The diet choice thread

[Loren Littlejohn]

Since Dan's thread really should just be the discussion of meals that are vegan (and I can dig that), why don't we start this thread as to why to choose not to eat meat.

I didn't want to shit up Dan's thread with what I thought of some of the suggestions on material to watch.

I've read The Omnivores Dilema by Michael Pollan (I enjoyed it), watched several Peta videos, have watched super size me, food inc, and some documentary on Monsanto (Mike Pollan is one of the commentators on this movie as well as food inc), my family owns a dairy farm (they also grow corn, hay, and some other plant that escapes me at the moment), growing up I had several chances to go day labor for counting chickens that were meant for egg laying.

This year I'm gonna give hunting a go and I've undertaken a small garden in my back yard (which hasn't been doing well, shit is fucking dry this summer).

My issue that I take with some of the docs I have looked at is that they don't reflect what I have witnessed locally and on my family's farm (when I say family, I don't mean immediate, my grandfather and 2 of my uncles are primary owners). I've not seen cows laying in their own feces all day (quite the contrary the farm has quite a system for removing shit from the barn for use later in fertilizing fields). They even graze at times during the year. I've never witnessed other laborers tossing chickens around like nothing, and beaks as far as I know are trimmed prior to delivery (it's been some time since I have counted chickens).

Anyhow, I don't subscribe to the idea that animals in all cases are treated in a cruel manner. I don't believe there is anything morally wrong with eating meat if I know where it came from. Do I think that growing fat ass chickens and cows and keeping them in disgusting shit till they are slaughtered for a Mc meal is a good idea? eyeah no, but fuck fast food in it's stupid ass anyway. But it's more of a "that's fucking gross" over a "oh man I feel a connection to that chicken and it deserves just as much as I do."

Peta has a video where they show farm tards shoving a sick cow in for slaughter with a shit scraping machine. My reaction was "oh man, please don't scrape my food across the ground that's disrespectful." It was not "poor bossy." I don't foresee it ever being that reaction.

Anyhow, enough of my stupid ranting. I would prefer this stay somewhat civil, although with anything centered around beliefs there are bound to be a few ruffled feathers.

TL/DR version: I eat meat, I find nothing morally wrong with it.

 

[Trevoire520]

Animals don't seem to have a problem with eating each other, I don't see why humans should. It's just people getting on a moral high horse over something that's perfectly natural.

 

[~BURNY~]

Animals don't seem to have a problem with eating each other, I don't see why humans should. It's just people getting on a moral high horse over something that's perfectly natural.

While I agree with your first sentence, I don't think it's about getting on a moral high horse and I respect that choice.
I know plenty of vegetarians and none of them ever tried to force their opinion down my throat.
A lot of time, omnivores (like me) tend to get aggressive very quickly over vegetarianism though.
Also there's a lot of things animals do that we don't do. I don't eat my poop for example.

 

[Loren Littlejohn]

I'm trying to get through earthlings without raging out, I'll have my comments on it when I'm done though.

EDIT: Just finished, never mind. Movie makes me want to punch a puppy. I felt like I was watching a Joel Olsteen movie.

 

[SocialNumb]

Da homosexuals eat da poo poo.

 

[~BURNY~]

^^ Hahahaha!

 

[fade_2_black]

HOLY SHIT, hahahaha!!! That video is fucking hilarious

 

[crillemannen]

^
HAHAHA

 

[Loren Littlejohn]

 

[Mutant]

1. Morals:
a) Some people eat people.
b) Some people eat monkeys and apes.
c) Some people eat puppies and kittens.
d) Some people eat pigs and cows (pigs are more intelligent than dogs).
e) Some people eat fish and seafood.
f) Some people eat only vegetables and nonliving animal products like milk and eggs.
It is a moral scale and i guess most of you are on level "d" while i am on level "e" and few here are on level "f".

2. Taste:
a) Try to cook a piece of beef without adding any herbs and spices... it will smell like old homeless guys socks... (i know this from cooking meat for my dog)
b) Even with proper spices the taste is still not my cup of tea.

3. Health:
a) Saturated fatty acids from all animal producs (including milk and eggs) plus bad cholesterol will clog your veins and give you a heart attack.
b) In the western world most meat products are contaminated with hormones and other not exactly beneficial to human health substances the farmer will inject his livestock with.

 

[ratsapprentice]

Also there's a lot of things animals do that we don't do. I don't eat my poop for example.

Two Girls One Cup.

 

[Loren Littlejohn]

Two Girls One Cup.

touchet.

Crack is one hell of a drug aint it?

