That Paramore snare attack/distortion - help me out here!

[Morgan C]

Ok, so the Paramore snare has a crazy attack, kind of distorted, which lets it cut through really easily. I sometimes use the following method, it produces a similar attack. I don't know if it's because I'm not using OTB methods, or because my source material isn't good enough, or because my method is flawed, or because I'm not Bendeth, but maybe you guys can help me improve it a little.

Take your normal snare (I know this doesn't sound good, but it's good enough for the example). You can see this doesn't really have a lot of attack, especially after 'mastering'.
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/324723/SnareNormal.mp3

Take this snare, and do the following (this is what I do, anyhow):
-create a send
-transient designer - bring the attack up a LOT.
-gate it, so it's just the attack and no sustain
-Saturate that fucker til it's distorted
-Maybe another gate afterwards.
-Possibly roll off the highend.
Sounds like this:
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/324723/SnareDist.mp3

Blend it in a little.
Here's the kit before: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/324723/KitNormal.mp3
And after: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/324723/KitDist.mp3

And in a 'mix' (again, the mix sucks, I've really done nothing besides levels and fucked with compression, badly). I've brought it up to -6db!! to exaggerate, and the snare is louder than I'd mix it normally. But, you can still hear how the snare's attack is retained. However, it's no longer a smooth attack. Whether you like it or not is a subjective thing. I seriously doubt this would work in metal, however.
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/324723/MixNormal.mp3
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/324723/MixDist.mp3

If you guys have anything to add, improve this, it'd be awesome. I seriously doubt this is how Bendeth did it, and it doesn't sound nearly as good as his.

 

[Pedro Teixeira]

I actually like the result in the mix, although I know that mix is not an example, I never found a need to do this, I thought about something similar, but never found the need to do it, if you carve your mix nicely you can have your snare poking through like a bitch without the need to do this, although if it works then it works and there's nothing else I should say as to each it's own! But I guess it could work even better if the snare was better for example

 

[cloy26]

I love thrice.

 

[giubis]

I think is a very good method to enhance the attack and make it saturated. Maybe a little tricky, but if it works, who cares.

Where do these drumtracks come from?

Giuseppe [giubis]

 

[Morgan C]

Bump..?

Anyone tried something similar, or can improve upon my method?

 

[giubis]

@ Morgan C:
Where do these tracks come from?

Giuseppe [giubis]

 

[Jordon]

Hmmm, I'm kinda digging this idea. I may screw with it when I wake up and see what I can come up with.

I kinda really like the rattle and ring of that "SnareNormal" that you posted. Is that a particular sample?

 

[Josh M.]

I think that's a great technique you've come up with, it definitely improves the attack and helps the snare cut through in the mix!

I can't really think of anything else to add except maybe some EQ on the attack send, just so that you can control which frequencies are kept in the attack (or added); I don't know if that would be necessary though.

 

[Morgan C]

@ Morgan C:
Where do these tracks come from?

Giuseppe [giubis]

They're Thrice stems that someone posted a couple of weeks ago in the main forum. Not sure if they're still available.

Hmmm, I'm kinda digging this idea. I may screw with it when I wake up and see what I can come up with.

I kinda really like the rattle and ring of that "SnareNormal" that you posted. Is that a particular sample?

Would be interested to see how you go. The normal snare is a mix of Slate Dream snare, Slate Custom Snare for the attack/snareyness and a couple of samples I had for the ring.

 

[giubis]

^ What about the kick? Slate samples too?

I can hear maybe a comp pumping a lot.

Giuseppe [giubis]

[EDIT]
P.S.
For those interested, here are Thrice's Image Of The Invisible stems.

 

[Morgan C]

^ What about the kick? Slate samples too?

I can hear maybe a comp pumping a lot.

Giuseppe [giubis]

Kick is just Kick 10Z1. And yeah there's far too much compression going on.

 

[giubis]

^ Maybe EQd a lot also. 10Z1 does not have so much lowend, as far as i remember. Isn't it?

Giuseppe [giubis]

 

[Morgan C]

^ Maybe EQd a lot also. 10Z1 does not have so much lowend, as far as i remember. Isn't it?

