The Abortion Thread

[divine_torture]

yes, if you are any or all of these

a) poor
b) ugly
c) stupid
d) hated
e)black

you should have an abortion, and that is my real stance on the matter.

Fixed.

 

[monoxide_child]

I'm pro-death. Abortion is beautiful, especially late stage. Have you ever seen a video? It's amazing that a thing so ugly can be killed so nicely without even being fucking born. I would love to kill fucking unborn baby scum shit.

I think living people matter more than fetuses. Besides, abortion's legality in the USA contributed to a steady drop in crime.

I'd rather that the fetuses that would grow up to have shitty childhoods and become shitty people not get born. Sure, there may be exceptions that come about, but that doesn't get rid of the problems the others that weren't exceptions create.

I'm pro-life in the sense that if I were to knock a girl up, I would try to influence her to not get an abortion. I avoid the chance of knocking a girl up by not having sex. But that is a personal choice, and I would not expect for others to have to abide by my morality. I do not like abortions in any shape or form because you are cheating a human being of their right to live.

By most people's standards, my siblings and myself were prime candidates for an abortion. My mother was 16 when she got pregnant with my older brother and his father was a dead beat drug addict. My father dropped my mom off in another state to live with her mother shortly after he discovered that she was pregnant with me. When my mom became pregnant with my sister we were living in poverty with my sister's woman and child beating father. My family and I lived in poverty with wife and child beating men in over 20 different homes from the time I was born to the age of 9. Now, I'm 20 years old, pursuing a degree in music, eventually I hope to achieve a master's degree in music composition and theory, I am constantly striving to attain higher in the intellectual sense, and I hope to have children someday. And the thought that my life could have been ended, and should have been ended by many people's standards, before it even began disturbs me.

I would never try to influence a girl to get an abortion, but I would never endorse coercive action to prevent a girl from getting an abortion. It is their life, and they are free to make their own choices and live with those choices as well. However, the state should not be involved in the practice of abortion (or any practice other than defense for that matter). I do not like that my tax dollars are being used for the government to manufacture the social and genetic standards of the future.

i understand what black orifice is saying, but let's be real here, the post black orifice made sounds like it came straight out of one of those "anti-abortion pamphlets" that they pass out in churches every time abortion is mentioned on the news
if black orifice want to actually write one of those anti-abortion pamphlets (or talk about abortion in a full-lenght autobiography) i'm sure he could he could make boat-loads of money that he could donate to some anti-abortion group

but let's be real here
at the end of the day, Black Orifice is really "the exception that proves the rule"
i still agree with the posts of Onder and Vimana that i quoted above
and i still stand by my earlier assertation
there are lots of situations where i feel that an abortion should actually be mandatory instead of merely "an option"

 

[monoxide_child]

in America, there are a lot of women that are in situations where i feel that abortions should be mandatory instead of merely "an option"

if you want a more detailed explination of my thoughts on abortion read what i've already posted in the other abortion thread

http://www.ultimatemetal.com/forum/philosopher/190466-when-does-life-begin-3.html#post10440132

 

[SentinelSlain]

Read this in yesterday's paper:



Thoughts? When do others believe that an infant achieves the moral status of an actual person? In my opinion, I think that "person" is the wrong word to use here. We should use the term "subject": when do newborns become a moral subject?

I don't believe there can be any setting of a universal standard on this; newborns become moral subjects at different points in their development. But, on a moral basis, I have to agree with the British columnists. It's true that a newborn is nothing more than a mass of biological cell formations and instinctual wirings. If it had the capability to steal food from another newborn, it would do so without concern. So many adults I know find this troubling and want to ignore it, because they believe morality to be something steadfast and predetermined rather than something instilled.

However, I don't agree that we can justify the killing of newborns on this level, because the point at which one begins the socialization/culturalization process of becoming a moral subject is truly impossible to identify exactly. I, personally, am inclined to believe it begins almost as soon as the newborn emerges from the womb. As soon as it is inoculated into the process of childcare by hospital staff, breast-feeding, and overall education by its parents (which could even be said to begin immediately, as soon as the mother holds her child) the foundation is set for it to become a moral subject, even if it isn't a functional moral subject, or whatever we want to call it. Since this process of socialization can't be said to begin prior to birth, I firmly believe that the moment of birth still stands as a viable point at which to classify the newborn as something morally different than the fetus.

This pissed me off slightly. When I was arguing with my friend about abortion, last year, I always pointed out how retarded it was that the earliest stages of successful premature birth coincide with the later stages of legal abortion. It doesn't surprise me that the same liberal elitists who have their chins quivering in fear over the prospect that feminism might suffer some blow have come up with this crock of shit. It's so predictable. I bet they've ignored the hell out of a load of studies on the foetal development that didn't show what they wanted to see. They want to try and put an absolute scientifically defined point when a foetus develops into something that has human rights, but it's obviously a massively politically motivated move.

