The Cult Is Alive fucking owns

[Wyrd1]

Music is only as good as the ideas behind it. If there aren't any ideas, it can never aspire to anything beyond mediocrity. The myth in metal is that there are "good" riffs or leads or vocals. But this isn't true, the quality of musical expression is a function of the ideas expressed. A riff is only 'good' if it is used to express something, otherwise, it's just some notes strung together to no purpose. Creativity is the first precondition of art.

Sounds like someone is taking things far too seriously. Ever heard of enjoyment. Or is that just a dirty swear word.

Do I give a fuck about art? Not a chance. Do I care for originality, hardly. Do I care for metal, fuck yes.

 

[cookiecutter]

Sounds like someone is taking things far too seriously. Ever heard of enjoyment. Or is that just a dirty swear word.

Do I give a fuck about art? Not a chance. Do I care for originality, hardly. Do I care for metal, fuck yes.

I'm beginning to like you more and more Wyrd

 

[skeptik]

Both of you are just catering to the points that he addresses in his review, just to let you know.

 

[Wyrd1]

Both of you are just catering to the points that he addresses in his review, just to let you know.

Well I am not sure how you expect me to respond. I don't try to intellectualise metal, I just listen and I either enjoy or I don't. I am not looking for any hidden meaning, or trying to get something out of it.

This has been my attitude from day one (back in 83) and I really don't think I can change. Can't music be there to be enjoyed without it being taken any deeper or too seriously. Then again I might just be a simple fellow..

 

[Wyrd1]

I'm beginning to like you more and more Wyrd

Why thank you sir. I am just a simple little guy that likes metal and beer. Seen it all over the years and a great deal of what I say and do is with a tongue firmly stuck in the cheek.

 

[MasterOLightning]

The days of glorifying the metal and beer attitude are over, or at least they should be. The 80s are over, Pantera is done with. That's not what metal is about anymore. Metal ideally has a purpose much greater than that, and that's why HE's review was so critical.

 

[Hyperborean Exile]

Music is not solely interpreted based on its creativity and originality, which has been proven countless times by people of reasonable intelligence actually enjoying music derivative of its predecessors.

Two thoughts:

1. Being "enjoyable" doesn't mean a piece has any sort of enduring value as a work of art. There are some fairly intelligent people out there who enjoy Christina Aguilara's music, but this is a property independent of its artistic merit. My feeling is that, since there's lots of work out there that is of both enduring artistic merit and enjoyable, so there's no reason to settle for something that's only fun.

2. Creativity doesn't require absolute innovation (that is, many creative artists have obvious influences). But creative artists don't simply recycle their influences by rote and they don't operate without a guiding vision of their own.

I don't see how the claim that there are "no 'good' riffs or leads or vocals" in light of the obvious fact that these qualities can be isolated and evaluated.

Certainly they can be evaluated in isolation, but only as to their technical aspects. You can't make qualitative judgments about an element of a work as art independent of its total context. You can take a riff, describe its features, make judgments as to the skill with which it is executed, but you can't comment on its artistic value without putting it in a broader context. It's value lies in how it communicates content.

A particularly poor vocal performance will still be a particularly poor vocal performance regardless of the context.

Not true. A vocal performance as an artistic element can only be evaluated in the context of the work in which it takes place, because its value will always be relative to its purpose. You stick Bruce Dickinson on Hvis lyset tar oss and that's a shit sucking vocal performance. You stick him on The Chemical Wedding and it's brilliant. Context and content are the keys.

 

[skeptik]

But then you can interpret music outside of the realm of art. Nobody is denying that this is an intellectual travesty and has no artistic merit. But that, to me and to many who don't fit into your "dumbest members of the audience" category, does not mean that it is not good music. It is poor in the realm of artistic pieces, but taken at face value for its objectives and its accomplishment of these objectives, and on the most base level of auditory satisfation, I still find it to be a solid piece of music.

 

[Hyperborean Exile]

If your only concern is physical enjoyment, why even bother questioning the review in the first place? It doesn't deal with issues that matter to you.

I don't see any point in evaluating art at all unless you're going to put it in some sort of creative context. Otherwise, we're just sitting around telling people what we like and don't like, which is a big waste of everyone's time.