Giuseppe [giubis]

Really very little EQ. Some notches at 3-4k, then a compressor, then a shelf on the lowend +3ish db.

 

[giubis]

^ Good sound finally, although the comp maybe pump a lot, as I just said. What comp is going on?

Do you think that this "attack trick" might be applied also on kicks?

Giuseppe [giubis]

 

[wibi08]

They're Thrice stems that someone posted a couple of weeks ago in the main forum. Not sure if they're still available.



Would be interested to see how you go. The normal snare is a mix of Slate Dream snare, Slate Custom Snare for the attack/snareyness and a couple of samples I had for the ring.

what saturator did you use on snare?

I really like the ring of that snare, could you please share it? (if it isn't commercial)

 

[AboutBlank]

Interesting, I'll give it a try after reamping!

Thx for the idea

 

[Morgan C]

what saturator did you use on snare?

I really like the ring of that snare, could you please share it? (if it isn't commercial)

PSP MixSaturator, on the tape3 setting. I also seemed to use a compressor after the saturator, although it didn't do a whole lot, just rounded it off a little.

Samples are:
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/324723/DM5Snare088.wav
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/324723/DM5Rim03.wav

It's like 90% the first one though.

^ Good sound finally, although the comp maybe pump a lot, as I just said. What comp is going on?

Do you think that this "attack trick" might be applied also on kicks?

Giuseppe [giubis]

There's a lot of comps going on man, I'm not going to go into them all because it really doesn't matter.

I don't think this would work on kicks and toms because they generally get pretty yucky when they're distorted. But, prove me wrong! I haven't tried it. Would be interesting.

 

[dcb]

morgan! really nice!
i once posted something similar, but it didnt get that much attention.

http://www.ultimatemetal.com/forum/...chnique-getting-rid-hh-bleed.html#post8366413

this was about working on sustain and attack of the snare separately (applying different eq and compression to both)
your technique is a step further, thats really cool - its a great technique to have the original attack of the snare and saturate that to get massive
attack that cuts through. then you could add a different tail to the recorded snare (a sample) and work on that individually.

more control - i love the whole transient thing !

do you use spl transient designer ?

 

[Morgan C]

morgan! really nice!
i once posted something similar, but it didnt get that much attention.

http://www.ultimatemetal.com/forum/...chnique-getting-rid-hh-bleed.html#post8366413

this was about working on sustain and attack of the snare separately (applying different eq and compression to both)
your technique is a step further, thats really cool - its a great technique to have the original attack of the snare and saturate that to get massive
attack that cuts through. then you could add a different tail to the recorded snare (a sample) and work on that individually.

more control - i love the whole transient thing !

do you use spl transient designer ?

Thanks!

Yeah, I saw your tutorial. Unfortunately I'm only using the free version of the SPL transient Designer - "SPL Attacker", which is just the attack part of the designer and not the sustain part. So I can't really do your tutorial >< The attack portion is a LOT better than others I've tried (ie. dominion) - I like that it makes the attack 'brighter', not just louder. And judging by your clips, the sustain portion is a ton better too.

Waiting to see what people come up with using this technique It really only works for that lowtuned snare, something cracky would sound horrible I'd imagine. And @Giubus, I tried this on a kick and it was awful XD but maybe you just need to find the right situation to use it. I've never liked saturation on kicks.

 

[Blacklight_Studio]

I have been doing something similar very often previously. But transient designer is a very dangerous bitch. I find it vital to clip/limit/compress the peaks going out of the track extremely processed with it. Because if you have them left in the mix you will have LOTS of troubles on the mastering stage and snare drum will go even further away if you want to make it somewhere near -7db. I also used to have lots of seperate parallel compression busses for just about everything: kick, snare, toms, cymbals, room, etc.....Well, several years passed and I try to keep thing much more simple now )) And you know what my mixes sound better. May be it is just practice, but I do not have any more problems with the snare and transients after mastering. And I am pretty much happy with -9 RMS masters, I am not in that RMS racing lap any more )) BTW you have -5 on your example ))