The Death of Audiogalaxy and opinions following its demise.

[CRYSCYTHE]

Actually Tyr I never thought of it in that light. If the band doesnt promote themselves on the net or where ever, then it is their loss if no one finds out about them and if the group on their webpage doesn't put sound files in mp3 format of songs whether samples or full length songs then that is the bands loss,because not many people will buy cds if they havent heard any of the bands material.like myself for instance, living in Australia it is harder to find good metal cds unless I order on the net and I don't
get a chance to listen to the cds in the shop to help me decide so I rely on label sites and band sites to hear the material of bands.
Anyway I have spent too much time in this discussion so you all know how I feel.

 

[yourdeadgroom]

Originally posted by Tyr
Even though many labels treats their artist badly , and they do take most of the money the cd sales produces , you have to remember they are still a necessary evil for the artists signed today. So when you think you're stealing from them , you are actually stealing from us because they calculate all copyright breeches as potential losses , the artists are the ones that in the long run suffer the consequences , i.e. the potential economic growth for the band lessens.

I've always been amused by the pro-sharing people that seem to have this romantic idea of "the record company is evil" and "we're helping the artists", as if this was Robin Hood or something. Anyway, I'm with you 100% on all your points Tyr.

Misanthrope@ There are MP3s on Vintersorgs website, so anyone wanting to hear his stuff doesn't have far to go. Bad example, I'm afraid

And where the hell is the stats that some people seem to have access to when they say stuff like "people don't download entire albums", or "the majority of people buy the stuff they like anyway". Fucking prove it. There was some polling results on a couple of forums here a few days ago, some proper survey that people were raving about saying that downloading increases record sales. I forget the exact figures, but it was like 35% spent more as a result, 15% spent less, and 50% had no change in spending. That means 65% of people were downloading stuff and NOT buying it as a result, yet everyone seemed to ignore that.......

 

[Allison]

Here, I'll paste it here for convenience:

"Places like Audiogalaxy are the artifacts that make you now and then considering leaving the music business, fuck... I work 24 h with composing and still can't even go to the pub for a beer, at the end sadly everything comes down to money...and music don't give me any...so just releasing album after album really tear you to pieces....just imagine yourself working the whole month and at the end of the month your boss/company refuse to pay you for all that work...Mankind is truly heading for downfall!!!!!!
mr V "

That's pretty much verbatim what I think about it too. Except he uses less swear words than I when talking about this kind of suff. I am not a musician, but I damn well support them because without them I wouldn't have any music to listen to! I appreciate them!

And my opinion to the demise of AG - GOOD RIDDANCE! I hope every one of those bastard theft sites fall victim to the same fate.

 

[DeadWinterDead]

Well, I'm not going to say I don't download songs. But I don't burn CDs. I have a list full of CDs to buy, and I am going to. But, I see both points of the thread here. And well, I'd say that places like Audio Galaxy are against the artists. Although, Misanthrope brought up a point. I actually discovered Vintersorg due to Ultimate Metal, because my friend had a Children of Bodom CD that I now own, and I loved it. Well, I checked out their site, and I got onto this site. And I checked out Vintersorg from a downloading place. So, I agree more with Tyr and Vintersorg, but I see all of the points Misanthrope brought up. I am an artist as well, and it doesn't exactly hurt us, 'cause we just get our music onto a computer, and burn it on CD. We still need to get a record label. Just my views anyway.

 

[Misanthrope]

Originally posted by yourdeadgroom
I've always been amused by the pro-sharing people that seem to have this romantic idea of "the record company is evil" and "we're helping the artists", as if this was Robin Hood or something. Anyway, I'm with you 100% on all your points Tyr.

Misanthrope@ There are MP3s on Vintersorgs website, so anyone wanting to hear his stuff doesn't have far to go. Bad example, I'm afraid

And where the hell is the stats that some people seem to have access to when they say stuff like "people don't download entire albums", or "the majority of people buy the stuff they like anyway". Fucking prove it. There was some polling results on a couple of forums here a few days ago, some proper survey that people were raving about saying that downloading increases record sales. I forget the exact figures, but it was like 35% spent more as a result, 15% spent less, and 50% had no change in spending. That means 65% of people were downloading stuff and NOT buying it as a result, yet everyone seemed to ignore that.......