I know people may discount the validity of my opinion based on some of my previous posts on this forum, but I hope someone answers me this; if I'm right in my assumption, the reasoning why the "potential life" of either a foetus or a newborn baby is not something to be considered in the moral debate is related to the fact that a sperm or egg cell can be seen as a partial "potential life" in a similar way and the fact that these have met and developed to a certain stage shouldn't make a massive moral difference. More specifically, the fact that these cells are destroyed by the body in the normal course of life and through masturbation renders the moral dilemma of a foetus's potential life irrelevant. Now, I can see the logic behind this idea but I fail to see how it can be stretched to cover a newborn baby. Basically , the fact that sperm and egg cells are lost without cause for concern (and that the foetus, by this stage could HAVE failed to develop healthily) doesn't really totally lessen the fact that the much hated deterministic even has occurred, the genetic identity of the child is decided, it is healthy, it is no longer a threat to the mother's life and is only societally accepted as her responsibility, there's no scientific reason to say she should decide upon its life. There was a kind of an upwards slope of the potential life, it started as an individual sperm and egg, when it was negligible given the occurrence of loss of these cells in normal life, then the meeting occurred, which was fairly deterministic as far as I am aware and then foetal development occurred and finally birth. Surely it's pretentious to say that there is no change in the moral argument at any of these stages? I suppose, to build on my point I could say that a newborn baby isn't a potential life, it's a life with the potential of becoming conscious human being with a full set of rights and that there is no situation where a comparable being is disposed of without moral consideration either by the body or by man's actions.

 

[monoxide_child]

i remember one crazy guy saying that killing a kid that's about 4 years old is pretty much the same as an abortion, because a 4-year-old can't survive without parents

 

[monoxide_child]

i remember one crazy guy saying that killing a kid that's about 4 years old is pretty much the same as an abortion, because a 4-year-old can't survive without parents

does anyone remember the name of this guy??
can anyone find the article he wrote about how it should be okay to kill todlers??

 

[Blurry_Dreams]

......

 

[CiG]

Why are you necroing 6 year old threads with dots? Delete your account.

 

[viewerfromnihil]

I'm pro-life in the sense that if I were to knock a girl up, I would try to influence her to not get an abortion. I avoid the chance of knocking a girl up by not having sex. But that is a personal choice, and I would not expect for others to have to abide by my morality. I do not like abortions in any shape or form because you are cheating a human being of their right to live.

By most people's standards, my siblings and myself were prime candidates for an abortion. My mother was 16 when she got pregnant with my older brother and his father was a dead beat drug addict. My father dropped my mom off in another state to live with her mother shortly after he discovered that she was pregnant with me. When my mom became pregnant with my sister we were living in poverty with my sister's woman and child beating father. My family and I lived in poverty with wife and child beating men in over 20 different homes from the time I was born to the age of 9. Now, I'm 20 years old, pursuing a degree in music, eventually I hope to achieve a master's degree in music composition and theory, I am constantly striving to attain higher in the intellectual sense, and I hope to have children someday. And the thought that my life could have been ended, and should have been ended by many people's standards, before it even began disturbs me.

I would never try to influence a girl to get an abortion, but I would never endorse coercive action to prevent a girl from getting an abortion. It is their life, and they are free to make their own choices and live with those choices as well. However, the state should not be involved in the practice of abortion (or any practice other than defense for that matter). I do not like that my tax dollars are being used for the government to manufacture the social and genetic standards of the future.

Two things have changed here: I'm unabashedly pro-choice and I only sleep with women who I know would have an abortion if they got pregnant.

 

[CiG]

I only sleep with women who I know would have an abortion if they got pregnant.

Not really a sound thing. I've met way too many women who were pro-choice until they actually got impregnated and then kept the baby.

Edit: well, choice obviously implies keeping a baby, but I mean they went back on statements that they'd abort.

 

[PrincessHades]

IMO if a woman opts against an abortion she has no entitlement to child support from the man

 

[no country for old wainds]

imagine how many millions of dead babies are stained into hamburgerboy's pillow rn. dude is like the world's leading serial killer.

 

[CiG]

IMO if a woman opts against an abortion she has no entitlement to child support from the man

I have mixed feelings. I do think there's an imbalance when it comes to reproduction for men vs. women and the only thing I can really think of that might work and isn't some insane unreasonable men's rights movement autism is that a potential father should legally be able to sign away all parental responsibility in the same window as a potential mother has the ability to abort.

If he doesn't do it in that time frame and the pregnancy goes beyond the point of being able to abort, he should be made to pay child support etc.

 

[The Ozzman]

I want the old BO back

 

[Blurry_Dreams]

in America, there are a lot of women that are in situations where i feel that abortions should be mandatory instead of merely "an option"

i agree with this
if you love penis-in-vagina-sex and you get knocked-up because you're too broke to afford a condom, you're too broke to afford a kid
if a bulky-pregnant woman goes into a police-station and says the kid in her belly is the product of a rape, then an abortion needs to be a requirement for getting a rape conviction
if a woman gets knocked up by her biological father/biological brother/biological son, etc etc, there needs to be an abortion instead of having to explaining to the kid why he's got a fucked up family tree
if the woman likes getting gang-banged and gets knocked up on the day that 8 dudes pumped sperm into her, she needs to just go ahead and get an abortion instead of going on Maury to find out who her baby-daddy is
if a celibate woman gets drugged and the moment of conception is something she can't remember, if a woman gets knocked up on drunken vacation and can't find the father to tell him he's got a kid, if an alcoholic woman gets knocked-up while she's drunk but insistently refuses to have sex while sober, if a woman is strung-out on crack/heroin/meth the entire pregnancy
these kids really just shouldn't fucking exist, these should all be mandatory abortions

 

[Vegard Pompey]

Why are you necroing 6 year old threads with dots? Delete your account.

Idk man, I'd say his post is a pretty good argument for abortion.

 

[Blurry_Dreams]

i wanted to read a couple of posts before i posted my own opinion

 

[viewerfromnihil]

I want the old BO back

Sometimes people grow up. It's just a fact of life

Idk man, I'd say his post is a pretty good argument for abortion.

 

[The Ozzman]

I would say implicit approval of women killing unborn children does not mean one has grown up. It just means they are more degenerate.

 

[CiG]

Idk man, I'd say his post is a pretty good argument for abortion.

And assisted suicide, and murder.