 

[Wyrd1]

The days of glorifying the metal and beer attitude are over, or at least they should be.

Why exactly? Ok I am an 80's metal head at heart and I am not going to apologise for liking metal.

The 80s are over, Pantera is done with.

Pantera were really a 90's band. Damn why didn't somebody tell me the 80's were over.

That's not what metal is about anymore. Metal ideally has a purpose much greater than that, and that's why HE's review was so critical.

Metal has a purpose? Yeah to be enjoyed. If you need it to fulfill any other requirements then fill yer boots, but other than that simplistic approach you may be a tad disappointed.

 

[The_Isle]

Laeth/Falco/Planetary Eulogy;

how (and why) the fuck do you work through so many aliases?

 

[skeptik]

If your only concern is physical enjoyment, why even bother questioning the review in the first place? It doesn't deal with issues that matter to you.

I don't see any point in evaluating art at all unless you're going to put it in some sort of creative context. Otherwise, we're just sitting around telling people what we like and don't like, which is a big waste of everyone's time.

To a degree, frankly, that is what any review is. There is a degree of fact-telling in all reviews, and then there is the subjective aspect of interpretation where, in an artistic review, the reviewer analyses the broader concepts behind the music, and in a base review, the reviewer analyses the songwriter(s)' ability to write strong compositions, how they're used, integrated, etc.

 

[Nico]

The days of glorifying the metal and beer attitude are over, or at least they should be. The 80s are over, Pantera is done with. That's not what metal is about anymore. Metal ideally has a purpose much greater than that, and that's why HE's review was so critical.

I disagree. I was an infant during the 80's, and I didn't get to enjoy - first hand - a great deal of the music I hold to such a high esteem (of influenced such bands). I find it very enjoyable to be able to see a live show of a local band that plays a style derivative of early thrash or extreme metal, drink a few beers and bang my head, because these are just simple pleasures. I wouldn't listen to recordings of these bands at home much because, as mentioned plenty of times in this thread, it's not as rewarding as something original, but that doesn't take away from the enjoyment I get out of it in the right situation.

 

[Hamock]

 

[Slayed Necros]

 

[Hyperborean Exile]

To a degree, frankly, that is what any review is. There is a degree of fact-telling in all reviews, and then there is the subjective aspect of interpretation where, in an artistic review, the reviewer analyses the broader concepts behind the music, and in a base review, the reviewer analyses the songwriter(s)' ability to write strong compositions, how they're used, integrated, etc.

Obviously. My point is that there's really no point in discussing or reviewing music if all we're going to talk about is "enjoyment."

 

[skeptik]

I agree, but I don't think that not discussing broader, conceptual aspects of a work automatically reduces a review into one of the "I like this, so buy it" calibre. There is a degree of objectivity involved as well.

 

[Hamock]

I agree, but I don't think that not discussing broader, conceptual aspects of a work automatically reduces a review into one of the "I like this, so buy it" calibre. There is a degree of objectivity involved as well.

the effect on the listener is subjective homie

 

[skeptik]

No fuck?

P.S. Nice last.fm

 

[MasterOLightning]

I disagree. I was an infant during the 80's, and I didn't get to enjoy - first hand - a great deal of the music I hold to such a high esteem (of influenced such bands). I find it very enjoyable to be able to see a live show of a local band that plays a style derivative of early thrash or extreme metal, drink a few beers and bang my head, because these are just simple pleasures. I wouldn't listen to recordings of these bands at home much because, as mentioned plenty of times in this thread, it's not as rewarding as something original, but that doesn't take away from the enjoyment I get out of it in the right situation.

I'm probably around the same age as you, and I also enjoy drinking, as well as headbanging when the mood strikes, but this is far from the main reason I listen to metal. It seems like this used to be the main motivation for quite a few people today, and the overwhelming majority of '80s metal fans, and all the brainless Pantera fans of the '90s. I feel like the days of having such low expectations, or maybe I should say simple ones, should be done with. There's a place for mindless metal, but I expect a lot from what I listen to and what I buy. I don't make a big deal out of who did what first like the anus camp does, but place more of an emphasis on execution.