 

[Damian B]

I don't have a moral problem with eating meat in and of itself (which might be a rare opinion for someone who chooses a vegan diet), but I do have a problem with the way we've "Americanized" it - in the US of course. Corporate lobbies rake in government subsidies for meat and dairy, we keep animals in such poor conditions that the only way we can keep them alive is by pumping them full of antibiotics and growth hormones. rBGH, which is banned in most of Europe, is still used on mass-scale dairy farms - it's a known carcinogen. Almost all of the milk in the United States contains it - that includes cheese, and the insane amount of products that contain milk-derivatives (read the labels and you'll see!). In the process we've destroyed the environment in many places. The runoff from factory farms is akin to toxic-sludge - it often gets into the water supply in areas surrounding factory farms. The water in these areas is full of pharmaceuticals and waste from the animals.

Many people try to make an argument from naturalism. For example, "rabbits eat vegetables, fox eat rabbits, coyotes eat fox, etc etc etc... just because humans are at the top doesn't mean we can't participate." I don't disagree, but I think the truth is more nuanced. If you're making an argument from naturalism, you have to consider all of the factors. These animals are biologically driven to do certain things, and play a certain role in the food chain. Animals feel pain, some have emotions, but in their natural habitat they are fulfilling their role, and for lack of a better term they are "happy," or are at least able to fulfill a natural duty. What we do with animals, at least in the United States, is in no way natural. These animals are miserable from birth to death. They are in pain. They are fulfilling no natural purpose. They simply exist for our greed and exploitation. If you don't believe me, watch . The only way to get around the naturalism problem is to retreat to nihilism. Nothing has a purpose, nothing has value, take what you can before you die. Who cares if others suffer?

For me personally, I don't have a problem with free-range, local, organic meat consumption - but, the health (and cost) benefits of not eating meat are enough for me forgo it entirely.

 

[Mutant]

Oh and one more !

4. Knowledge about evolution and origins of man.
Everyone that wasn't brainwashed into thinking that some uber being created us from ash some 6000 years ago, knows that if we go back to 100 million years ago you will see living organisms you would not have moral troubles eating... but some of these organisms could be ancestors of human kind.
Now lets imagine that once human civilization evolves enough to leave this planet or even this dimension, then some already quite intelligent animals would have a chance to evolve into something even better than how we are now - then killing and eating them now would be as bad as cannibalism.

 

[Keregioz]

 

[Keregioz]

a) Try to cook a piece of beef without adding any herbs and spices... it will smell like old homeless guys socks... (i know this from cooking meat for my dog)

Ehhh...no.

 

[Atheist]

Now lets imagine that once human civilization evolves enough to leave this planet or even this dimension, then some already quite intelligent animals would have a chance to evolve into something even better than how we are now - then killing and eating them now would be as bad as cannibalism.

What if they evolve into beings that would farm and eat humans. We should eat them all before they do!

 

[Harry Hughes]

I lift weights and aim to improve my body composition.
I eat whatever it takes to get to my goal, be it steak, chicken, rice, potatoes, eggs, milk, whatever.
I couldn't care less about the moral/ethical side of things to be honest.

 

[DanLights]

Animals don't seem to have a problem with eating each other, I don't see why humans should. It's just people getting on a moral high horse over something that's perfectly natural.

Nope. There's very little "natural" in the meat you buy at a supermarket and cook. Until you actually kill and cook what you eat I will have a problem with the "it's natural" statement. You seem to be ignorant in regard to what the meat you eat goes through before getting to the supermarket, there's nothing natural about factory farming.

And Loren, you also seem to be ignorant about factory farming, it isn't a happy family farm such as your family's, that's not what's feeding the world's meat eaters. What you've seen in videos is what happens to a huge percentage of the meat people eat in the developed world, or you're telling me your family farm and all your friendly neighbors' supply all the supermarkets in your area.

I don't mean to sound offensive, or on a "moral high horse", heck I only quit meat a month ago, but I'm trying to fight ignorance about the subject.

 

[DanLights]

I lift weights and aim to improve my body composition.
I eat whatever it takes to get to my goal, be it steak, chicken, rice, potatoes, eggs, milk, whatever.
I couldn't care less about the moral/ethical side of things to be honest.

http://www.veganfitness.net/home/
http://www.greatveganathletes.com/

Want to improve your body composition? You could try not slowly killing you with cancer activating animal protein and also lower your risk to heart diseases in ridiculous proportions: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_China_Study_(book)

I don't judge people on deciding what's moral or not, but myself, I prefer to say I don't want to take part in torturing, killing and eating animals, because I DO find a moral issue with killing.