (usually a better sound and never a worse one)."
Famous guitarists are a poor example to use because they are not the "best guitarists in the world", most guitar players do not get famous for technique; they get famous for the music that they write. Once again, not famous for technique, famous for music.
<Arcane>
Active Member
"Correct technique aims to provide you with economical movements with a minimum amount of tension whilst still producing a good sound (usually a better sound and never a worse one)."
I can get this without my pinky. As Jose said - the pinky is the weakest finger so why should you use it for everything? You are so narrow-minded. Just accept the fact that using the ring finger instead of the pinky is much easier for us. I and a lot of other guitarists can play with the pinky too but we don't use it because it is the weakest finger.
When you talk about human physics you clearly have an error in reasening because it makes no sense to use a weaker thing when you can a stronger one.
I can get this without my pinky. As Jose said - the pinky is the weakest finger so why should you use it for everything? You are so narrow-minded. Just accept the fact that using the ring finger instead of the pinky is much easier for us. I and a lot of other guitarists can play with the pinky too but we don't use it because it is the weakest finger.
When you talk about human physics you clearly have an error in reasening because it makes no sense to use a weaker thing when you can a stronger one.
The pinky may be the weakest finger but it's strong enough. You don't need biceps like Arnold Schwarzenegger to lift a kilo and you don't need the strength of your other fingers to fret notes. The pinky is strong enough and then some.
You cannot achieve the optimal technique without your pinky. Your middle finger isn't stretched away from the index (nor is the ring) when you're 100% relaxed. To use the ring, middle and index on a lick like the one mentioned before you need to stretch which causes unnecessary tension and therefore puts unnecessary strain on the body. Also because you're not using your pinky your pinky gets weaker (same way as an unused leg does) and your overall technique suffers.
Also, lets say you're playing something like this:
E||----14-15-12----15----14-
B||-13----------13-----13----
Playing the parts on the high E with your ring, index and middle fingers is going to be a lot of pointless movement. It's FAR more efficient to just use your pinky whenever a fret that falls under the pinkys domain is used. Stretching your fingers is uneconomical.
Accept the fact that you're ignoring the pinky because you've ignored the principles of correct practice and therefore has a crappy useless finger that can only slap feebly at the strings.
children of COB
Deadnight Drinker
1. No. Just no. I want to see you doing the Zakk Wylde thing
-15--12--15--12-----------15--12--15--12---------
-------------------15--12--------------------15--12-
and tell me you're truly more comfortable doing it with your index and pinky instead of index and ring fingers.
2. You're just too narrow minded dude. I've repeatedly said in my posts that even when you have your pinky trained, there are a lot of movements that many players find more comfortable to be played with middle and ring instead of pinky, like the said Zakk Wylde thing. And once again, it has to do much more with body shape and functioning than that tension bullshit you're talking about. 99% of the cases the pinky is sensibly shorter than the other two, so unless it's necessary (big stretches, etc...) ring finger is much more comfortable. I'm not against theory and tips and useful positioning, but you're just too fond of it and believe you're in possession of the truth because books say so. Guitar playing is not maths. Music is, but guitar playing and instrument playing in general is not. It's a physical activity and it's all about doing what you have to be in the most comfortable way for you. Tips and stuff are just that, tips. They can do you good or you can find them no that useful.
<Arcane>
Active Member
@ Aleksi: I haven't said that I don't use my pinky. I use it whenever I need it. In your example I would use my pinky, yes.
@ Jose: Sorry to stab in your back but I this is a bad example because I play this lick with index and pinky too
15-12
15-12
14-12 and so on... I would play the first two notes with index and pinky and the following with index and ring...
@ Jose: Sorry to stab in your back but I this is a bad example because I play this lick with index and pinky too
15-12
15-12
14-12 and so on... I would play the first two notes with index and pinky and the following with index and ring...
Aleksi what is technique if not a mean to make good music? You can be even a master in your supposed right technique (and i'm not discussin the importance of technique i am discussing the fact that for you exist a right and a wrong one) but if you write like shit, shit will be.
Famous guitarists are not a poor example. They are the ones who live on the stages who play for hours, for days... Trust me, they know if it is comfortable or not.
Again like martial arts it is like a simulated fight in a dojo compared to a real one in the streets.
There is no "Children of Decadence" tab hmm? I might just find it on UG.
P.S.: (life experience)Sometimes(still rarely), I make a awkward move with my pinky like if it was going to fold the other side and it hurts like hell!
P.S.: (life experience)Sometimes(still rarely), I make a awkward move with my pinky like if it was going to fold the other side and it hurts like hell!
Fret
Member
- Feb 4, 2008
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I've been working on this tab for a while, just haven't finished up the drums. http://www.sendspace.com/file/fzttf1
Mystique1721
bass solo, take one
Nice way of avoiding the point I made. You can't hind behind sarcasm forever.
???
Do you even understand what I was trying to say? It has nothing to do with "which guitarist makes better music in your opinion".
Anyways, I'm out.
1. Yes I would play that with my pinky despite the fact that Zakk Wylde's stuff generally sounds awful to me.
2. Again, yes, you have repeatedly said it. However, as I've already said, the body can learn to ignore excess tension because you've always done it that way and you assume that's how it's meant to feel. That tension, even if you can't feel it will be having it's effect on your playing.
I'm going to go ahead and steal Freepower's analogy: tense your arm up as much as you can, so much so that it's shaking, now, try and pick up a tea cup whilst maintaining that tension. You can do it but it's going to be inefficient, wear you out and possibly hurt. So many people play guitar with similar unnecessary tensions and for the reasons I listed above: don't notice it.
The pinky is usually shorter, I know this, yet I have no problem using it. The shortness of the pinky is not an issue at all.
Physical activity has it's theories too, you see all these martial artists that can jump up in the air and kick about 20 plates before they hit the ground, do you think they went with what's comfortable? No, they've trained their asses off learning to use the body efficiently so they don't hurt themselves and they can perform at great speed.
My point was that just because you can write music people enjoy doesn't necessary mean your guitar playing is fantastic. Tom Delonge is a famous guitarist but I very much doubt he's capable of playing 16th note runs at 200bpm or whatever.Alachi said:
Good technique isn't necessary to write good music, I know this, Laiho has pretty poor technique and he writes fantastic music. Good technique only helps you when playing music.
Time spent playing is irrelevant also, I could think 2+2 is 9 for a thousand years and I'd still be wrong. As I mentioned before: the body can learn to accept tensions but that doesn't mean they're not there and not having an effect.
Fret
Member
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What did you think was wrong on those measures? I didn't really see anything, but maybe if you point it out.
<Arcane>
Active Member
The harmony played by the two keyboards...at the beginning and at the end of those measures.
The second note is lower than the first and the last is lower than the second before last
An ARE YOU DEAD YET backing track with lyrics!!!!
http://www.guitarbackingtrack.com/play/children_of_bodom/are_you_dead_yet_(2).htm
http://www.guitarbackingtrack.com/play/children_of_bodom/are_you_dead_yet_(2).htm
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