As a result? I love that you went out of your way to evaluate the economical situation of each and everyone of the 65% of those so you can be shure they would buy it if there was not mp3 around. You didnt? too fucking bad next time YOU try to "Fucking prove it" before you trow your crap. Most people wouldnt buy cds anyway cause they are cheap or cause they cant afford it, yet i dare to say those same people are the ones who help sell the locations completly on the tours, otherwise bands would play to like 5 hardcore fans who bought all the cds and know all the lyrics and the like. There is such a thing as casual listeners, and there is such a thing as casual listeners with no money there isnt a 65% lost thats just a stupid thing to asume

And im also glad that you are an internet professional and know for certain that Vintersorg server will work for everyone who wants a sample the 100% of the time. Yesh i mean the best service providers only promise 99.9% of uptime but more like 90% for the average providers, and lets consider the uptime and cuality of each ISP everyone has i guess i should ask Vintersorg for his magical mistery server that is guarantee to never ever fail or slow down.

 

[Misanthrope]

Originally posted by Allison
Here, I'll paste it here for convenience:

"Places like Audiogalaxy are the artifacts that make you now and then considering leaving the music business, fuck... I work 24 h with composing and still can't even go to the pub for a beer, at the end sadly everything comes down to money...and music don't give me any...so just releasing album after album really tear you to pieces....just imagine yourself working the whole month and at the end of the month your boss/company refuse to pay you for all that work...Mankind is truly heading for downfall!!!!!!
mr V "

That's pretty much verbatim what I think about it too. Except he uses less swear words than I when talking about this kind of suff. I am not a musician, but I damn well support them because without them I wouldn't have any music to listen to! I appreciate them!

And my opinion to the demise of AG - GOOD RIDDANCE! I hope every one of those bastard theft sites fall victim to the same fate.

argh! im getting tired of people bitching about it. You tell Mr. V that if he wants to have a boss that pays him to go start playing at fucking weddings. If he is gonna invest all that time an efford he cant blame audiogallaxy because he should had known it could happen. Hell he can as well anticipate the "downfall of mankind" and know that he will have to make an extra efford to be an artist and he probably wont get much recognition and keep the bitching to himself. I didnt wanted to say that but you stupid fanboys piss me off, he is not a hero he is a whinny dumbass that wants everyone to love him, how do you think mark convinced him to join UM? by sucking up to him.

 

[The Nomad]

I don't have time to get deep into this conversation, but I want to. Oh well.

Tyr, I think you hit it dead on. (Although I will admit I'm quite guilty of stealing software...). For me, AG has done little good. Most of the bands I listen to I learned about through friends. But I got lucky because we put together a listening group at University to introduce each other to new music. It's fantastic.

Anyway, with most bands having sound clips on websites, there is little excuse to need file sharing services. If Vintersorg piques your interest, go fucking find it.

@Misanthrope: You said that being a musician was never a viable profession. Actually, from the Renaissance until (I'm totally guessing) the late 1800s or early 1900s, musicians could make a living. But that was through writing music for 1 person usually... some patron or another. Now making a living depends on selling to as many people as possible, and the method money is made is quite different.
There have been laws enacted all over the world to protect intellectual property to make it possible for musicians to make a living. And you don't have much to stand on if you try to say that they're bad laws. Only problem with that is that their near impossible to enforce, but that's a different issue. And thus saying that musicians are idiots for picking their profession is just downright mean and jaded.

Sure, I was pissed at the RIAA and Metallica (and whoever else) when they were trying to shut down Napster (even though I had no love of Napster), but I never thought they were in the wrong. They just wanted to line their pockets more, which is not what I want the rich to do. However, they did a service (IMHO) for those who don't have the resources to take legal action against Napster. Mr. V being a prime example.

I'm starving and going to lunch soon...

 

[DeadWinterDead]

@Misanthrope: That comment wasn't necessary... And I strongly disagree with you at these last two points.

 

[Misanthrope]

@Misanthrope: You said that being a musician was never a viable profession. Actually, from the Renaissance until (I'm totally guessing) the late 1800s or early 1900s, musicians could make a living. But that was through writing music for 1 person usually... some patron or another. Now making a living depends on selling to as many people as possible, and the method money is made is quite different.
There have been laws enacted all over the world to protect intellectual property to make it possible for musicians to make a living. And you don't have much to stand on if you try to say that they're bad laws. Only problem with that is that their near impossible to enforce, but that's a different issue. And thus saying that musicians are idiots for picking their profession is just downright mean and jaded.

Well you dont know me but im mean and jaded so i dont give a fuck. I rather be mean and jaded than being naive and stupid. And you know what i say you cant make a living out of art and particulary music? Because then you depend on sales, you depend on other people's opinion and if you want food you HAVE to please at the very least some of them. That would make your artistic vision suffer greatly not being an expression anymore, or would make you a very hungry man. You are damn right it is unfair and patetic but its the way it is and we all know it. There is a reason why my nick is "misanthrope" you know....

 

[The Nomad]

Originally posted by DeadWinterDead
That comment wasn't necessary... And I strongly disagree with you at these last two points.

And this, my friends, is why quoting is helpful.

does that refer to me or Misanthrope. If the former, then which comment?

 

[Misanthrope]

Originally posted by DeadWinterDead
That comment wasn't necessary... And I strongly disagree with you at these last two points.

Well i dont give a fuck. I thought this forum was a bit more mature and open minded but when it comes to being a fan they go out of the way to follow mr. V with their eyes close, i thought people had an opinion of their own, saying "Yea Vintersorg is right" is patetic useless and makes me feel sorry for that person because his life is empty and meaningless. Everyone is allowed to disagree with Vintersorg and i suspect more than 1 of the people who agree with him is just because out of "respect" to him, whenever they like to admit it or not.

 

[Erik Tiwaz]

Originally posted by Misanthrope


Well i dont give a fuck. I thought this forum was a bit more mature and open minded but when it comes to being a fan they go out of the way to follow mr. V with their eyes close, i thought people had an opinion of their own, saying "Yea Vintersorg is right" is patetic useless and makes me feel sorry for that person because his life is empty and meaningless. Everyone is allowed to disagree with Vintersorg and i suspect more than 1 of the people who agree with him is just because out of "respect" to him, whenever they like to admit it or not.

Then again you might just be saying that because no one seems to agree with you...

 

[DeadWinterDead]

But Misanthrope, I agree with what you recently said. And I see why your nick is Misanthrope.

 

[Misanthrope]

Originally posted by Tyr


Then again you might just be saying that because no one seems to agree with you...

Giving the fact that im posting my opinions here and the fact that i already said everyone is incredible biased, how can it be otherwise?

 

[Misanthrope]

Originally posted by DeadWinterDead
But Misanthrope, I agree with what you recently said. And I see why your nick is Misanthrope.

Make it clear when you address someone then cause i got confused, doesnt matter the opinion stands anyway, but i did thought you were speaking to me.

 

[The Nomad]

Originally posted by Misanthrope
Well you dont know me but im mean and jaded so i dont give a fuck. I rather be mean and jaded than being naive and stupid. And you know what i say you cant make a living out of art and particulary music? Because then you depend on sales, you depend on other people's opinion and if you want food you HAVE to please at the very least some of them. That would make your artistic vision suffer greatly not being an expression anymore, or would make you a very hungry man. You are damn right it is unfair and patetic but its the way it is and we all know it. There is a reason why my nick is "misanthrope" you know....

True, and if I did know you, I probably wouldn't like you in the least. And you don't care about that, and neither of us will lose sleep over it. No problem.

Yeah, being an artist doesn't guarantee that you'll make a living. You need to make shit people will buy. And Vintersorg has. A lot of people have done this. And some of them may not have put out what was "Pure artistic expression" but who the fuck cares. They did what they wanted to do.

Whatever. All I'm hearing out of you is "The artists are whiny bitches because they should've known that their work will be stolen." Should all production of ANYTHING be stopped because people will steal whatever that item is, whether it be cars, cameras, widgets, or fire extinguishers. No. You have laws enacted that say "stealing is bad" and then you enforce them. Same thing here. The laws have been enacted, and then people like you whine that they're trying to enforce the law.
I dare say that you're the whiny bitch. "Oooh, I can't download other people's work for free. waah." Sweet merciful crap, if you really want it, buy the damn thing, or if you're hell bent on getting it for free, do a bit of scrounging.

 

[DeadWinterDead]

Originally posted by Misanthrope


Make it clear when you address someone then cause i got confused, doesnt matter the opinion stands anyway, but i did thought you were speaking to me.

I will. And I understand that your opinion stands, and I think it's cool that you can defend your opinion like you do, although I do't agree. But, you seem like a cool guy. I respect ya.

 

[Misanthrope]

I just like to tell it like it is, cutting the crap.

But well overall i dont care how much i disagree with mr V. i still love the new album ( lets ignore the fact that i have it ) and will be around here more often cause of that.

 

[DeadWinterDead]

Originally posted by The Nomad
widgets

What?

 

[The Nomad]

Originally posted by Misanthrope
Giving the fact that im posting my opinions here and the fact that i already said everyone is incredible biased, how can it be otherwise?

You're also biased. So what? I'm not saying what I say because it'll make Vintersorg (or anyone else) like me. I say it because I've thought about the issue, and this is what I believe is fair.

The next words of your keyboard will probably be "well, life's not fair." And I know that. It doesn't mean I have to make it less fair for others. That's what morals are for.

And if your morals are fundementally different from mine (and I have no problem with that), then THAT is the root of our disagreement, and this is just a manifestation of that.

Anyway, I think we've both clearly stated our points. I don't expect to comment more on the AG issue anymore unless you ask me a question.